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General/Other - Jason Voorhees Jason Voorhees General Discussion Thread

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
I think Unstoppable is better than Relentless. The pursuit is usefull and the teleport is very unsafe. I prefer the damage boost and the resurrection feature
I felt that way when he first came out, but as time has gone on, I've changed my mind. I think Unstoppable would probably be better than Relentless if Relentless didn't have "Damned" (the increased damage as his health decreases). But, with "Damned" (especially in a match that goes all three rounds), you are essentially getting a damage buff without having to waste any time on an input. It's close. I personally think both variations are inferior to Slasher and both could really use a few buffs.
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Has anyone thought of the idea of giving Jason a command grab that actually keeps opponents in the corner? Its so annoying when I get a tick throw only to throw them out of the corner and lose pressure for guessing right on their blocking habits. Imo I feel he should have an added input to one of his grabs (if its the back breaker, increase the range a bit and make it not whiff on crouches plz!) control the direction he throws opponent.
 

Syzoth

The last Saurian from Zaterra - Syzoth - Reptile
Before I start some credibility to what I say: 2500 matches fought. 800ish online. 1500 with reptile. 500 with shinnok. About a hundred with a few others. I'm 20 years old. I've been playing MK since MK2 on the SNES. I like to counter pick against people. I like adapting to people's strategies and take pride in my efficiency.
I know many will say I still don't know what I'm talking about.
I am furious and irate (extremely salty) at this pay to win bullshit.



Why is Jason (a 7 foot tall 300+ pound behemoth of a man) whom is famous for walking extremely slowly and killing people who have fallen or hidden (when you could easily flee) SO UNBELIEVABLY FASTER AND STRONGER than the last remaining Saurian - sole survivor of his species genocide. Reptile is supposedly so fast he can move at 2-3x the speed of his opponent (his nimble ability) Yet Tanya. An Edenian and Jason, a revenant of a child can attack so much faster so much harder.


I AM NOT A TURTLE! There is no shell on my back, weighing me down. Jason however is soaked down with years of being in a lake. His saturated clothes have to weigh down that fat man. But nah. He's coming for you and there's nothing you can do. For one bar he can armor across over half of the screen and god forbid it hits you. That's 22%. Look out for his really complex combos. They require much skill and precision but god forbid you do run into a Jason player. Brace yourself because they're legendary.

So you've been searching for a player/ranked match for about 7 minutes. Finally. Somebody. They're yellow bar but so are most opponents. It's all you've gotten and you're sick of waiting. Besides this noob is using the default player card. This is a free win.

But turns out... Jason players are really good.

Some of them can do this sick string. That is a low stomp, followed by an overhead slice. These attacks are advancing and they hit a crazy range. The slash also works as a make shift anti air. Should it hit you cause NRS is too stubborn to fix their netcode, or your fighting somebody who lives in antartica. (Though more than likely both) This string is unblockable. Choose the low or the overhead then watch in despair as this is done 3 times in a row totaling a third of your life. You've been dragged much closer (or should you find yourself unfortunate) into the corner. Now quick. You can't teleport cause you aren't that cool. What do you do? No time to think. You're being down 3 or 4'd. And Either way it's blockstunning you so they can do it repeatedly until they decide it's time for a stomp slice repetition. CRAP! That combo twice plus a few blocked low pokes means you're down to 20-30% health! Oh well. Reptile has good pressure if you can get in. So maybe we'll just use a reaching attack of our own and interrupt his string. But he armors. At the cost of one bar, he takes almost all or all of your health with a 22% totally fair and respectable special. Oh well. What's one round? It takes time to adapt to an opponents strategy. Especially when a character has the range of Kung Jin with the power of Torr. I like the threat of extinction. It keeps me dangerous.

Round 2. FIGHT! Jason leaps into the air like a frog cause his dexterity makes Reptile look like the half ton man. I slide beneath him cause I was hoping to set the pace with a first low hit. Jason is slashing his machete overhead repeatedly stretching ever closer to me. I jump up in the air with a kick. Surely I can get a well placed longes-range-availiable attack in here to turn the tide. Nah. Machete is much faster than my foot. Pop up. Cause why not start there? Stomp. Slice. Stomp. Slice. Have I been here before? I think I've been here before. Back roll away. I leap into the air first trying to touch Mr. Behemoth just to see if I can. Unfortunately he hits me with an uppercut long before I reach him. Land on my back. Get right to my feet. Hockey player leaps again. Well. I think he had the right idea earlier. Uppercut. But the range and speed of his attack demolishes the slow reptile. Less than half hp left. Brutal. Fire a fast acid ball followed by a slow one in it's shadow. Suddenly a machete comes flying into my skull before I can run up behind my acid ball and my first projectile bounces off his chest. Well I can't block and punish because of latency invincibility. I can't win this projectile trade. It's time to sprint in and flinch this mute out. Make him regret miming me to death. I sprint in. Land a low to med, slide. overhead, poke poke, grab. Beautiful. Almost 40%. Block cause he'll surely wake up. He does. and unbelievable I get in the punish. This time his wake up shoulder charge kills me off.

Lets fight him again. Fluke. Surely eventually I can beat a guy that only has stomp slice, uppercut, jumping 1 and armored special? Cause I have an armored slide that does like 5-8%.. and my spit does 5%. My overhead claw is armored (and not overhead despite it being well over my head) when I EX it and bounces him up. Unfortunately that theory falls to lots of poking, his armor being greater than mine. Unblockable strings. And ofcourse stomping and slicing. I fail to ever get in because of his range and only take rounds based on his foolishness. Oh and I definitely never get brutalitied by his easy as Hell to do Enhanced slash thing.

You get what I'm saying right? I know how to play as Reptile. I'm not some scrub. I've got a 70-80% online ratio with him and a 90% offline. That's 1500 fights or more as I said earlier. I know all his highest damage combos. I know his poke ranges. I know his pressure game. I can swallow people whole and I have. Still I lose to people that pay for an additional character who's simple stats demolish one of the characters I paid 60 dollars for. Not only does he have better brutalities, damage, specials, variations, and frames than I do but he also gets a very solid x ray that does more damage. I've beat Jasons before. But I've lost to several as well. These aren't skilled players outwitting me. They're monkeys pressing the same buttons over and over again and Reptile seems to not have an answer. I switch to Shinnok who also suffers in terms of speed and damage but usually do better on account of his teleport. It's incredibly frustrating. They wouldn't be able to do this on a good connection or offline. They shouldn't be able to just hit me before I can hit them no matter the circumstance. His outright damage is a monstrosity and if he is meant to deal high damage he shouldn't be faster than I am when I play a quick and light character. It's OP or Reptile's UP. That's a whole thing in itself. If you doubt I can play MKX find me on XBL tomorrow. 5pm-3am (EST) Syzoth.
I didn't even touch on how Tanya is a 9-1 (arguably a 10-0 if you believe in them) against reptile.

I feel better venting though. Going to make my own rant thread about this saying the same thing. Thanks for your time.


TLDR =
Stomp slice, stomp slice, stomp slice. I can't do anything about it.
 

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
The biggest problem is all his specials can be low profiled. It really sucks when you burn meter on choke and they d3/d4 right under it. Not to mention all the strings and specials that are immune to his armored command grabs.
I know it sounds crazy, but I use EXBF3. It has more active frames and may hit them on their recovery sometimes regardless if it's a high.
When expecting them to low profile your ex choke, give it a try.

About grabs
I don't know if I get lucky with it, but when I know they'll keep doing standing attacks, I use EX backbreaker, so far it hasn't whiffed.

Plus a whiffed EX TS is still better than all of Slasher's specials. At least you don't eat full combo if they jump

I deal with these inconsistencies too. They're not solid solutions, I know.
Just trying to keep the crystal lake cool
 
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mhtdtr

Ancestors, give me strength!
You don't know the matchup, that's all. The f42 string is very easy to block even online. I did a lot of times when i play mirror matches. You can avoid the shoulder or ex shoulder just ducking and punish. The Reptile pokes win over Jason pokes every single time, i play this match with a very good Reptile player and Jason cannot do anything with the pressuere if the Reptile player does not miss.
 

Syzoth

The last Saurian from Zaterra - Syzoth - Reptile
Well that might be your case but for a good example of what I'm talking about. look to
2 pros hashing it out. Reptile vs Jason. He lands the stomp slice and armored specs over and over. That's exactly my problem. Always heard Cossner was the best Reptile player. This doesn't make me think so but it's from last month so I'm sure he's gotten better. He also has better luck than I do against a Jason.
 

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
Uuum can anyone explain to me what move Jason does after the jip in 5:19 & 6:03
It seems like a F42, but the animation is different and faster

...or I'm gonna check my eyes

@Rip Torn
@KeyserSoze
 

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
It looked a bit off (slow during f4, faster during the overhead) but I would just attribute it towards glitchy video playback/encoding.
I've seen it in other videos too. From jips specifically...

super cancel :O
 

mhtdtr

Ancestors, give me strength!
Well that might be your case but for a good example of what I'm talking about. look to
2 pros hashing it out. Reptile vs Jason. He lands the stomp slice and armored specs over and over. That's exactly my problem. Always heard Cossner was the best Reptile player. This doesn't make me think so but it's from last month so I'm sure he's gotten better. He also has better luck than I do against a Jason.
It that reptiles is a pro player he shows that he does not know Jason at all, does not block the f42 even at the first hit when it is so obvious
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
It that reptiles is a pro player he shows that he does not know Jason at all, does not block the f42 even at the first hit when it is so obvious
It was day 1. I just posted it was my first experience against Jason. Check the date jeez.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
It was day 1. I just posted it was my first experience against Jason. Check the date jeez.
They saw one vid of you, so they know everything about you as a player now.

I'll bet they even play ranked. (You know, where it counts.)
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
They saw one vid of you, so they know everything about you as a player now.

I'll bet they even play ranked. (You know, where it counts.)
You cant really judge a match up when the players playing it have 0 exp in it lol
 

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
They saw one vid of you, so they know everything about you as a player now.

I'll bet they even play ranked. (You know, where it counts.)
These guys can. They saw it bro. One match tells all.

These guys know because they MK.

:p

One guy specifically said

It that reptiles is a pro player he SHOWS THAT HE DOES NOT KNOW JASON AT ALL, does not block the f42 even at the first hit when it is so obvious
and you start shit talk like "these guys this, these guys that" because of this?

It's not like they bullied you during the time you post here or something
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I haven't been bullied here. Just having a little fun.

Saw one, assumed there were more...
 
Anyone has an idea what to do vs Tanya?

Approaching her is a nightmare with Jason. Slasher seems the way to go right now cause it's less of a pain than dealing with Jason's everything being low profiled.
 

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
@KeyserSoze
I'll start a breakdown on Relentless as I play him almost all the time

TS: tight squeeze - dbf2
TP: temple punch - bf3

Pros:
1) B122 whiff punisher with range AND a pressure tool, as B12 is -1 on block and with some practice can be hit confirmable for not throwing out the 3rd hit and be -8.
I was doing it the other day with sound only

2) TS and its tick grabs. From a jip (a horrible yes, but still) he does 24 into either TS or TP for a setup. The ticks with the specific grab being TS are unique as its recovery frames give time to even punish all three kinds of jumps (except certain fast neutral jump punches) and some backdashes. Armor is the only solid solution, so you can play accordingly by cancelling into TP which can't be ducked or interrupted at this point.

24 is also a launcher so on hit you don't need to cancel at all. Jip + 24 are 3 hits so hit confirming isn't a problem.

3) D1 & D4, raw or with TS
D1 is 8f -2 on block t-rex poke which tick grabs with both throw specials. Being a down poke though, cancel advantage is not enough for a true tick grab with TS.
So, D1 on block --> opp starts string --> d1~dbf1 next time --> opp ducks or waits --> d1~TS --> opp interrupts with down poke --> d1, walk back a little (some chars will whiff, Jason's turn again)

D4 is 16 f, but the range and the true tick grab make up for it. The best solution for ppl who low profile a lot, this move should always be canceled into TS, as even on hit you are a few frames + and in your opp's face. It can be used for counter poking and tight spacing or a followup from a D1 on hit.

4) 111 is a common string, but Slasher has 122 anyway, so Relentless ends up using it more.
111 is a move with many uses, so I'll just mention its properties.
1 is 9f, 10f recovery = you can whiff it almost free, also +2 on block in any case it's blocked cause it's a high.
11 advances a bit, is mid and safe
111 advances further, solid mid = can't be low profiled (8 active frames also). On block, TP after is a jail, on hit DF1 is a combo which leads to 20% without any bonus dmg

5) The passive dmg increase in a 3rd round makes up for non armor launchers as any ex becomes 25% and the once mediocre meterless combos are around 30%

6) A combination of
pursuit
lake mist/ex lake mist
exTP
create a decent anti zoning game (not for kenshi and kano though)

Cons:
1) B122 hitbox inconsistencies. So far the only thing I can afford to do is to check all characters' crouch block to see which parts of the string whiff.

2) reversal & wake up hitbox inconsistencies. Two high specials, two mids, with choke being low profiled a lot and TS losing to either low profiles or just throw immune moves. Sometimes the best ex is lake mist.

3) no true anti air apart from B2 in specific cases (exTP for anti cross up)

I think I covered a lot

Slasher coming up next, except if you want to write about him

Edit: I would like feedback from others also. We're comparing Relentless to Slasher
 
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Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
I haven't been bullied here. Just having a little fun.

Saw one, assumed there were more...
Haha alright, sry for being stiff
Anyone has an idea what to do vs Tanya?

Approaching her is a nightmare with Jason. Slasher seems the way to go right now cause it's less of a pain than dealing with Jason's everything being low profiled.
I haven't even played her, let alone face her. Destruction awaits me
 
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Reactions: GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Anyone has an idea what to do vs Tanya?

Approaching her is a nightmare with Jason. Slasher seems the way to go right now cause it's less of a pain than dealing with Jason's everything being low profiled.
I'm thinking if you can make the switch, battle her teleport with your own.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
@KeyserSoze
I'll start a breakdown on Relentless as I play him almost all the time

TS: tight squeeze - dbf2
TP: temple punch - bf3

Pros:
1) B122 whiff punisher with range AND a pressure tool, as B12 is -1 on block and with some practice can be hit confirmable for not throwing out the 3rd hit and be -8.
I was doing it the other day with sound only

2) TS and its tick grabs. From a jip (a horrible yes, but still) he does 24 into either TS or TP for a setup. The ticks with the specific grab being TS are unique as its recovery frames give time to even punish all three kinds of jumps (except certain fast neutral jump punches) and some backdashes. Armor is the only solid solution, so you can play accordingly by cancelling into TP which can't be ducked or interrupted at this point.

24 is also a launcher so on hit you don't need to cancel at all. Jip + 24 are 3 hits so hit confirming isn't a problem.

3) D1 & D4, raw or with TS
D1 is 8f -2 on block t-rex poke which tick grabs with both throw specials. Being a down poke though, cancel advantage is not enough for a true tick grab with TS.
So, D1 on block --> opp starts string --> d1~dbf1 next time --> opp ducks or waits --> d1~TS --> opp interrupts with down poke --> d1, walk back a little (some chars will whiff, Jason's turn again)

D4 is 16 f, but the range and the true tick grab make up for it. The best solution for ppl who low profile a lot, this move should always be canceled into TS, as even on hit you are a few frames + and in your opp's face. It can be used for counter poking and tight spacing or a followup from a D1 on hit.

4) 111 is a common string, but Slasher has 122 anyway, so Relentless ends up using it more.
111 is a move with many uses, so I'll just mention its properties.
1 is 9f, 10f recovery = you can whiff it almost free, also +2 on block in any case it's blocked cause it's a high.
11 advances a bit, is mid and safe
111 advances further, solid mid = can't be low profiled (8 active frames also). On block, TP after is a jail, on hit DF1 is a combo which leads to 20% without any bonus dmg

5) The passive dmg increase in a 3rd round makes up for non armor launchers as any ex becomes 25% and the once mediocre meterless combos are around 30%

6) A combination of
pursuit
lake mist/ex lake mist
exTP
create a decent anti zoning game (not for kenshi and kano though)

Cons:
1) B122 hitbox inconsistencies. So far the only thing I can afford to do is to check all characters' crouch block to see which parts of the string whiff.

2) reversal & wake up hitbox inconsistencies. Two high specials, two mids, with choke being low profiled a lot and TS losing to either low profiles or just throw immune moves. Sometimes the best ex is lake mist.

3) no true anti air apart from B2 in specific cases (exTP for anti cross up)

I think I covered a lot

Slasher coming up next, except if you want to write about him

Edit: I would like feedback from others also. We're comparing Relentless to Slasher
Good stuff, here. I would re-post this in the Relentless thread, as well. When I have a chance (probably sometime later this week), I am going to post a detailed write-up on Slasher (in the slasher thread).

Btw, I think Ex-Choke is a fairly good anti-air, as well.