Jaqui is cancer and needs to be banned

[Trustful_Whale]

I think we should ban all strong characters and characters with some dirt so all tourneys are just Shao Kahn mirrors.

But then you're effectively still left with the most op character in the game.

 

[Obly]

I don't mind white characters when they are well written. If they're well-written. If there was an underlying reason they are in the game other than being well-written I'd have issue with that. Like if Jaqui is a badly written boring character AND nrs has proven to be trying to be politically correct I think it's not a wild assumption that the reason she's there in the first place is tokenism

I'm pretty sure no one wants to start another political thread (oh lordy, please not another of those so soon) or a 60-page argument on race relations... so I'm definitely not trying to pile on, and am more than happy to see this wind down quickly and amicably. I just want to offer an observation.

The problem is that you had any kind of "huh... that's unusual" reaction to Jacqui at all. Like, why is her presence so strange and out of place that it needs an explanation? Why must it be "wokeness", tokenism, or anything else?

This isn't a political or controversial thing to say: Black people are just people. They put on their pants one leg at a time, like everyone else. They're our neighbors, our work colleagues, our teammates, our friends. In a game that features, you know, people, why is it noteworthy in any way that Black people are included? It shouldn't seem unusual at all, right? Jacqui is a person and can be in the game just on that basis. It's fine to talk about whether you like her plotline or think she needs nerfs, but why does it make a hill of beans difference that she's black?

I definitely mean "you" collectively, because this is a pretty common thing across society. You may not be truly racist at heart, but it's worth thinking about why the mere sight of a black woman in a video game in 2020 made you think there's a political agenda to blame. We're never going to get rid of racism until people stop having that kind of reaction, and just accept that seeing a black person is totally normal. Which it is.

 

[Gaxkang]

Idgaf bro just saying that it's not rare for a black dude / girl to be forced by "woke" companies? Is that not true? Don't give a shit if you think I'm racist but that is the truth. And I didn't even vote trump so don't know why I'm giving "trump supporter vibes"

Sure, they can if it's something obviously meant to be...but NRS didn't do that with Jacqui but with Jax, the character who's been around for like forever. And only in his ending where he specifically cites "getting woke", and I guess changes the history of Africa and slavery at least. Some interpreted the ending as black folks dominating the world instead of white folks (as it might get accused), or simply that the African continent becomes like Wakanda or more successful vs. other continents.
Tho the ending neglected the major African role in the slave trade, but well.

Jacqui's ending features her sacrificing her existence for what she believes would be her father's happiness and peace.

There's no real woke angle to Jacqui...the better focus would simply be on NRS' apparent failure in game design, one might suggest.

 

[Pyrosis]

We can just say that all of the kombat kids are equally weak in the writing of them and their implemention in the lore without saying that Jacqui was intentionally made to pander to black people... I don't see there needing to be a discussion further than that about her introduction into the franchise's lore if you're trying to have a good faith discussion about that separate from her gameplay.

Like... you don't have to layer your political or what have you beliefs on top of that discussion.

 

[skahwt]

We can just say that all of the kombat kids are equally weak in the writing of them and their implemention in the lore without saying that Jacqui was intentionally made to pander to black people... I don't see there needing to be a discussion further than that about her introduction into the franchise's lore if you're trying to have a good faith discussion about that separate from her gameplay.

Like... you don't have to layer your political or what have you beliefs on top of that discussion.

I hated the Kombat Kids in MKX with the exception of Cassie, who felt better written than the rest. They gave them all similar smart ass with something to prove personalities forgetting that there are spectrums of personalities, even with young adults. I think they did a good job with Jacqui in MK 11 by giving her a more distinctive personality and a less generic look. Her rainbow jacket is top tier.

 

[colby4898]

No, wasn't directed at you. Just in this general thread.
I disagree with the last sentiment. I feel that the females are generally pretty awesome - it's just the special forces women. I think Kitana, Mileena, Sindel, Skarlet, and D'Vorah are just as interesting as their male counterparts. It's just that a good amount of the women are special forces/human characters, and I rarely like special forces characters (Cassie, Johnny, Sonya, Stryker, Jacqui, etc.)

There are some cool female characters but few and far between for me. I think they seem to be more elegent and "modest" or underwhelming in their design. Which is fine, but need more badass ninja like characters, which is why I think a female Takeda would have been great. Kitana, Jade, Sindel, Tanya, Scarlet are all kinda meh designs to me. Then there's special forces Sonya, Jacqui, Cassie again who similarly I feel are seldom interesting. I like Mileena, Sheeva and D'vorah but that's about it unfortunately.

Compare those to the more unique styles of Scorpion, Kung Lao, Raiden, Smoke, Reptile, Ermac, Fujin, Quan etc I just feel they like an interesting spark. Its just fans, or a stick, or a scream... meh.

Thats just me though haha

 

[craftycheese]

Imagine attempting to clarify your point about being not racist, then sounding even more racist after explaining yourself.

Lol, that's usually how it happens

 

[OwtQue]

@Szkarad Your little explanation sucks and in an attempt to not look racist, you made yourself look even more racist. You were better off not replying at all. Congrats, jackass.

 

[Szkarad]

yikes

Who the fuck says ''yikes" unironically lmao

Spoiler

Um, sweety? I just spent three hours combing through all of your reddit comments from the past two years. and oof, that's a big yikes from me. I literally can't even right now. Oh sweet summer child, you do realize you are making me lose faith in humanity? I'm literally shaking rn. Let's unpack this. It's almost as if maybe, just maybe, your toxic, problematic behavior towards PoC is because someone hurt you. Just shut up and listen. It's called being a decent human being, and as a white person, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.
Let that sink in.

Was that the fictional character version of 'I have tons of black friends!'?

I don't have black friends unfortunately but I wouldn't mind having one. Don't know what's wrong with that?

If you don't even know the "DUDE WITH THE PURPLE SABER" from Star Wars by name, you're not a fan of him. The clownery is unrivaled. Gotta be a troll account for sure for sure.

I forgot his name and would have to google. Mace Windu. Sorry Star Wars has like 50 characters

@Szkarad Your little explanation sucks and in an attempt to not look racist, you made yourself look even more racist. You were better off not replying at all. Congrats, jackass.

Idgaf if some lame ass dude on the Internet thinks I'm racist. I know I'm not.

The point is that I'm not and everyone in this thread is now trying to convince me that I'm an evil racist, a Trump supporter (even tho I didn't vote for Trump), a Holocaust denier and whatnot. Only because I said that Jackie is in this game just so it's diverse because diversity is literally the only thing she has to offer. Peace guys

 

[Pan1cMode]

Who the fuck says ''yikes" unironically

I don't have black friends unfortunately but I wouldn't mind having one. Don't know what's wrong with that?

I forgot his name and would have to google. Mace Windu. Sorry Star Wars has like 50 characters

Idgaf if some lame ass dude on the Internet thinks I'm racist.

The point is that I'm not and everyone in this thread is now trying to convince me that I'm an evil racist, a Trump supporter (even tho I didn't vote for Trump), a Holocaust denier and whatnot. Only because I said that Jackie is in this game just so it's diverse because diversity is literally the only thing she has to offer. Peace guys

What colour skin should Jax’s child have? I’m legit curious as to how you possibly think she’s only in “because of diversity” when in reality it’s the natural progression of the story? What’s Cassie’s reason for being in? Are Liu Kang and Kung Lao Asian “just for representation”?

Also, you can dislike her, but she actually has an interesting character arc in MK11. Her outfits, animations, move set and play style are incredibly well thought out. There are several bland MK11 characters, Jacqui is not one of them.

 

[Infamous718]

Sometimes its just better not to say anything at all

 

[John Grizzly]

Guuyyyys I'm not racist. Never been. I just dont like Jackie, that's it... I have plenty of black characters who I like. Like Jax. Or the dude from Star Wars with purple saber. So yeah. If I were racist I would have a problem with them, right? @NaCl man @Pyrosis @CrimsonShadow @KingKhrystopher

You must really be a massive fan when you don't even fucking know Mace Windu's name.

 

[Pyrosis]

The funniest thing about the phrase:

Only because I said that Jackie is in this game just so it's diverse because diversity is literally the only thing she has to offer. Peace guys

Is that this statement is in itself a pretty inherently racist thing to say. So then by what line of reasoning do you think that the other users in this thread are making some monumental leap in logic when they just presume that you're denouncing Jacqui as a character from a purely racist standpoint?
Like, check this out guy. You don't get to have it both ways...

"Jacqui is only in this game because she's black, so black people will shut up about NRS not adding more black people to the game"
AND
"I'm not even slightly racist, I didn't even vote for Trump hyuck hyuck"

Literally cannot coincide together. Are you the worst piece of shit for having this awful opinion? The most horrible racist I've ever seen? Literally useless as a human being because of this absolutely terrible opinion of a video game character? Nah, prolly not. I live in the South, so "trust me I'm not racist I just got different views ahyuck" boys ain't so uncommon here.

But are you being racist with this opinion about a video game character? Yeah. You are. At least reach down and find the balls between your legs to own it and don't be such a fucking coward. Peace.

 

[MaceWind]

You must really be a massive fan when you don't even fucking know Mace Windu's name.

wat

 

[Marlow]

Honestly mo

Jacqui is definitely top 5 but not broken. I'd nerf her damage somewhat.

I think some kind of combination of nerfing her damage, making her more resource dependent, or making her much more unsafe would be good.

 

[pure.Wasted]

I kinda feel for Szkarad (or, if he's posting in bad faith, the people his comments represent; I know people like that). It's a fact that some companies feign interest in/support of certain causes just to score free cultural brownie points, and it's a fact that in some cases recently that's taken the case of supporting minority rights.

It's also a fact that some culturally conservative-minded people will then use this as a jumping off point to start being skeptical about the motivations of wide swaths of minority inclusion in media. In a lot of cases they'll be wrong. In some cases they'll be right, and they will feel that those cases where they were right vindicate them for being skeptical and cynical generally, ignoring all the times it made them wrong.

Especially because it's a lot easier to prove that a company did it for the wrong reasons (just catch them being hypocrites), than to prove that they did it for the right reasons.

I don't agree that Jacqui was added for tokenism. I think it would have been weird if Cassie was the only kombat kit to return in MK11, and Jacqui added a lot to Jax's story, so it makes sense that NRS would want to bring her back.

But I can see how if someone starts with the premises that 1. some companies sometimes include minority characters for the sake of including them, and 2. jacqui was CRAZY disliked in MKX and her story in MK11 is still pretty bad (she exists mostly to make Jax's story better), cynical interpretations of NRS's motives don't necessarily mean racism. The only thing it necessarily means is a tragic amount of cynicism.

 

[Jbog]

Shes not really broken its the meter system! Imo

 

[Pyrosis]

Mortal Kombat as a franchise has had a leading black character in it since 1993. I just want to make sure we're all aware of this fact as this conversation about tokenism continues.

27 years. For clarifications sake.

 

[pure.Wasted]

Mortal Kombat as a franchise has had a leading black character in it since 1993. I just want to make sure we're all aware of this fact as this conversation about tokenism continues.

27 years. For clarifications sake.

It was supposed to be from 1992, too. Jax was originally in MK1 until he was replaced by Sonya.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Who the fuck says ''yikes" unironically lmao

I would never yike ironically; that would be irresponsible.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I kinda feel for Szkarad (or, if he's posting in bad faith, the people his comments represent; I know people like that). It's a fact that some companies feign interest in/support of certain causes just to score free cultural brownie points, and it's a fact that in some cases recently that's taken the case of supporting minority rights.

It's also a fact that some culturally conservative-minded people will then use this as a jumping off point to start being skeptical about the motivations of wide swaths of minority inclusion in media. In a lot of cases they'll be wrong. In some cases they'll be right, and they will feel that those cases where they were right vindicate them for being skeptical and cynical generally, ignoring all the times it made them wrong.

Especially because it's a lot easier to prove that a company did it for the wrong reasons (just catch them being hypocrites), than to prove that they did it for the right reasons.

Wtf? Yikes.

There are so many issues with this post.. Let's start with this: companies "feigning interest". Giving Jax a daughter is "feigning interest"? The most ridiculous aspect is that if you give a character a son or daughter it's fine.. Unless that character is African-American; then it "might be feigning interest". This is beyond insulting. It's like saying that Liu Kang is "feigning interest" in Bruce Lee.

Let's move to this statement about "Minority inclusion". Including minorities isn't some kind of good Samaritan act, or social movement. It's just "how things should be". I've seen so many comments to indicate that this is something "extra", or some sort of suspicious practice. When in reality, it's balancing out the fact that certain minorities have been disproportionately excluded from being the leading voices and faces of many types of media, for multiple generations.

So anyone transferring the cultural balance that already exists in our society to representation onscreen/in-game is not adding something "extra" or "suspicious". It should have been there all along.

Lastly, the fact that everyone who contributes to an African-American character has to hear some armchair critic start a rumor about it being done for the "wrong reasons" is ridiculous. No one needs an excuse to put any character of any ethnic or cultural background in a video game, movie, tv show, or other form of media, period. We do not need your permission to be included, and we certainly don't want to hear your reasoning for why anyone should 'prove' the validity of that character's inclusion.

MK has been around for almost 30 years. It's time to wake up. We don't have to ask for or justify representation in popular media. It is our right, just like it is for anyone else.

 

[pure.Wasted]

Wtf? Yikes.

There are so many issues with this post.. Let's start with this: companies "feigning interest". Giving Jax a daughter is "feigning interest"? The most ridiculous aspect is that if you give a character a son or daughter it's fine.. Unless that character is African-American; then it "might be feigning interest". This is beyond insulting. It's like saying that Liu Kang is "feigning interest" in Bruce Lee.

I honestly can't believe that you read my entire post and still managed to misinterpret what I was saying so horrifically.

I literally said that I do NOT believe that Jacqui's inclusion in MK11 is tokenism, and went out of my way to provide reasons for why I think her inclusion was narratively warranted. I could not have possibly been more clear. But you read "some companies sometimes feign interest in minority issues" and that set you off to assume all sorts of terrible things about me and the behaviors you think I'm defending, even though I never said NRS is one of these companies, even though I said that the kind of cynicism that leads people to believe this is TRAGIC, even when I explicitly said I believe the exact opposite.

The cynicism Szkarad demonstrates about the upsurge in minority representation in popular media is wrong, but understandable. The cynicism you demonstrate about nuanced opinions on the topic of minorities in popular media is just as understandable, and just as wrong. There's room for thoughts on this topic other than "minorities good" and "minorities bad."

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I honestly can't believe that you read my entire post and still managed to misinterpret what I was saying so horrifically.

I literally said that I do NOT believe that Jacqui's inclusion in MK11 is tokenism, and went out of my way to provide reasons for why I think her inclusion was narratively warranted. I could not have possibly been more clear. But you read "some companies sometimes feign interest in minority issues" and that set you off to assume all sorts of terrible things about me and the behaviors you think I'm defending, even though I never said NRS is one of these companies, even though I said that the kind of cynicism that leads people to believe this is TRAGIC, even when I explicitly said I believe the exact opposite.

The cynicism Szkarad demonstrates about the upsurge in minority representation in popular media is wrong, but understandable. The cynicism you demonstrate about nuanced opinions on the topic of minorities in popular media is just as understandable, and just as wrong. There's room for thoughts on this topic other than "minorities good" and "minorities bad."

I think you missed my point altogether.

I wasn't speaking to which 'side' of the issue you're on. I was speaking to the fact that this is an issue at all, where people feel compelled to give a pass to any character except a minority character, where they then have to judge whether it's "legit" that a minority character was included in a popular game.

The point was, minorities do not want your judgement. And neither do the people who write, voice, and animate these characters. I don't care whether you think it is legit or not; the fact that you believe you have to evaluate whether it's "tokenism" or decide whether it was "warranted", simply because the character is African-American, after almost 30 years of basically having one consistently-included African-American character in the entire franchise, is ridiculous.

It's not "understandable" -- it's actually insulting and reductive that a character should have to pass this 'test' at all based on the color of their skin.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Put another way: if a Native-American female is the face of Far Cry 7, it's not up to any of us to decide whether we think that was "warranted" or should be ok. It's not up to the company to have reasoning for why it is or isn't "tokenism".

That character has a right to be there, the same as any character that resembles you or me. Period. We don't get to sit in our chairs and decide if it's a legitimate choice, whether we'd say 'yes' or 'no'. The fact that people feel they need to question every minority character, even if they decide "yes" every time, IS the problem.

 

[NaCl man]

I honestly can't believe that you read my entire post and still managed to misinterpret what I was saying so horrifically.

I literally said that I do NOT believe that Jacqui's inclusion in MK11 is tokenism, and went out of my way to provide reasons for why I think her inclusion was narratively warranted. I could not have possibly been more clear. But you read "some companies sometimes feign interest in minority issues" and that set you off to assume all sorts of terrible things about me and the behaviors you think I'm defending, even though I never said NRS is one of these companies, even though I said that the kind of cynicism that leads people to believe this is TRAGIC, even when I explicitly said I believe the exact opposite.

The cynicism Szkarad demonstrates about the upsurge in minority representation in popular media is wrong, but understandable. The cynicism you demonstrate about nuanced opinions on the topic of minorities in popular media is just as understandable, and just as wrong. There's room for thoughts on this topic other than "minorities good" and "minorities bad."

Mate, this was a complaint thread about how good this character is and her race was brought up. There was no reason for that at all. It is a racist remark period. The fact that it was basically said " she is only good cause she is a token black cause NRS is woke" is straight up racist.