Match Footage Jade Videos

Discussion in 'Jade' started by Krayzie, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. Espio

    Espio Event Horizon
    Lead Moderator

    I wasn't expecting such an indepth breakdown, I feel like I did fairly bad with this analysis, but I do appreciate it of course. I agree on the down 3's especially, it's not my intention to overuse the pokes. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface with many of my characters, but the more I play her, the more I feel ignorant of how to approach matches, I've been trying to work on mixing up my post flash set ups as you suggested with getting in and such.

    I don't always(rarely if ever) throw out back 1 or back 2 like that. I'm not going to lie, I was a bit antsy, especially given how good Blake's Sonya is and I always try to be one step ahead online because I find it difficult to punish on reaction. I'm not making excuses for doing so, merely that those were my reasons for doing it.

    Also, thank you for the info, I don't get much match up experience against CSZ, nobody plays him that I play except for GuamoKun and Blake.

    Gotta hit the lab and work harder, thank you CJ:).

    Well that makes sense, might as well test the waters, I don't mean to never do it of course. I understand where you're coming from though.

    I love that combo, I'll try it out tonight in practice mode, anything to help her damage output is fabulous.

    Looking forward to future updates, I'll be experimenting more myself maybe I'll come up with something worthwhile for Jade

    As for Kenshi v.s. Jade, the opinions seem to be varied from 8-2 Kenshi; 7-3 Kenshi to 6-4 Kenshi, it's nice to hear such optimism about the match up though:).

    I'm of the opinion of it being 6-4 in Kenshi's favor, but that's just my opinion, I think he's her hardest match up, but totally winnable with the proper dedication. I've played Pig before and I remain optimistic despite him blowing me up, it wasn't hopeless, which is all I was hoping for to be honest.

    I think Kenshi's a great character, but he has holes and weaknesses to exploit as I saw you use a nice ex overhead to get through his zoning for full combo punish with Jade, that's what I like to do as well, seems effective when used sparingly.
  2. LolingOctopus

    LolingOctopus Modest and humble genitalia destroyer

    heres why I think Jade vs Kenshi is 5-5. Most kenshi I play try to zone jade since she cannot glow his zoning. So he's always aiming for full screen zoning. Heres the trick though, the second you have 1 bar of meter you get in. EVERYTIME. Full screen away? pfff, ex-shadow kick. Even if he blocks it, you're at 0, right next to him. D3 and do some pressure.

    what to do when Kenshi is agaisnt the corner but theres a fullscreen distance between you and him? Bait a single move and ex-shadow kick 12 12 12 122. 25% on hit with a single bar of meter, I'll take that yes sir. If you're close to him ex staff overhead will beat everything since you both have armor and staff overhead leads to 27%~ (midscreen) 32%~ (corner) combos.

    Now maybe I'm crazy, but back when I played Quan Chi, 15% for 1 bar of meter was godlike. So when I see Jade can do so much more I'm rather happy.

    also, never break agaisnt kenshi, you need your meter and so does he. It's an armor fistfight.
    Espio872 and CompletelyJaded like this.
  3. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    LolingOctopus How many times have I told them this, and nobody listened *flails arms* . It IS 5-5. d3 12 shuts his close options down if timed right, b2 hits him out of SC, db2 hits him out of anything of his that can be overhead'd and 23f2SPEC puts him in the corner where you just bait his armor and then fuck him up real hard. It takes a Pig Of The Hut (aka Pigshi) level Kenshi to shut down a good Jade.
  4. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    Espio872 You do what I've been doing for a long while, run for your life away from rushdowners because you don't understand your options. You need to understand that you have tools to face them, not just EnGlow. And you have the advantage: they have to get through your defense which defense is not just d3 12 / d3 n4 / n3, but also an outer line of Rangs and then the mid range with the pole. They are not safe from you ANYWHERE on the map except for right in your face, but not even there when you have bar.
    The real challenge are characters who can cross the screen faster than you can react and recover. Play it cool, set up the triple perimeter and you'll see how much your game improves.
    And stop getting your shurikens baited.
  5. Enigma642

    Enigma642 Noob

    I played a pretty good Jade recently. I thought you guys might like to see it.

  6. TakeAChance

    TakeAChance TYM White Knight
    Premium Supporter

    It is not a 5-5. What happens when the kenshi blocks the d3? Oh yea, you are at -3, he can d3 or even spirit charge your now 12f 1. Not to mention, he can catch on that you can duck the first hit of 1. Then what are your pressure options? The days of d3, 1,2 are quickly coming to an end.
    Blackula likes this.
  7. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    Enigma642 Thank you for posting it. Pretty awesome play from you by the way!
    Enigma642 likes this.
  8. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    n3, 4.
  9. TakeAChance

    TakeAChance TYM White Knight
    Premium Supporter

    N3 is 15 frames. Even if you d3 to oblivion he can always spirit charge check it. hell, if he blocks your d3, he gets a free SC to check you. 4 is 12f. If he blocks the d3, or even if he doesn't you will eat the charge as well. The problem is, Jade has no real answer for an 8 frame safe special. She can armour, but she WILL eventually be driven full screen again.

    Kenshi will always have meter (if you spend meter to get in and manage to hit him, you are just building his meter again) and you will hardly ever get any. How do you plan on playing the matchup after you run out of meter?
  10. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    There are no crystal clear answers to situations, TaC.
    If you play Pigshi you really need to step up your game because he's likely a more skilled Kenshi than you are a Jade.
    12 is duckable right into a 4~spec or n3, but you have to anticipate the duck and quack him up for it. Forcing the opponent into the habit of blocking low is the best thing you can do to them. N2 jails in crouch I think, do test this though.
    Your strings can be jumped out of so they are not questions, they are answers. All Jade's tools take a level of awareness that probably people on REO's level have, and you really need to be spot on.
    Jade simply needs to step up her game and fight uphill, but she has the answers to everything in timing and distance where others have superior frames.
    To have meter, sometimes I forfeit a round just to start the next one on 3 bars if I can afford to, and there is no other way. VS Kenshi you really need bar for nothing else but glow. ENKick possibly if you're really desperate but at YOUR level you can really just blockdash most Kenshi imo.
    My honest opinion, Jade's every battle is 5-5. Except Shang and Stryker, she shuts them down HARD.
  11. TakeAChance

    TakeAChance TYM White Knight
    Premium Supporter

    Dude, Pig mops the floor with my Jade. Most of that is because...its pig, but a big part of it is because Jade has NO real options in this match.

    I don't know why you are throwing my skill into the equation. I am just telling you your little d3 strategy is not going to work against Kenshi. I don't mean to come off as arrogant, I just feel like I have explored a lot into this matchup. It's VERY hard. If you think every match Jade has is 5-5, then you need to play better players. Play PL's Raiden. Tell me that is a 5-5, Play Pig's Kenshi 10 times and see if you win 5 of them. Play a stellar ermac, even exceptional smokes give her a really hard time.

    Explore your frames and properties of moves. Nothing that you suggested is the answer against kenshi up close. The only way Jade really wins the matchup is by making a LOT of good guesses mixed with some stellar reads. You can't even cancel a d3 into staff grab...yes, the SC will win against the cancel advantage as well. It's all there in the frames man.

    Yes you can block dash Kenshi, but he builds meter the entire time. If you manage to get to him without him reversing the tables on you, he has the meter advantage from all that dash blocking...he breaks, and you are at midscreen again. EX SC has good pushback as well.
  12. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    That's why. Please don't get mad, I mean well. I'm saying that for once, I'm not drama baiting and telling you that Jade has a fairly good chance in that matchup given you are spot on and you know the opponent and the character. Pigshi is slaughtering you on not Jade's shortcoming but by superior skill and thus your judging of the Kenshi matchup is slightly biased.
    It would have to be somebody who's mained every other character and knows them inside out, picking up Jade and owning everybody with her. Jade is a high execution, high yomi character. If there is a "master character" in this game it's her. No joke.

    Elaborating a bit. In some matchups she can/may/could play as a zoner, sort of. In others she's turtling and the opponent should come to her, and then get blown up in various ways. Kenshi is the matchup where Jade is forced to use her upclose game, hard spot on, and I doubt that there is a single Jade player who knows her well enough to go toe to toe with a high Kenshi player at this moment.
    Please be the one, TaC :)
  13. TakeAChance

    TakeAChance TYM White Knight
    Premium Supporter

    Alright, show me your methods then. Because so far everything that you have stated gets blown up by 1 NON ARMOURED move from Kenshi. No risk whats so ever.

    I presented you with the facts, and the frames. You are firing back with what exactly? Nothing. No substance whats so ever. Jade is good, like mid tier good, and everyone who knows me knows how much I put into her, but she is no where near top 10. She has too many holes. When you play good opponents who know those holes, it makes you play a very gimped Jade.

    I think it's cool that you think it is 5-5, and you are entitled to your the end who really cares? All I am saying is that it would be nice to have a little bit of evidence to back up your claims of this "even" matchup because I am pretty sure every major Kenshi player is going to laugh at you for suggesting it is 5-5.
  14. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    Alright. I have questions for you then.
    1. Which of her moves do you not use based on some preconception? Incorporate and discover them.
    2. What are habits that they figured out? How could you turn those habits around and make them believe you'll do that and do something else to blow them up?
    3. What are points where you lose control of the match? Try to find ways to regain control and be at least one step ahead.

    I'm sorry if I offended you, though. I'm by far not skilled enough to teach you anything at this moment. I'm planning to / hoping to create a local scene this summer if I can manage it, and then hoping that the scene will evolve and with it, I'll learn new tricks - offline this time.
    All I'm trying to say is I realize that being dunked into the dirt can make us feel helpless but recently I've made progress even online with her based on ... some stuff and if I can go toe to toe with pretty good online Raidens and Reptiles (Matchups I used to fear), you, at your skill level, can step up your game and start to find ways to handle your troubles.
    Saying that the character is not good enough is one way to handle it. Not giving up is my way.
  15. Espio

    Espio Event Horizon
    Lead Moderator

    You know how to punish Kenshi's zoning with Jade, love it:).

    That's my basic thoughts on Kenshi's armor as well, use his reliance on armor against him with your own armored tools, the trade is in Jade's favor when both players expend a bar, he might get single digit damage, while you take over 1/4 of his life bar away from him and make him hesitant to throw armor moves your way. This match has to be played outside the box for the win.

    I don't often break against Kenshi, I'm usually hoping that if he does pressure me up close that I can ex glow into 31% full combo punish, sometimes Kenshi players like to deviate from their zoning game to pressure with his rushdown game, which is nothing to sneeze at or if I can I like to back 2 him if I read a jump in.
  16. TakeAChance

    TakeAChance TYM White Knight
    Premium Supporter

    Right, but you still haven't provided any information to prove a 5-5 match.
  17. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    I'll be sure to post a video where I mop the floor with a Kenshi once I manage it.
    I'm sure you'll get there faster.
  18. LolingOctopus

    LolingOctopus Modest and humble genitalia destroyer

    I'm to lazy to argue about match ups... :oops: I'll just post videos and give my opinion from time to time. <3
    Espio872 likes this.
  19. Espio

    Espio Event Horizon
    Lead Moderator

    Overall as long as a match up is not 10-0 I don't really stress about match ups either....provided it's winnable I honestly don't care that much.
  20. CompletelyJaded

    CompletelyJaded Whiffmaker

    I'm not arguing about matchups either, I'm saying, if you feel that you are outclassed it's not the character it's the player.
  21. If you guess everything then you'll beat anyone. But who cares? Nobody can rely only on guessing in his games.
  22. NeoRussell

    NeoRussell Tourny Master

    Where's the beef peeps? Just play her the way you want to play her.
    Who cares about matchups or numbers. If you are good with her, you can beat anyone.

  23. Rampage254

    Rampage254 Ayy Lmao
    Premium Supporter

  24. RTM2004

    RTM2004 Mortal Kombat II

    By the way, very nice video quality you have there. GFAQS <3
  25. RTM2004

    RTM2004 Mortal Kombat II

    Sadly that is true. I've been getting my D3 and 1,2 blown up lately because they jump out of it or duck then punish. However, her Sweep is still very good. Jade is filled with gimmicks. I played a Jade player on XBL recently, he/she was the most gdlk Jade that ever walked seriously tech I've never seen before plus he/she did D1/standing 1 AA reactions online which is truly rare. I just think Jade has been explored entirely and all she has to fall back on are her fundamentals, reactions on reads, space control and her Ex Glow. Other than that, Jade is done at this point.

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