Jade General Discussion Thread

[GLoRToR]

Currently it feels like the optimal custom for her is:
Air Glaive - No brainer, makes 75-80% of her matchups so much easier. Literally one of the best tools in the entire game.
Delia - No brainer, makes all her strings safe for 1 bar, plus on hit unamped. I wish it was db or df instead of bf but whatever.
Vault - Simply too good to pass up. B2124 is nice to have but that's all she wrote while vault makes you able to punish with amp vault off of b2 and that can get you some good damage, it lets you charge at people who walk back all game like an idiot and it punishes zoning rather nicely. Again the bf input is a problem for me but I'm sure that's just me being bad.

 

[GLoRToR]

My mu-chart for the above is pretty straightforward.

6-4 vs anyone who struggles with getting in and doesn't do consistently higher damage when gotten in.
5-5 vs anyone who has a good chance of getting in and dealing superior damage.
4-6 vs anyone who either forces her to get in and do damage, or oppresses her and her lack of a comeback factor gets the better of her.

Her worst MUs currently for me are Scorpion, Kotal, Jacqui, Frost. On the fence about Cetrion.
She shits on Joker, Cage, and a bunch of other high tier characters that others struggle against.

 

[Arqwart]

My mu-chart for the above is pretty straightforward.

6-4 vs anyone who struggles with getting in and doesn't do consistently higher damage when gotten in.
5-5 vs anyone who has a good chance of getting in and dealing superior damage.
4-6 vs anyone who either forces her to get in and do damage, or oppresses her and her lack of a comeback factor gets the better of her.

Her worst MUs currently for me are Scorpion, Kotal, Jacqui, Frost. On the fence about Cetrion.
She shits on Joker, Cage, and a bunch of other high tier characters that others struggle against.

I think the Johnny matchup is definitely not in Jade's favor and is instead even. Jade forces Johnny players to play differently; but those who can adapt to avoiding B2, punishing Glow, and playing hit/run to avoid getting into a Delia's Dance lockdown can hold their own quite well.

 

[GLoRToR]

I think the Johnny matchup is definitely not in Jade's favor and is instead even. Jade forces Johnny players to play differently; but those who can adapt to avoiding B2, punishing Glow, and playing hit/run to avoid getting into a Delia's Dance lockdown can hold their own quite well.

I think she dominates that matchup now that he got nerfed. Back when he was OD it was even imo.

 

[GLoRToR]

So here's what I think Jade needs changed.
Mind you, she's fine without any of this, but this is some QoL.

HURTBOX:
*D4 can get grabbed even when the leg is already pulled back. This needs adjustment. Grabs working on crouching moves is dumb to begin with.
*B3 can get grabbed before the active frames and after the active frames. This needs adjustment.
*Her jump has an extended downwards hurtbox getting hit out of the air by things at heights not plausible. This needs adjustment.

HITBOX:
*B2 needs its upward hit region adjusted so it works correctly as a high even against airborne opponents.
Currently it combines the disadvantages of highs and mids in that it neither hits airborne nor crouching opponents.
*F2, B1, F21, B12 fixed so their hitboxes hit correctly at all heights. Currently they can be avoided by airborne opponents.
*Wakeup U3's downward hitbox corrected so it works as a mid correctly. Currently several D3 moves ignore its hit region.

FRAMES
*F41 to have more pushback/blockstun on block.
*B3434 to have less pushback on block and not to send the opponent full screen on hit, instead it should just create its blockstun/hitstun correctly.

SPECIALS
Parry corrected to match its type of move. It's currently underperforming compared to every other parry in the game.
Vault Cancel to be a part of Vault. Cancels and Dashes should be uniform one single move across the entire roster if they remain so punishable.
Divine Forces MB gap removed.
Vanishing Winds changed into an actual teleport. With Delia's Dance, its low hitting property, and the way it only teleports on meterburn, and its general design is worthless and obsolete. It can be flawless blocked which prevents the teleport from even coming out and having a teleport for 1 bar only is ... not good?

 

[Shale101]

So here's what I think Jade needs changed.
Mind you, she's fine without any of this, but this is some QoL.

HURTBOX:
*D4 can get grabbed even when the leg is already pulled back. This needs adjustment. Grabs working on crouching moves is dumb to begin with.
*B3 can get grabbed before the active frames and after the active frames. This needs adjustment.
*Her jump has an extended downwards hurtbox getting hit out of the air by things at heights not plausible. This needs adjustment.

HITBOX:
*B2 needs its upward hit region adjusted so it works correctly as a high even against airborne opponents.
Currently it combines the disadvantages of highs and mids in that it neither hits airborne nor crouching opponents.
*F2, B1, F21, B12 fixed so their hitboxes hit correctly at all heights. Currently they can be avoided by airborne opponents.
*Wakeup U3's downward hitbox corrected so it works as a mid correctly. Currently several D3 moves ignore its hit region.

FRAMES
*F41 to have more pushback/blockstun on block.
*B3434 to have less pushback on block and not to send the opponent full screen on hit, instead it should just create its blockstun/hitstun correctly.

SPECIALS
Parry corrected to match its type of move. It's currently underperforming compared to every other parry in the game.
Vault Cancel to be a part of Vault. Cancels and Dashes should be uniform one single move across the entire roster if they remain so punishable.
Divine Forces MB gap removed.
Vanishing Winds changed into an actual teleport. With Delia's Dance, its low hitting property, and the way it only teleports on meterburn, and its general design is worthless and obsolete. It can be flawless blocked which prevents the teleport from even coming out and having a teleport for 1 bar only is ... not good?

Vault Cancel to be part of vault......YESS....that's what i've been saying! WHYYYYYYYYY....I shouldn't have to equip Pole vault, cancel, then nitro kick ALL separately for Jaded. I can deal with 2 slots being used but not 3! Would love to have this set up so much!
Vanishing winds is trash in current state and there is never reason to choose it at this point.
Parry....I've been waiting.....something needs to happen

 

[GLoRToR]

Vault Cancel to be part of vault......YESS....that's what i've been saying! WHYYYYYYYYY....I shouldn't have to equip Pole vault, cancel, then nitro kick ALL separately for Jaded. I can deal with 2 slots being used but not 3! Would love to have this set up so much!
Vanishing winds is trash in current state and there is never reason to choose it at this point.
Parry....I've been waiting.....something needs to happen

Dashes and their cancels being a separate thing would be plausible if the cancels were advantageous but they are simply a "stop running into your death" mechanic that should never be plus, but should be a part of the moves themselves.
Also cancel should be blk not dd or uu or whatever it is for other dashes.

And yeah Jaded should be
Vault + Cancel
Nitro
Delia

 

[Espio]

Jade's fine, but people are just kind of dramatic about characters in general and especially her lol. I don't think she needs anything, but I also don't think she's worth crying about, the community has hated her no matter where she is on the tier list so it's kind of just silly at this point. I'm thankful that NRS actually made a concerted effort to buff Jade just right in particular areas so while she doesn't have the over the top damage or insane KB's generally and can struggle to make comebacks and when lamed out, she offsets this with great safety and good pokes/neutral.

I also think the best part of the extra string slot is her sweep and very few people use it, but it resets the neutral on block and almost 10% on hit. It just leaves her in a great position all around.

I think the only reasonable Jade related requests would be making some of her other variation moves worthwhile. The current biggest offenders being: Anti-air glaive, vanishing winds an Divine Forces. These three either make you lose out on a core, strong special like glow, are too situational to be worth a whole slot or are so outclassed and redundant compared to their counterparts (Delia's dance and Pole vault) that there is no reason to use them unless you wanna be different.

Some of the overdone upplaying reminds me of Sindel upplay though, I'm glad the community realizes she's a good character, but the trendy theatrics are a lot right now.


I will say though it's a great time to be a Jade main in 2021 <3.

 

[GLoRToR]

Jade's fine, but people are just kind of dramatic about characters in general and especially her lol. I don't think she needs anything, but I also don't think she's worth crying about, the community has hated her no matter where she is on the tier list so it's kind of just silly at this point. I'm thankful that NRS actually made a concerted effort to buff Jade just right in particular areas so while she doesn't have the over the top damage or insane KB's generally and can struggle to make comebacks and when lamed out, she offsets this with great safety and good pokes/neutral.

I also think the best part of the extra string slot is her sweep and very few people use it, but it resets the neutral on block and almost 10% on hit. It just leaves her in a great position all around.

I think the only reasonable Jade related requests would be making some of her other variation moves worthwhile. The current biggest offenders being: Anti-air glaive, vanishing winds an Divine Forces. These three either make you lose out on a core, strong special like glow, are too situational to be worth a whole slot or are so outclassed and redundant compared to their counterparts (Delia's dance and Pole vault) that there is no reason to use them unless you wanna be different.

Some of the overdone upplaying reminds me of Sindel upplay though, I'm glad the community realizes she's a good character, but the trendy theatrics are a lot right now.


I will say though it's a great time to be a Jade main in 2021 <3.

You're talking a lot of truth. And like I said above, I'm happy that she's playable.
I just can't figure out why I find it so hard to BF2 off of B343.

As for needing anything, she really doesn't NEED anything, indeed.
f0xy has demonstrated on his stream that you can literally win entire sets with B343BF2.

A big "I wish" of mine is Spark being better overall. Pushback on block, bit less negative so you can't get full combo punished as the risk of a 10% reward, and having it standjail off of F2 so F2-spark and F21 are not both high risk low reward, making F2-spark a low risk low reward option off of an already not great normal.
Yeah it would mean they have to FB a 28f normal not to take Spark's full damage but yknow.
And yeah that is not just unlikely but literally not happening.

But like you said.
It's great that she's finally a tournament pick.
And like I said, that's all I wanted for her so thanks, NRS.

 

[Espio]

You're talking a lot of truth. And like I said above, I'm happy that she's playable.
I just can't figure out why I find it so hard to BF2 off of B343.

As for needing anything, she really doesn't NEED anything, indeed.
f0xy has demonstrated on his stream that you can literally win entire sets with B343BF2.

A big "I wish" of mine is Spark being better overall. Pushback on block, bit less negative so you can't get full combo punished as the risk of a 10% reward, and having it standjail off of F2 so F2-spark and F21 are not both high risk low reward, making F2-spark a low risk low reward option off of an already not great normal.
Yeah it would mean they have to FB a 28f normal not to take Spark's full damage but yknow.
And yeah that is not just unlikely but literally not happening.

But like you said.
It's great that she's finally a tournament pick.
And like I said, that's all I wanted for her so thanks, NRS.

I mean against bad players or inferior ones you can do this with any character that has a decent speed restand mid, decent zoning etc. Jade is mostly just footsies, poking and chip anyway so her toolkit is limited while being solid. I don't think that's any different from most of the cast though where you use your core best strings/specials primarily

He also played Kung Lao and Kitana in a similar vein of very basic. Ranked matches against vastly inferior players allows much less nuanced mind games to rule outright. He also played Robocop, Sheeva etc in very cookie cutter ways and won with them doing very meta level one stuff online, that's pretty normal I'd say for the modes being played.


I'm glad you mentioned low spark because it's painfully insufficient overall. Very easy to deal with, very unsafe and if it's not equipped with air glaive it's very easy to navigate. I would add that I'd like spark to have a different input too, it's not that I have errors with it often but seeing Jade do low spark when I could have gotten a back 3,4,3 and die as a result is kinda gross. I mainly comment on this because I've seen top players with Jade get this input error multiple times.

The thing about flawless blocking Forward 2 is that if it gets flawless blocked the second hit of the string or special just doesn't come out and you're left full combo punishable so if they flawless block the overhead they don't have to care about you wanted to do. This would be fine but there's also a flawless block gap in the string's second hit and it is -13 too so it's kinda overkill lol.

I just don't bother with it 95% of the time, I only sometimes use it after I have broken your ankles and heels with lows. Jade having two great and relatively safe ways to chip up close or at a distance makes it even less worthwhile.


This is one of the few times sans one-two characters everyone feels like a real threat, but people still seem very unhappy with some of their characters. I'd gladly play anyone perceived as bottom ten without feeling like it's not worth it at all. I definitely couldn't say that about Jade or Baraka in MK9 or many other characters for that matter.

 

[GLoRToR]

I mean against bad players or inferior ones you can do this with any character that has a decent speed restand mid, decent zoning etc. Jade is mostly just footsies, poking and chip anyway so her toolkit is limited while being solid. I don't think that's any different from most of the cast though where you use your core best strings/specials primarily

He also played Kung Lao and Kitana in a similar vein of very basic. Ranked matches against vastly inferior players allows much less nuanced mind games to rule outright. He also played Robocop, Sheeva etc in very cookie cutter ways and won with them doing very meta level one stuff online, that's pretty normal I'd say for the modes being played.


I'm glad you mentioned low spark because it's painfully insufficient overall. Very easy to deal with, very unsafe and if it's not equipped with air glaive it's very easy to navigate. I would add that I'd like spark to have a different input too, it's not that I have errors with it often but seeing Jade do low spark when I could have gotten a back 3,4,3 and die as a result is kinda gross. I mainly comment on this because I've seen top players with Jade get this input error multiple times.

The thing about flawless blocking Forward 2 is that if it gets flawless blocked the second hit of the string or special just doesn't come out and you're left full combo punishable so if they flawless block the overhead they don't have to care about you wanted to do. This would be fine but there's also a flawless block gap in the string's second hit and it is -13 too so it's kinda overkill lol.

I just don't bother with it 95% of the time, I only sometimes use it after I have broken your ankles and heels with lows. Jade having two great and relatively safe ways to chip up close or at a distance makes it even less worthwhile.


This is one of the few times sans one-two characters everyone feels like a real threat, but people still seem very unhappy with some of their characters. I'd gladly play anyone perceived as bottom ten without feeling like it's not worth it at all. I definitely couldn't say that about Jade or Baraka in MK9 or many other characters for that matter.

Fair point, sure enough, there are factors in winning with certain things and skill difference matters in all things, but unlike ping factors in with Stomp or with Hair Flip, b343bf2 is just good and there isn't a lot a player can do other than hold it.
My biggest flaw that I'm trying to figure out how to fix is I suck at guessing games.
If I could figure out how to get better, I could probably play Jade more successful knowing exactly when to use which option.
Sadly as things are right now, I'm stuck on the demigod-elder god axis when I have the time to play that much.
I'd like to git gud, but no real way right now other than fighting randoms and sometimes getting one dude that doesn't lag.

And yeah Spark is not great at the moment. Here's to hoping.

 

[TakeAChance]

My biggest wish for Jade currently, is to make her parry useable and to "unlink" her polevault stuff from each other. Make the shadow kick part of the cancel special...having 3 dedicated (2 due to slot requirements) really hinders that playset.

 

[GLoRToR]

My biggest wish for Jade currently, is to make her parry useable and to "unlink" her polevault stuff from each other. Make the shadow kick part of the cancel special...having 3 dedicated (2 due to slot requirements) really hinders that playset.

Yeah but having vault, its cancel, and the kick be 1 slot would be insane. I wish but yeah.
Meanwhile I think Cetrion's teleport should be 2 slots so it's not fair for me to want the kick to be added to vault itself.
It's a nice wishful thinking but it's a game balance nightmare.

Making dashes and their cancels the same slot as long as those cancels are not advantageous shouldn't be -that- big of a stretch though, considering Vault is d2able on reaction if you just do it naked in neutral.
Kabal's NDC being a slot is a big questionmark for me because that's not a case of waiting for it, that's a case of will I get stunned for a full combo or will I get thrown for not reacting to cancel.
Yeah, balancing these things is not easy

 

[Hot_DNA]

@GLoRToR b343 into delia dance took me a while too....do delia dance at the last possible second.. it's NOT a dial in

 

[GLoRToR]

@GLoRToR b343 into delia dance took me a while too....do delia dance at the last possible second.. it's NOT a dial in

How did you get it to be natural? Just repeat in practice mode forever until it feels right?

 

[Marinjuana]

How did you get it to be natural? Just repeat in practice mode forever until it feels right?

Just get good at sliding out the B343 and then confirm it into the special even if you just want the block string. That's what I do for B3434 too, I mess it up when I try to input it all at once

 

[GLoRToR]

Just get good at sliding out the B343 and then confirm it into the special even if you just want the block string. That's what I do for B3434 too, I mess it up when I try to input it all at once

The problem is consistently getting it right in an actual match

 

[Shale101]

The problem is consistently getting it right in an actual match

I don't know why these issues even exist....This shouldn't be a thing players have to worry about. I dont fully understand it all but back 343 is a " dial in " combo is that correct? I've had problems with back 343 input in the past depending on the controller I'm using . I've gotten pretty consistent with it now and I honestly never have trouble with back 343 in Delia's Dance. I do however have lots of trouble getting DD after Jade's 322 combo. I also find her back 2124 I sometimes input incorrectly and it doesn't come out. I find I've had a fair amount of trouble with inputs in this game in general. Sometimes just even doing a regular glaive at full screen....there will be times when I mess it up several times in a row and other times i can do them perfectly fine.

 

[Marinjuana]

I don't know why these issues even exist....This shouldn't be a thing players have to worry about. I dont fully understand it all but back 343 is a " dial in " combo is that correct? I've had problems with back 343 input in the past depending on the controller I'm using . I've gotten pretty consistent with it now and I honestly never have trouble with back 343 in Delia's Dance. I do however have lots of trouble getting DD after Jade's 322 combo. I also find her back 2124 I sometimes input incorrectly and it doesn't come out. I find I've had a fair amount of trouble with inputs in this game in general. Sometimes just even doing a regular glaive at full screen....there will be times when I mess it up several times in a row and other times i can do them perfectly fine.

It limits the strength of the string by forcing you to commit to the longer string. There's no B34 or 32(IIRC) to stagger with. But if you hit too many buttons (B3433, 3222) then you are gonna see issues.

The problem is consistently getting it right in an actual match

Hey man, at least it's not Shang's 21U2D2!

 

[Shale101]

It limits the strength of the string by forcing you to commit to the longer string. There's no B34 or 32(IIRC) to stagger with. But if you hit too many buttons (B3433, 3222) then you are gonna see issues.



Hey man, at least it's not Shang's 21U2D2!

I understand that you have to commit to back 343 .....i dont understand why the input of the combo itself is wonky compared to other combos. It's like you have to "dial" it in very fast! Why are some combos like this and others not? 322 is the same....

 

[Marinjuana]

I understand that you have to commit to back 343 .....i dont understand why the input of the combo itself is wonky compared to other combos. It's like you have to "dial" it in very fast! Why are some combos like this and others not? 322 is the same....

I think the input is that way because of the nature of the move. You have to have input B343 before the "B34" comes out. You are used to doing moves like say 124 where you can input the 1 and then the 2 and then input the 4, it's just an easier input as there's a much larger window for inputting 2 and the 4. I think 322 is the same as B343 but it may give you more time to input, can't say I've had the issue. Probably helps to not have to input back either.

Consider thinking of it as a two hit move that just has an auto double. You want the good move, you need to do the fast input.

 

[Shale101]

That makes sense but also doesn't make sense to me because Kitana's back 231 combo is similar but comes out much easier for me. It took me a long time to get use to how fast you have to input back 343 with jade. Also I personally think 322 the input is even faster and more difficult then back 343....maybes it's just me. These combos remind me of Kitana's 21 combo in MKX which I had trouble with for the longest time since the input seems so fast.

 

[freerf245]

Been playing Jade to cover Jax's bad matchups. This character feels broke bro lol

 

[GLoRToR]

Things you're doing wrong with Jade.
Fix it!

1. You D4.
D4BF1 instead.
Glaive stuffs most mashing after D4.
You can also D4 Delia but be careful, it's not amazing on whiff.
You can also D4 Nitro but be careful too.

2. You don't BF1 after most things.
It's not an end all solution but it forces them to keep ducking or block it.
If they are conditioned to neutral duck they're eating a mid or sometimes F2 even.
If they are conditioned that glaive is always coming you can do something else to catch them off guard.

3. You don't 12 and 21 in neutral.
Both have stupid range. 12 catches walk, 21 is a 11f mid that reaches hella far.

4. You don't sweep.
Even her regular sweep has deceptively good range and low profiles shit, leads to KD and tends to catch people offguard.
Sweep with strings resets neutral, catches people from way far back and is safe in general unless the guy's a kangaroo.

5. You do not confirm off of D2
D1 shadowkick is a nice easy confirm to catch crossups for optimal punish.
If you want hella optimal, learn highest point and confirm b2 shadowkick instead. It's not easy.

6. You AA at range with D2
use 2 or 4 into shadowkick. (anyone got an optimal?)

7. You don't use 4 to stop advancing moves.
It fkn blows up -everything- with its forward hitbox.
Start to 4BF1. You're welcome.

8. You don't B1-Delia after B3434 on block.
Do it.

9. You don't JiP with J2.
Learn its height. Safe on block, on whiff, guarantees F2 on hit.

10. You don't JiK into MB AirGlaive
Do it. Plus as fk.

 

[exeeter702]

@Shale101 @GLoRToR not sure if this is worth anything or if it has something to do with my settings (I do not use negative edge, input leniency, or additional special direction inputs).

I was having issues getting Delia's out of b343, and I realized that for whatever reason, the back input in b343 is not hung onto by the game when going for bf2 at the end of the string. I found that I had to release the back input after hitting b3(43) and press it again when doing bf2. After making this change, I never drop Delia's after b343.

I dont understand why this is even a thing tbh, why does the game not hang on to the back input here, I've tested this with other strings in the game and it doesnt seem to be a uniform thing.