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Jade General Discussion Thread

Would you really prefer Jade had an all in one pole vault but full combo punishable with a sad cancel? You cant be serious...

I agree that their should be only 2 abilities, pole vault and cancel+nitro. But comparing it to Mileenas Kahnum dash is silly. Pole Vault on his own is better for Jade than Kahnum is for Mileena. Even compared to each other Pole Vault wins.

Also... Kahnum doesnt just cost 1 slot, it costs 1slot+roll... which is a stupidly high price. You have a funny definition of free.

So bottom line... Jade gets slightly cheated on slots as she has to commit her whole setup to it (fair would be 2 slots), but Mileena gets totally ripped off, hogtied and thrown into a river.
I would LOVE if cancel+nitro where one skill because then i STILL would get an extra slot. Pole vault obviously offers safety which Mileena does not have with the dash. You have to take into consideration that mileena's dash is a low and not a mid. The range is also very good. She can mix you up a lot with her forward 4....she can do forward 4 3 into the low dash which is an overhead into a low or just do plain forward 4 into the low dash which is a constant mind game. Her low sai can be amplified to be a low. Her back 2 overhead which just knocks down but I think is safe. So she has a lot of mix ups constantly because its like will she do an overhead or the low ? When jade has all 3 slots taken up for this rush down variation she loses her mix up potential. She isnt a combo character to begin with so i guess its just leaves the throwing games. I just wish it was only 2 slots.
 

Afumba

Noob
I would LOVE if cancel+nitro where one skill because then i STILL would get an extra slot. Pole vault obviously offers safety which Mileena does not have with the dash. You have to take into consideration that mileena's dash is a low and not a mid. The range is also very good. She can mix you up a lot with her forward 4....she can do forward 4 3 into the low dash which is an overhead into a low or just do plain forward 4 into the low dash which is a constant mind game. Her low sai can be amplified to be a low. Her back 2 overhead which just knocks down but I think is safe. So she has a lot of mix ups constantly because its like will she do an overhead or the low ? When jade has all 3 slots taken up for this rush down variation she loses her mix up potential. She isnt a combo character to begin with so i guess its just leaves the throwing games. I just wish it was only 2 slots.
I understand were you are coming from and as said 2 slots for Jade cancel abilities instead of 3 would be more fair but you should have made your point in a different manner. I doubt anyone here disagrees about the 3 slot thing, the controvery came cuz you compared it to Mileenas cancel in which you are putting to much stock in. Its bad even for 1 slot.

First off f43~Kahnum is not a real mix. Whats your other option here... F43 3+4, f43~tele and f43+sai (regular and low) can all be blocked low. Using Kahnum here will get you full combo punished every time. Same thing applies to 34~Kahnum.

3~Kahnum and 34 is super yolo and not worth it, ever. You cant hitconfirm of off s3 so you are risking a full combo for 6% damage.

F4~Kahnum and F43 while an option is also not a great one. You still risk full combo for a 6% low option. And because you dont have roll anymore your overhead option will do less than 20% for a bar and 15% without meter. If you really want this mix you are better of taking low sai... low option is still punishable but at least your overhead option still hurts.

The cancel comes with the move but they are also not good. From range literally anything will hit her out of it and no way you will run in on someone, cancel and apply pressure... cancel is not good enough for that. The second they hear/see you cancel they will blow you up with s1 or their best long reaching mid.

Besides all that you also gimped your KB damage. B114 KB can only be done after d2 or f23 KBs basically forcing you to do 2 KBs in 1 combo. You CMG KB also suffers a bit as without a launcher you will have less opportunities to land it.

So what good is a free cancel if it offers only a slight gimmick whilst also replacing a much better move? I'd rather have Jaded 3 slot run cancel+options than Mileenas Kahnum dash with 2 free Slots.

As a side note... even if Jades would be 2 slots for everything i am 100% sure they would not allow you to use Delias Dance with it.

To touch back on the essence of your argument... there is no reason why Jade has to pay for a cancel others get with the move itself, the same way Mileenas has to equip Airteleport while Scorpion can do it for free (and in this example Scorpions tp is leaps and bounds better), its just NRS.
 
I understand were you are coming from and as said 2 slots for Jade cancel abilities instead of 3 would be more fair but you should have made your point in a different manner. I doubt anyone here disagrees about the 3 slot thing, the controvery came cuz you compared it to Mileenas cancel in which you are putting to much stock in. Its bad even for 1 slot.

First off f43~Kahnum is not a real mix. Whats your other option here... F43 3+4, f43~tele and f43+sai (regular and low) can all be blocked low. Using Kahnum here will get you full combo punished every time. Same thing applies to 34~Kahnum.

3~Kahnum and 34 is super yolo and not worth it, ever. You cant hitconfirm of off s3 so you are risking a full combo for 6% damage.

F4~Kahnum and F43 while an option is also not a great one. You still risk full combo for a 6% low option. And because you dont have roll anymore your overhead option will do less than 20% for a bar and 15% without meter. If you really want this mix you are better of taking low sai... low option is still punishable but at least your overhead option still hurts.

The cancel comes with the move but they are also not good. From range literally anything will hit her out of it and no way you will run in on someone, cancel and apply pressure... cancel is not good enough for that. The second they hear/see you cancel they will blow you up with s1 or their best long reaching mid.

Besides all that you also gimped your KB damage. B114 KB can only be done after d2 or f23 KBs basically forcing you to do 2 KBs in 1 combo. You CMG KB also suffers a bit as without a launcher you will have less opportunities to land it.

So what good is a free cancel if it offers only a slight gimmick whilst also replacing a much better move? I'd rather have Jaded 3 slot run cancel+options than Mileenas Kahnum dash with 2 free Slots.

As a side note... even if Jades would be 2 slots for everything i am 100% sure they would not allow you to use Delias Dance with it.

To touch back on the essence of your argument... there is no reason why Jade has to pay for a cancel others get with the move itself, the same way Mileenas has to equip Airteleport while Scorpion can do it for free (and in this example Scorpions tp is leaps and bounds better), its just NRS.
I understand what you are saying. I agree on the 2 slots and not 3. I also understand that Mileena's dash Is a big risk. Although it is a risk she has more option out of it then Jade currently does because of her mix ups and ability to have 2 more slots to pick. You have to guess low or overhead ...although there is a huge risk. Jade's cancel is the same frames as Mileena so I guess you would also call Jade's cancel bad. Jade has very low combo potential and also has a lot of risk with certain moves. Shadow kick, staff spin, back 1 2, and forward 41 are all death. Jade's best mid back 343(11 frames) which is solid ....she can still be poked out when you run in to cancel. The pole vault into the kick to take advantage of the plus frames doesnt really lead to anything that an experienced player can't easily deal with. She is also easily poked out of her glaive when amplified because it's a double high. Mileena does have a 9 frame mid right? I know the range is poor but each character can't have it all. I'm not trying to say that Jade is horrible and Mileena is amazing....not what im saying at all. Each has pros and cons but I just really wish this build for Jade didn't take 3 slots. It's seems unfair to ME....others can disagree.
 

Afumba

Noob
I understand what you are saying. I agree on the 2 slots and not 3. I also understand that Mileena's dash Is a big risk. Although it is a risk she has more option out of it then Jade currently does because of her mix ups and ability to have 2 more slots to pick. You have to guess low or overhead ...although there is a huge risk. Jade's cancel is the same frames as Mileena so I guess you would also call Jade's cancel bad. Jade has very low combo potential and also has a lot of risk with certain moves. Shadow kick, staff spin, back 1 2, and forward 41 are all death. Jade's best mid back 343(11 frames) which is solid ....she can still be poked out when you run in to cancel. The pole vault into the kick to take advantage of the plus frames doesnt really lead to anything that an experienced player can't easily deal with. She is also easily poked out of her glaive when amplified because it's a double high. Mileena does have a 9 frame mid right? I know the range is poor but each character can't have it all. I'm not trying to say that Jade is horrible and Mileena is amazing....not what im saying at all. Each has pros and cons but I just really wish this build for Jade didn't take 3 slots. It's seems unfair to ME....others can disagree.
Having options is irrelevant if the options suck or another move does the same job better. Damagewise Mileena has as low damage as Jade has, if not even lower if she picks Kahnum. Talking frames, Mileena is dead on block on most things as well, its at least as bad as Jades. Jade is also a bit faster and has better reach.

Its been awhile since i used Jades cancels but i remember them feeling better than Mileenas. Even if they are the same Mileenas is still worse. Mileenas poses no threat from range and up close i would still say Jades edges hers out just by the fact alone that she has a safe option.

Anyways we should stop here and just stick with your original complaint... as said...
I dont disagree with you on the slots, yes its unfair but at least you get a decent move. What i disagree with you is the comparisson you are making and the way you are arguing about it. You cant compare Mileenas and Jades cancel the way you do. Mileenas cancel is probably "free" because she loses roll for it. And she doesnt have a Shadowkick option out of it, if she had it might cost 1 slot too so there is no point arguing about it. Dont use Nitrokick, now you have 1 more slot left for something else (in this scenario now you have cancels+1extra move while Mileena has cancel+2 extra moves but sacrifices roll... pretty sure Jade still has the better deal)

Imagine Mileena would have to equip Kahnum Dash without the cancel, losing roll in the process, and then have to equip the cancels separately. Move is bad as is... imagine it would cost 2 slots+roll.

Bottom line pls stop comparing them. Its not a good example because they are both unfair in their own right considering the cost.
 
Having options is irrelevant if the options suck or another move does the same job better. Damagewise Mileena has as low damage as Jade has, if not even lower if she picks Kahnum. Talking frames, Mileena is dead on block on most things as well, its at least as bad as Jades. Jade is also a bit faster and has better reach.

Its been awhile since i used Jades cancels but i remember them feeling better than Mileenas. Even if they are the same Mileenas is still worse. Mileenas poses no threat from range and up close i would still say Jades edges hers out just by the fact alone that she has a safe option.

Anyways we should stop here and just stick with your original complaint... as said...
I dont disagree with you on the slots, yes its unfair but at least you get a decent move. What i disagree with you is the comparisson you are making and the way you are arguing about it. You cant compare Mileenas and Jades cancel the way you do. Mileenas cancel is probably "free" because she loses roll for it. And she doesnt have a Shadowkick option out of it, if she had it might cost 1 slot too so there is no point arguing about it. Dont use Nitrokick, now you have 1 more slot left for something else (in this scenario now you have cancels+1extra move while Mileena has cancel+2 extra moves but sacrifices roll... pretty sure Jade still has the better deal)

Imagine Mileena would have to equip Kahnum Dash without the cancel, losing roll in the process, and then have to equip the cancels separately. Move is bad as is... imagine it would cost 2 slots+roll.

Bottom line pls stop comparing them. Its not a good example because they are both unfair in their own right considering the cost.
I guess we can just agree to disagree. I like playing Jade more rush down.....the chipping to death with projectiles and overhead low mix with the low projectile is boring to me. No one has to choose the dash with mileena if they prefer the high combo/damage potential with the roll. At least she gets the roll as her base move....which I could say the same for delias dance. I just don't personally think the dash is as bad as you do. I think a low with so much range is a big plus even being unsafe with all her other options and the way she is built. I could very well play Jaded without the nitro kick like you said but as you also said with the cancels someone can blow you up very easy when they see it with standing 1. At least with the nitro kick its really fast and you can sometimes hit them but you are also taking a risk of them just ducking. I think Mileena as a character with the roll would place at a higher tier then Jade, and I guess you would place Jaded Jade above Mileena's second variation. Maybe you think Mileena is lower then Jade overall..... To each their own.
 

Espio

Back To Basics
Lead Moderator
Y'all gonna have to chill in here with all this sassy energy.

All I will say about Mileena/Jade discussion is comparison is the thief of joy. Enjoy your characters for what they are and proceed from there. They both have legit strengths and weaknesses and we should all be happy that Jade can play a more footsie based style, pure zoner, pure rushdown or a mixture and move on from it.


But seriously chill on all the aggressive stuff.
 

Raider

Noob
I am using Air Razor-Rang, Edenian Spark and Deadly Assassin but wanted to ask why is suddenly everyone talking about Delia's Dance? Why is it considered to be a "must"? And what should i replace with it? I think that this variation without Delia's Dance is good and strong.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
I am using Air Razor-Rang, Edenian Spark and Deadly Assassin but wanted to ask why is suddenly everyone talking about Delia's Dance? Why is it considered to be a "must"? And what should i replace with it? I think that this variation without Delia's Dance is good and strong.
Delia's Dance allows Jade to make every single string safe along with the most perfect pushback on block for not guaranteeing a turn loss. It also forces a mindgame off every touch. Every poke and string threatens a sudden low with no gaps off anything. With Jade being a character without a single option to keep things safe up close nor any mindgames with pressure, Delia's Dance covers both issues flawlessly.

All of us are considering it "mandatory" because it plugs so many holes in her shit base kit design.
 
Delia's Dance allows Jade to make every single string safe along with the most perfect pushback on block for not guaranteeing a turn loss. It also forces a mindgame off every touch. Every poke and string threatens a sudden low with no gaps off anything. With Jade being a character without a single option to keep things safe up close nor any mindgames with pressure, Delia's Dance covers both issues flawlessly.

All of us are considering it "mandatory" because it plugs so many holes in her shit base kit design.
I don't use it a lot I can't remember if its safe when NOT meter burned??.....I don't recall there being much push back unless you meter burn it. I never found this move to suit my personal style....People always block low with Jade when they are up close anyways. Her 28 frame overhead is just way to slow to throw out when you are right next to them.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
It’s not safe if you don’t meter burn it, but just like D’Vorah’s trident rush, unless you’re looking for the punish you’ll probably miss it. It’s only -11 or so, so there’s not a lot of wiggle room for uncertainty.

Also, sure, her overhead is slow. If you’re playing someone who constantly presses buttons you probably won’t get it off. But if the opponent is respecting you at all you’d be surprised how often it can hit.

Our community is obsessed with what’s “reactable” and they’ve been getting hit with slow shit since Mileena’s overhead in MK9. It’s a tool you have, so use it.
 
It’s not safe if you don’t meter burn it, but just like D’Vorah’s trident rush, unless you’re looking for the punish you’ll probably miss it. It’s only -11 or so, so there’s not a lot of wiggle room for uncertainty.

Also, sure, her overhead is slow. If you’re playing someone who constantly presses buttons you probably won’t get it off. But if the opponent is respecting you at all you’d be surprised how often it can hit.

Our community is obsessed with what’s “reactable” and they’ve been getting hit with slow shit since Mileena’s overhead in MK9. It’s a tool you have, so use it.
It is a good tool when you can train your opponent to duck. I like to have the low spark, pole vault, and blazing nitro kick equipped. I stay probably at least her pole's distance away(usually more) and can harass them with the spark and regular glaive. Then I dart up usually after a glaive because her recover is pretty good after and pole vault into the running kick which is plus so it keeps me safe. They usually start the get scared because of the running kick and will inch their way up usually neutral ducking trying to punish the kick and i will dash up and use the overhead max range. I do find that the people I play against seem to be constantly mashing buttons lol so I rarely get it off up close.
 
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Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
I don't use it a lot I can't remember if its safe when NOT meter burned??.....I don't recall there being much push back unless you meter burn it. I never found this move to suit my personal style....People always block low with Jade when they are up close anyways. Her 28 frame overhead is just way to slow to throw out when you are right next to them.
It's not about mixups in the 50/50 sense. It's about mixups where every single button press by Jade on block threatens Delia's so every touch is a mindgame. This allows Jade to enforce stagger pressure, grabs, pokes, and dipping out to zone.
 
It's not about mixups in the 50/50 sense. It's about mixups where every single button press by Jade on block threatens Delia's so every touch is a mindgame. This allows Jade to enforce stagger pressure, grabs, pokes, and dipping out to zone.
Yes I know what you mean....back 3 into DD.... 1 into DD ...down 4 into DD.....You however have to take into consideration the range. DD doesn't actually have that great of range unless meter burned. Even with that it just leads to a knock down. Personally I've used DD with little success in the past because like I said when Jade gets close they just block low ALWAYS. This is just my experience.... I prefer keeping more distance with the opponent and playing keep away. DD you need to be very close. Jade doesn't fight well up close in my opinion with the tools that other characters have to counteract what she has.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
Yes I know what you mean....back 3 into DD.... 1 into DD ...down 4 into DD.....You however have to take into consideration the range. DD doesn't actually have that great of range unless meter burned. Even with that it just leads to a knock down. Personally I've used DD with little success in the past because like I said when Jade gets close they just block low ALWAYS. This is just my experience.... I prefer keeping more distance with the opponent and playing keep away. DD you need to be very close. Jade doesn't fight well up close in my opinion with the tools that other characters have to counteract what she has.
Little reason to be amplifying on hit. It lasts long enough to pretty easily block confirm the amplification for safety. You're also misconstruing my point here. It doesnt matter that much if they're constantly blocking low. What matters is that the move allows Jade to have safety options up close, mind games on every touch, mind games on B3434 / B343, the ability to block confirm into a situation where Jade can get away due to amplification pushback, and create pressure loops if desired. It's a jack of all trades close range ability that makes Jade no longer feel like a cripple when she's inevitably forced to fight opponents up close. The option to dip in and out from close range to staff distance to zoning midrange to safe distance for jumping into air razor-rang in whatever order desired is a huge boost to Jade's core gameplan of hit and run footsies.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Premium Supporter
Yes I know what you mean....back 3 into DD.... 1 into DD ...down 4 into DD.....You however have to take into consideration the range. DD doesn't actually have that great of range unless meter burned. Even with that it just leads to a knock down. Personally I've used DD with little success in the past because like I said when Jade gets close they just block low ALWAYS. This is just my experience.... I prefer keeping more distance with the opponent and playing keep away. DD you need to be very close. Jade doesn't fight well up close in my opinion with the tools that other characters have to counteract what she has.
I don’t think you understand the strength here. This is like Johnny Cage’s rising star; except 100% better.

This is all about making her stagger game some much more dangerous. b3434 is an amazing stagger now. It basically completely gets rid of her flawless block gap and makes people hesitant to press buttons. Counter poking is so much more risky because they risk getting hit by delia’s. It means she can steal her turn against basically everyone and they’ve gotta hold her pressure. She’s verrrrrrry annoying to deal with when delia’s is equipped.
 
Little reason to be amplifying on hit. It lasts long enough to pretty easily block confirm the amplification for safety. You're also misconstruing my point here. It doesnt matter that much if they're constantly blocking low. What matters is that the move allows Jade to have safety options up close, mind games on every touch, mind games on B3434 / B343, the ability to block confirm into a situation where Jade can get away due to amplification pushback, and create pressure loops if desired. It's a jack of all trades close range ability that makes Jade no longer feel like a cripple when she's inevitably forced to fight opponents up close. The option to dip in and out from close range to staff distance to zoning midrange to safe distance for jumping into air razor-rang in whatever order desired is a huge boost to Jade's core gameplan of hit and run footsies.
I understand what your saying. I guess your right , maybe I will have to give it another shot. I saw Kitana prime playing with DD, air razor, and assassin strings so maybe that is a good set up. Also saw sonic play her in that recent tournament and he did decent....sadly didn't win though.
 

Raider

Noob
I think that it's about the playstyle. If you are playing zoner and keep away Jade 90% of the time sure you won't benefit much from having DD.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
I think that it's about the playstyle. If you are playing zoner and keep away Jade 90% of the time sure you won't benefit much from having DD.
I strongly disagree. It's extremely rare to have entire matches where you are able to exclusively zone your opponent with no instances of having to fight up close. Delia's Dance is the perfect close range tool to allow a zoning Jade to get the opponent off of her safely and get away. On block, amplified has its pushback. On hit, amplified has the knockdown. Both allow Jade to get away and back to zoning.

Aside from DD, what else does Jade have that could so easily help her compete up close in a safe manner (while simultaneously making backing up way safer) when it inevitably happens every match?
 

Afumba

Noob
I think that it's about the playstyle. If you are playing zoner and keep away Jade 90% of the time sure you won't benefit much from having DD.
I agree with arqwart here... the other zoning options (spark and loopy rang) dont offer enough to warrant a spot over DD. Your zoning improves marginally while the rest takes a way bigger hit.

They are matches were spark or loopy glaive can do ok but i would still not remove DD for either of them... i would replace the extra strings instead. Giving up DD is almost like giving up airrang to me.
 

Espio

Back To Basics
Lead Moderator
Casual Comment:

Still waiting on a purple staff and glaive for non-classic skins. Also still eagerly awaiting the option for different hairstyles.


Competitive Comments:
Just wanted to also chime in on this: A zoning Jade benefits heavily from Delia's dance. This is the same for Noob. Eventually your opponent will get in and having mind games off of your pokes that can be amped for safety, sending the opponent away or damage is crucial. Jade is a spacing character and DD facilitates that.

There are no match ups where people won't be able to eventually get in on Jade. It makes her better and safer up close with better chip damage, better meterless restand damage and so on.

There's no Jade loadout that is hurt by Delia's Dance, it is easily one of her best specials with air glaive and glow. It completes her and covers up gaps and real weaknesses she has well. It makes her design make sense.

It is also one slot while making Pole vault gapless requires two slots for the ex shadow kick.


I understand what your saying. I guess your right , maybe I will have to give it another shot. I saw Kitana prime playing with DD, air razor, and assassin strings so maybe that is a good set up. Also saw sonic play her in that recent tournament and he did decent....sadly didn't win though.
Yeah or if you like low spark and want to have a zoning option that with Delia's Dance and Air Glaive is a fantastic, versatile build. You've got pros and cons to consider.

It's definitely a good loadout, it has been the wave (Strings, Air Glaive, and DD) that has been hyped up by me and others for well over a month. King Gambler, Sonic, Kevo, Biohazard and so on and so forth. It's a prominent build.
 

Espio

Back To Basics
Lead Moderator
I been watching Koisy videos....Any other Jade's out there that I should be watching?
Biohazard, Kevo Da Man, Sonic Fox, Kitana Prime, Tekken Master. Some play her more than others. Also look at your mid level players too that have been playing her since the beginning, they have some shenanigans too worth watching.
 
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