Discussion Is MKXL 10/4 patch the most offensive version of the game?

[KHTC Takgillo]

The armour thing should have just been look at on a character by character basis, I don't know how anyone can disagree with that.

And reading most of these answers that use the talking point "armor was offense not defense bruh. you stealed back your turn everytiem 4 3" is just frying my brain. Why couldn't certain characters have their armoured launchers only work on wakeup or reversal? Then the offensive part of armour is completely gone while the defensive part stays.

And to clarify I do prefer this version of the game to last, armoured launchers in the neutral were cancer. Everyone dismissing these for-armour arguments as just scrubs who want ez wins is annoying though, there's some legit points to be spoken.

I m gonna be honest the character by character thing is starting to annoy me the fact that some character have armored launcher for 2 bars mean that they thought about it for every individual character. You may not agree with what they came up with during their brainstorm but saying they just applied the same thing to everyone and didn t think about the characters is not just to NRS. A good example of them changing armored launcher on character by character basis is Predator and his scimitar stab compared to Takeda and his fist whirlwind both armored attack launch with 2 bars for example but scimitar only has 1 hit of armor while fist whirlwind has 2 which can be attributed to HTQ strong zoning.

 

[Sirius Jones]

IMO only thing this Patch did was refresh the game and enforced the rule dont get knock down.defensiveness in this game got hit hard.Alot characters now have no or a bad choice of a wake up options in this game so they have to eat that 50/50.Even tho the idea is they got rid of armored launchers some character can spent a 2 bars for the same effect.Last thing why do characters have safe armor moves makes no sense.nothing change to vortex nothing change to being jailed.I love mkx but i am starting to think mk9 was better maded

 

[ismael4790]

I m gonna be honest the character by character thing is starting to annoy me the fact that some character have armored launcher for 2 bars mean that they thought about it for every individual character. You may not agree with what they came up with during their brainstorm but saying they just applied the same thing to everyone and didn t think about the characters is not just to NRS. A good example of them changing armored launcher on character by character basis is Predator and his scimitar stab compared to Takeda and his fist whirlwind both armored attack launch with 2 bars for example but scimitar only has 1 hit of armor while fist whirlwind has 2 which can be attributed to HTQ strong zoning.

When it was the time of thinking about exrisingkarma treatment, the person in charge of thinking was probably getting brain surgery.

 

[trufenix]

Lotta people really thought that patch was gonna turn checkers into chess.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

One thing that is getting lost in this discussion is that there is little to no consequence for pressuring people anymore.

There are characters in this version that will rise to the top bc of the system changes and solely do to their no consequence, plus, loopable offense. Many of you disagreed with me about my opinions in the past but it seems NRS did agree with a lot of the things I have been saying. Run canceling characters needed nerfed. Running needed nerfed (stamina). 50/50 needed nerfed. AA need to be better. All things I have said in the past and got blown up for.

Thank you for the comments. I see a lot of rationale discussion.

BTW another juicy thread incoming today or tomorrow More jimmies will be rustled

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Lotta people really thought that patch was gonna turn checkers into chess.

This is an amazing response. Thank you.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

One thing that is getting lost in this discussion is that there is little to no consequence for pressuring people anymore.

There are characters in this version that will rise to the top bc of the system changes and solely do to their no consequence, plus, loopable offense. Many of you disagreed with me about my opinions in the past but it seems NRS did agree with a lot of the things I have been saying. Run canceling characters needed nerfed. Running needed nerfed (stamina). 50/50 needed nerfed. AA need to be better. All things I have said in the past and got blown up for.

Thank you for the comments. I see a lot of rationale discussion.

BTW another juicy thread incoming today or tomorrow More jimmies will be rustled

On give me a good example of a situation now worse than pre-patch

 

[Matix218]

One thing that is getting lost in this discussion is that there is little to no consequence for pressuring people anymore.

There are characters in this version that will rise to the top bc of the system changes and solely do to their no consequence, plus, loopable offense. Many of you disagreed with me about my opinions in the past but it seems NRS did agree with a lot of the things I have been saying. Run canceling characters needed nerfed. Running needed nerfed (stamina). 50/50 needed nerfed. AA need to be better. All things I have said in the past and got blown up for.

Thank you for the comments. I see a lot of rationale discussion.

BTW another juicy thread incoming today or tomorrow More jimmies will be rustled

It seems (based on several replies) like peoples biggest problem with this patch is either not having a great (safe) wakeup attack or a way to launch their opponent with a wakeup attack. To that point i would argue that you are supposed to be in a bad situation when you get knocked down (and this is the case in many other non-nrs games). We are used to launching wakeups and safe wakeups from previous nrs games which is why we feel so "helpless" now with the changes to mkx when we get knocked down. You definitely should be in a bad situation when your opponent knocks you down and sometimes, based on your read, your best option may be to block or delay rather than just automatically rely of attacking your opponent when you get off the ground. I personally love oki and the mibdgames it creates so to me this version of the game is a million times more fun than before.

 

[IrishMantis]

Lotta people really thought that patch was gonna turn checkers into chess.

Checkers is way more fun

If they would ofade SZ OH a splat knockdown I don't think SZ be as dominant in the corner as he is now

 

[ismael4790]

Checkers is way more fun

If they would ofade SZ OH a splat knockdown I don't think SZ be as dominant in the corner as he is now

Actually, I dare nrs to remove all 50/50s from the game. I double dare them

Let's see what people does not having 50/50 mixups to open up their opponents.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Actually, I dare nrs to remove all 50/50s from the game. I double dare them

Let's see what people does not having 50/50 mixups to open up their opponents.

There s no such thing as a FG without 50/50

 

[ismael4790]

There s no such thing as a FG without 50/50

There are many characters in this game without oh/low 50/50s.

Those of us that use them, use block/no block type 50/50s lol

 

[CrazyFingers]

There s no such thing as a FG without 50/50

I think he's referring to specifically overhead/low mixups. Though he should have specified.

 

[IrishMantis]

Actually, I dare nrs to remove all 50/50s from the game. I double dare them

Let's see what people does not having 50/50 mixups to open up their opponents.

I'm already wrecking all the dudes who use to rely on yolo armour an non stop jailing who use to come pretty close to even with me and they aren't happy saying "Alist is still broke" it's great

Well FGs need some kind of mix ups to work so I would not say completely remove them but I believe it should always be heavily disadvantages to the character doing the 50/50 but it's hard to say as unfortunately some chars where base design was built on 50/50s

MK9s SZ had a n unfuzzyable 50/50

222 did not launch full combo punishable
22slide did not launch full combo punishable

 

[ismael4790]

I'm already wrecking all the dudes who use to rely on yolo armour an non stop jailing who use to come pretty close to even with me and they aren't happy saying "Alist is still broke" it's great

Well FGs need some kind of mix ups to work so I would not say completely remove them be I believe it should always be heavily disadvantages to the character doing the 50/50 but it's hard to say as unfortunately some chars where base design was built on 50/50s

I'm not against 50/50s, but against bs 50/50s, like smoke now, for example, who literally takes no risk doing his oh/low into bomb, besides eating a shitty armor reversal that won't launch him.

Risk reward should always be equal.

 

[CrazyFingers]

I'm not against 50/50s, but against bs 50/50s, like smoke now, for example, who literally takes no risk doing his oh/low into bomb, besides eating a shitty armor reversal that won't launch him.

Risk reward should always be equal.

Well technically you can jump out of smoke bomb on block.

 

[IrishMantis]

I'm not against 50/50s, but against bs 50/50s, like smoke now, for example, who literally takes no risk doing his oh/low into bomb, besides eating a shitty armor reversal that won't launch him.

Risk reward should always be equal.

Okay we are on the same page so

Yeah if they made SZ B2 a splat knockdown it be still a 50/50 but not baindead you will die if you block incorrectly so that was we will actually patient in the corner without doing stup stuff in fear of the OH that is safe behind the clone

 

[ismael4790]

Well technically you can jump out of smoke bomb on block.

Anyway, iirc if he wants to use exbomb he eliminates the gap and all chance you have to apply this reliable tech lol

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lotta people really thought that patch was gonna turn checkers into chess.

indeed lmao, while some think the game got better (it looks better for me actually) some think the game got worse.

Some people just want to dust off MK9, lmao.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I'm not against 50/50s, but against bs 50/50s, like smoke now, for example, who literally takes no risk doing his oh/low into bomb, besides eating a shitty armor reversal that won't launch him.

Risk reward should always be equal.

Is there a game with even 50/50 risk reward for every character?

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I do like this version of the game over the pre patch version. I honestly think that defense armor is the answer to everything, however. Everyone got hype for Kounter and it turned out to be nothing but an on screen "good job! You punished" text.

If this function offered more relevancy it'd have made the game even better than it is now.

Example:

Was EX xSpecialx used? Yes

Was it a Kounter? Yes. = Armored

Was it a Kounter? No. = Unarmored

I'd even venture to say wake-up armor would still be fine. Armor in the neutral would remain gone, but DEFENSIVE armor would still be reliable to change momentum.

So from this example, neutral armor would he gone so stealing turns, run in and armor slow start-up projectiles, etc would still NOT be a thing

But actually reversing/kountering would pay off in gaps, whiffs, whatever the case.

Right now, offense is not scared to continue hitting buttons because why respect 8%-15% armored non launching specials? More than half don't leave enough advantage frames to capitalize or they send the player full screen (which a lot of chars don't want). This also can become an issue when zoning chars like Kitana or Possessed Kenshi come in and use their meter for pressure or chip and sending them full screen doesn't actually help you, but them. Yes it resets neutral, but favors the opponent more than the one who burned a bar... This also shows that some "zoners" have better offense than offense chars.

Nothing is ever perfect but through time I love playing the game in it's state, but I don't feel it's actually balanced as we hoped and KOUNTER not actually having any affect is kind of a let down.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

On give me a good example of a situation now worse than pre-patch

Crystalline tremor's corner offense. King loa tempest corner offense. Gaps in pressure mean very little now without the threat of being launched.

 

[Matix218]

I do like this version of the game over the pre patch version. I honestly think that defense armor is the answer to everything, however. Everyone got hype for Kounter and it turned out to be nothing but an on screen "good job! You punished" text.

If this function offered more relevancy it'd have made the game even better than it is now.

Example:

Was EX xSpecialx used? Yes

Was it a Kounter? Yes. = Armored

Was it a Kounter? No. = Unarmored

I'd even venture to say wake-up armor would still be fine. Armor in the neutral would remain gone, but DEFENSIVE armor would still be reliable to change momentum.

So from this example, neutral armor would he gone so stealing turns, run in and armor slow start-up projectiles, etc would still NOT be a thing

But actually reversing/kountering would pay off in gaps, whiffs, whatever the case.

Right now, offense is not scared to continue hitting buttons because why respect 8%-15% armored non launching specials? More than half don't leave enough advantage frames to capitalize or they send the player full screen (which a lot of chars don't want). This also can become an issue when zoning chars like Kitana or Possessed Kenshi come in and use their meter for pressure or chip and sending them full screen doesn't actually help you, but them. Yes it resets neutral, but favors the opponent more than the one who burned a bar... This also shows that some "zoners" have better offense than offense chars.

Nothing is ever perfect but through time I love playing the game in it's state, but I don't feel it's actually balanced as we hoped and KOUNTER not actually having any affect is kind of a let down.

But if you are "kountering" meaning punishing, you dont even need the armor right? Armor goes through things, if you are punishing a blocked special you have no use for armor.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Crystalline tremor's corner offense. King loa tempest corner offense. Gaps in pressure mean very little now without the threat of being launched.

give me a concrete scenario

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

But if you are "kountering" meaning punishing, you dont even need the armor right? Armor goes through things, if you are punishing a blocked special you have no use for armor.

Exposing a gap, waking up, kountering something like sub clone as well. All examples help defense, while keeping the neutral armor free