Input Error Debate is Offically OVER

[Vengeance135]

Thank you for the second video. I hate it when that game does a move I didn't do. It pisses me off.

 

[Torrent]

^^ Idd thanks for the time you've put into showcasing these problems Tom.

This stuff really kills the enjoyment in the game for me. Hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

I think this fits here

I just watched this vid... amazing vid, seriously.

 

[Rabid Justice]

But if you look at the inputs in the video im hitting and getting a back dash. I'm actually holding for a second then doing .

Its weird. Do not know why they would use this in a back to block game. They should just remove it and only use for dashes.

 

[Eddy Wang]

We need to keep talking about this honestly, i wonder if this time NRS will listen.

Not suitable for tournaments? damn

 

[BookBurning]

I've did flash's stupid quantum tunneling so many times when trying to do d1 off of blocking that my roommate jokingly calls it 'my combo'.

I mean who the hell did they have in mind when creating such a huge buffer window, people with lou gehrigs disease?

I'm so salty over this being confirmed, it's like we can't have anything without devs adding something stupid opposed to 'here's the game simply, play it.' Don't even get me started on that reversal algorithm BS.

I'm going to have a brain aneurysm.

 

[Kooron Nation]

I've did flash's stupid quantum tunneling so many times when trying to do d1 off of blocking that my roommate jokingly calls it 'my combo'.

I mean who the hell did they have in mind when creating such a huge buffer window, people with lou gehrigs disease?

I'm so salty over this being confirmed, it's like we can't have anything without devs adding something stupid opposed to 'here's the game simply, play it.' Don't even get me started on that reversal algorithm BS.

I'm going to have a brain aneurysm.

Oh man The Flash has some of the worst ones, b22f3 into that dash punch or d1d2 into RMS

 

[KingHippo]

Bringing in some Fuudo for thought- what if the inputs are just how they are?

I mean, we know by now that there is no issue with fixing complicated issues; not only did they fix the option-selects in MKX, they were also able to completely shift their netcode from input-based to rollback, which is by no means an easy feat. It's very clear that as far as making a game where there are basic issues in the coding of the game that prevent it from working, they have moved far past the messes of games like MK9.

We also all know how active the lead design is in stream chats. Because people apparently can't stop talking about this, is there really any doubt that he knows? So we know that the team is very good at finding and correcting things they don't want to be in the game, and that the guy responsible for doing that is constantly aware of the stream chats where everyone is kvetching.

Now of course, no one is perfect or infallible, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that they could get it done, yet this input system has been pretty set in stone for a while now. Perhaps then the real issue is, like many balance discussions had by the smaller TYM crowd, that the developers know what people are talking about and kind of...don't care? As in they don't see a problem?

Surely if it was a big glitch that has been going on for years they would have fixed it by now? Sounds like a design choice to me, one that many may not necessarily like (I don't), but clearly something they probably don't actually believe is worth changing, because there would have been nothing stopping them from doing it previously.

 

[KrstffrMunk]

@KingHippo of course that might be the case, but when a developers boasts about catering to the competitive scene, stuff like this is inexcusable if left unaddressed.

Perfectly viable reversals have to be abandoned until this issue has been fixed, and so leaves the game with less options and less overall depth.

 

[Alioune]

I am explaining how the buffer window works here, and the OS Im using is a direct application of how input storing works during 3F buffer. The current explanation of how reversal window works or is an issue is incorrect imo :
https://twitter.com/Alioune85/status/871681271520530432

(follow the thread of tweets)

 

[Alioune]

In other words, you DEFINITELY can D1 or any normal during reversal window then cancel it OUTSIDE of the 3f reversal window, and there you have your punish. What is said in some of these vids (like you cant reversal D1, but it works outside of reversal window) is false.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Bringing in some Fuudo for thought- what if the inputs are just how they are?

I mean, we know by now that there is no issue with fixing complicated issues; not only did they fix the option-selects in MKX, they were also able to completely shift their netcode from input-based to rollback, which is by no means an easy feat. It's very clear that as far as making a game where there are basic issues in the coding of the game that prevent it from working, they have moved far past the messes of games like MK9.

We also all know how active the lead design is in stream chats. Because people apparently can't stop talking about this, is there really any doubt that he knows? So we know that the team is very good at finding and correcting things they don't want to be in the game, and that the guy responsible for doing that is constantly aware of the stream chats where everyone is kvetching.

Now of course, no one is perfect or infallible, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that they could get it done, yet this input system has been pretty set in stone for a while now. Perhaps then the real issue is, like many balance discussions had by the smaller TYM crowd, that the developers know what people are talking about and kind of...don't care? As in they don't see a problem?

Surely if it was a big glitch that has been going on for years they would have fixed it by now? Sounds like a design choice to me, one that many may not necessarily like (I don't), but clearly something they probably don't actually believe is worth changing, because there would have been nothing stopping them from doing it previously.

Since this is still the engine that had P1 advantage in MK9 one of the reason this hasn't been gone until now might be because it would require them maybe to redesign a new engine from ground up.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Since this is still the engine that had P1 advantage in MK9 one of the reason this hasn't been gone until now might be because it would require them maybe to redesign a new engine from ground up.

If they were able to completely overhaul the netcode, it definitely wouldn't require a totally new engine.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If they were able to completely overhaul the netcode, it definitely wouldn't require a totally new engine.

hope so indeed.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Bringing in some Fuudo for thought- what if the inputs are just how they are?

I they were also able to completely shift their netcode from input-based to rollback

The input lag online is still pretty intense. Really wish that they would give us control over the online frame lag like other games do if they really are using rollback based code. Seems like a waste if you ask me.

 

[MagnetoHalfway]

Thank you for this, I knew I wasnt crazy

 

[Tom Brady]

This is the CORRECT and fully tested conclusion.

 

[Scoot Magee]

This is the CORRECT and fully tested conclusion.

Whats your opinion on the buffer window with dashes? I posted a video on that earlier in the thread.

 

[Tom Brady]

Whats your opinion on the buffer window with dashes? I posted a video on that earlier in the thread.

As far as the game is concerned, DB,B is the same as B,B which is why you get the back dash.

 

[scorpiomagnum]

Can't test right now but I assume the latest patch has not fixed this buffer/input issue?

 

[Scoot Magee]

As far as the game is concerned, DB,B is the same as B,B which is why you get the back dash.

I don't think this is the case though. I cant get a back dash from doing , it never happens. I tried to do it and couldn't. I just think the first input is stored for way too long and then we have the buffer window that is also way too long. I can literally hold for a few seconds then do and get a back dash.

Something really needs to be done about this because it's a huge problem for people playing on alt controls. It happens to me in pretty much every match I play, multiple times. I have eaten a lot of damage due to this input error.

 

[portent]

I'm not saying other players aren't correct about the problem, however I tend to trust @Tom Brady and his opinion about this more than anyone simply because he's from the golden age of fighters where inputs were pretty tight to begin with. If he says this is an issue, NRS needs to listen.

 

[Eddy Wang]

This is the CORRECT and fully tested conclusion.

So we'll have to wait 3 frames to apply a poke into special?

 

[Scoot Magee]

The input system in this game is a total mess.

The 3 frame buffer window to help punish after blocking prioritizes specials over anything so you can't even use the buffer window if you want to cancel a fast normal into a special. It defeats the purpose if it was meant to make punishing easier. This happens in alt and normal controls.

The directional inputs store for too long and the buffer window in between inputs are too long consistently causing accidental specials.

Alternate controls can remedy accidental special inputs but then creates accidental dash inputs when trying to high and low block. It also makes simple inputs into strict inputs which is tolerable but unnecessary.

I get accidental interactable inputs when inputting strings too quickly sometimes which is annoying. You can fix that by turning off button shortcuts but then I can't hit 2 buttons to grab anymore. I have to map an 8th button on my stick in some weird ass spot so I can have access to throw. I ended up turning the shortcuts back on so that I can throw with 2 buttons as opposed to mapping it an awkward position on my stick.

Each control scheme just creates different issues. It's not uncommon to see people switch control schemes between different characters. What's really annoying is that you can't actually do this online. You literally have to go back to the main menu which actually makes no sense to me.

It's sad that absolutely none of this was addressed in the last patch. The back dash issue is my biggest problem right now. It has consistently screwed me over in matches.

My best option may be to just put my stick away and play pad on normal controls. Probably every ones best bet honestly.

 

[Matix218]

I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated by things like this or the crazy gear ui if I didn't think the game was quite good.

It's like really craving some food, getting it and it being exactly what you wanted, only to find a pubic hair in it. Yeah, you can suck it up, take out the hair and keep eating, but the euphoria is gone.

You deserve some kind of award for this post