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Input Bug: First results of a computer assisted analysis

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GGA soonk

GGA soonk

ĜĞÅ §ººñ|<®©™
webreg said:
Be sincere. Do you honestly think people will shut up about it if it happens to them during a tournament? Wasn't it you who yelled the loudest and talked about it on streams a lot? Maybe your own attitude has now changed but do you think other can do that as well? My own humble opinion is, that trying to sweep it under the rug and pretend it's not there is not good for the game because it will surface and people will complain. Providing them tools and info on how to possibly avoid it is probably the better way. More important than what it affects is what it doesn't affect so that people can not go around and blame the "input bug" for everything they do wrong. I think this is bad for the game and I happen to like MK9. That's my philosophy anyway.

Oh and before I forget. Thank you for the provided explanation. I know we won't get that info because of politics and potentially angry manufacturers but wouldn't it be swell to know with what device it happens the least or most?
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Do you really think it depends on the controller? I've recreated it with the pdp stick, with my homemade hitboxes(2 different pcbs), with ps3 pad, with ps2 pad... I mean really, I think the driver issue is just a copout. Holding down is holding down, and when you're coming out of a blockstring blocking low then trying to d1, I don't think it matters what device you use. It's a universal problem.
 
webreg

webreg

Apprentice
Robotic said:
Is it possible the bug occurs EVERY TIME you do ANYTHING on frame 5?
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I don't know yet. I guess it's possible but unlikely. You said yourself that blockstun happens often during a match and this seems to be much less prevalent than the "down poke" situation. I suppose it only affect the crouching state itself.
 
webreg

webreg

Apprentice
soonk said:
Do you really think it depends on the controller?
Click to expand...
No, not the controller itself but the driver that is used. Maybe something like sony bluetooth, sony usb, other bluetooth, other usb within the unreal engine. But that's just guessing.

I mean really, I think the driver issue is just a copout.
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It actually would make a lot of sense. The driver issue would most likely be with the unreal engine or their implementation of it, not the PS3 core stuff or it should happen with other fighters as well unless they mitigate it somehow. But all of that doesn't really matter. They say it can't be fixed and if it is a driver problem, then that's not entirely true but pretty damn close and from a practical point of view true enough.

Holding down is holding down, and when you're coming out of a blockstring blocking low then trying to d1, I don't think it matters what device you use. It's a universal problem.
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See, I made all of my test on the very same device in the very same configuration. So all of my evidence certainly applies to me and my testing environment. Maybe my findings would be different with other equipment. I don't know. I do not possess the resources (time, money, will) to test it out with other input devices so my results are actually somewhat devalued by the knowledge it might be driver dependent. Long story short, I have not the means available to challenge or confirm this claim and so I won't.
 
webreg

webreg

Apprentice
soonk said:
The solution is a shit alternative.
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Actually it isn't. The solution for down pokes is to simply press the button a split second after pressing "down". Don't do instant down pokes if you want to avoid the problem. The loss in speed is barely noticeable if at all and you won't get the error. And this is exactly what I'm speaking about. Every player can now decide for himself if he/she want's to do instant down pokes by pressing both buttons at the same time (easier) and take the chance of the "input bug" happening or press both buttons very fast after each other (harder and a tiny fraction slower) and make sure it doesn't happen. No reason to whine anymore, everyone can decide for himself.

In fighting games it's all about who is in control. If it is the game with seemingly random stuff happening that affects the outcome of a match then a fighting game is worthless in a competitive environment. Now we know that the bug isn't random with "down pokes", we know how and where it happens, so control is back in the hands of the players and they can master their fate accordingly. It doesn't even matter if the workarounds are good or not as long as they exist.
 
Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
soonk said:
The solution is a shit alternative.. Instead of holding crouch after blocking a low string or low attack, you have to let go of crouch then hit crouch and attack within a certain amount of time, but not too late!, because then you'd get the input bug. So now you need a 6 frame d1 to escape pressure but it's taking too long because you have to go to neutral first just because you're trying to avoid the bug. Sounds like fun.
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I question if that is the only instance tho that the bug can kick in. Why is it during wake-up attacks the input bug happens more with simultaneus presses as opposed to the hitting down then the button immediately after? I haven't tested it with blocked string if it occurs doing d+1 or d then 1 right after, but its one of the 2.

Gaining knowledge of what the notation is for getting the bug in each situation will at least help in reducing the occurences so we know how to avoid it.
 
Shadowfire

Shadowfire

Mortal
Tom Brady said:
i dont think im always getting input bugs on clones... i KNOW it. i just watched 99999 MKDC matches of mine. GL's db+1 is his green hand.. out of 999999 green hands know how many 1's or b1s i got? ZEROOOOOOO....

out of 99999999 green hands i missed 5... FIVE!!! and it was because i was early after the breaker. in MK9 i miss clones at least 30% of the time, i KNOW how to hit db+1. im going to say that 99% of the time that i get a B+1 that its the bug.
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30% of the time? I don't care if you are Tom Brady, that's just ridiculous.

It's doubly ridiculous considering that's not even the input bug in question.
 
webreg

webreg

Apprentice
Shadowfire said:
30% of the time? I don't care if you are Tom Brady, that's just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Don't question the math because if we do that we might come to the conclusion that Tom has gotten old and worthless (excluding the two years he spent watching those 99999 matches of himself).

MKvsDC: 99999999 moves, 5 missed = a miss every 20000000 = miss rate of 0.00000005%
MK9: 30% misses, 1% of them not by bug = miss rate of 0.3%
Tom Brady input proficiency has decreased by 6'000'000% between MK8 and MK9

:moonwalk:

Isn't math fun? So anyway, don't question the math man, it will make everything fall apart. Tom was only illustrating his point with colorful words.
 
GGA soonk

GGA soonk

ĜĞÅ §ººñ|<®©™
Slips said:
I question if that is the only instance tho that the bug can kick in. Why is it during wake-up attacks the input bug happens more with simultaneus presses as opposed to the hitting down then the button immediately after? I haven't tested it with blocked string if it occurs doing d+1 or d then 1 right after, but its one of the 2.

Gaining knowledge of what the notation is for getting the bug in each situation will at least help in reducing the occurences so we know how to avoid it.
Click to expand...
That's not the only instance, I'm just using that as an example as that's when it is most likely to come up and why you can't control it.
webreg said:
Actually it isn't. The solution for down pokes is to simply press the button a split second after pressing "down". Don't do instant down pokes if you want to avoid the problem. The loss in speed is barely noticeable if at all and you won't get the error. And this is exactly what I'm speaking about. Every player can now decide for himself if he/she want's to do instant down pokes by pressing both buttons at the same time (easier) and take the chance of the "input bug" happening or press both buttons very fast after each other (harder and a tiny fraction slower) and make sure it doesn't happen. No reason to whine anymore, everyone can decide for himself.

In fighting games it's all about who is in control. If it is the game with seemingly random stuff happening that affects the outcome of a match then a fighting game is worthless in a competitive environment. Now we know that the bug isn't random with "down pokes", we know how and where it happens, so control is back in the hands of the players and they can master their fate accordingly. It doesn't even matter if the workarounds are good or not as long as they exist.
Click to expand...
IDK why everybody is having such a hard time understanding this. It's not the instant downpokes that are really even what I'm talking about as the main concern(although, slips, let me know how you feel trying to AA d1 somebody and get standing 1, costing you the round, in tournament play). The problem is this:
Someone comes at you with a string ending in low(Jax or maybe QC idk).
You're already holding down and block.
The string is over, time to poke out.
BAM standing 1.

How is that avoided? I'm not going to stand then d1, that takes frames I don't have. This is why the input bug is a big issue.
 
Prinz

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
I think the bug should be explained as deep as possible to be avoided as much as possible. At the end of the day, MK9 is a completely new game in the MK series, and the best in my opinion, so it deserves a chance.
 
shura30

shura30

Shura
can this method be used to test the ex moves glitch?

i refer to the issue happening mostly when you input an ex move as soon as you release the block button, your character won't execute the special but your meter will still be drained

i don't know if it's related to non ex specials too
but the glitch is noticeable because you lose a stock

btw great job so far
congrats
 
R

rdw

Be cool...
[MENTION=4121]webreg[/MENTION], can you please do the tests tom asked you ? I also have that d1 ~ db1 issue and I feel that I did it just perfect.

Btw, great job so far
 
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