Injustice Stage Selection (Coin Toss Mechanic) -- Is it fair for tournament play?

[trufenix]

At this point you're just whiteknighting. It's like you're saying NRS is perfect and make no mistake. MK9 was a very good game but far from perfect. If they wish Injustice to improve they have to listen to criticism.

So either only the community knows whats best for Injustice or I'm whiteknighting. Okay. you win.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

So either only the community knows whats best for Injustice or I'm whiteknighting. Okay. you win.

It's up to you to see things as black or white. I've stated my opinion on the matter.

 

[Critical-Limit]

You're saying this like I have zero experience in Fighting Games. I know how different stages work in traditional 2d, traditional 3d and even Smash Bros. Yes they add depth to the game but seeing how INJUSTICE( this ONE GAME, NOT OTHERS) handles stage hazards it's looking a little bit ridiculous and random.

Not to mention since the hazards are asymmetrical, players would quarrel over ports to get a positional advantage. Something that could be solved by removing these.

And besides, this is MY opinion, are you saying my opinion is wrong? Where's the logic in that?

I obviously don't think you have "Zero experience". but did you even read what I said? I never said anything about smash brothers stages. and I wasn't talking about stages in traditional games. Just "corners" and how they are EXTREMELY similar to IGAU stage hazards.

They are not random. Please show me 1 example you found from a video that a stage hazard was "Random" please look up the definition of random first.

It's only going to "seem" random your first time learning the game because you don't know where they all are. But once you learn it, it's not random anymore.


I acknowlegded the symmetrical issue because the post after mine talked about it. Depending on the number of stages. What if there is a stage that is like reversed to a asymmetrical stage? we don't know all the stages yet. So if you want to start off with a car behind you. You can choose Stage X, over Stage B. Where if you switch ports, Stage B would have the car behind you and Stage X would put the car behind your opponent, thus making the p1/p2 ports redundant.

I'm not saying this is the case. But I'm not blind to the possibilities.


And no I did not say your "opinion" is wrong. But I have the opinion that you are narrowminded if you can't see the potential depth this could add if done right in the game.



EDIT: for the record, you definitely make yourself out to be someone who isn't well versed atleast in the competitive environment.

Because your approaching this element all wrong.

a competitive player will try to work around seeming obstacles first, because that creates another obstacle for everyone else to overcome. Thus building a bridge between noob and pro.

You are like a Starcraft 2 QQ'er where anytime you lose to a strategy/or map you IMMEDIATELY w/o enough data want it "Banned" and scream "imba"

wait for the game, collect data. Community decides the games future.

Don't call for day 1 TO's to ban stage hazards.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I obviously don't think you have "Zero experience". but did you even read what I said? I never said anything about smash brothers stages. and I wasn't talking about stages in traditional games. Just "corners" and how they are EXTREMELY similar to IGAU stage hazards.

They are not random. Please show me 1 example you found from a video that a stage hazard was "Random" please look up the definition of random first.

It's only going to "seem" random your first time learning the game because you don't know where they all are. But once you learn it, it's not random anymore.


I acknowlegded the symmetrical issue because the post after mine talked about it. Depending on the number of stages. What if there is a stage that is like reversed to a asymmetrical stage? we don't know all the stages yet. So if you want to start off with a car behind you. You can choose Stage X, over Stage B. Where if you switch ports, Stage B would have the car behind you and Stage X would put the car behind your opponent, thus making the p1/p2 ports redundant.

I'm not saying this is the case. But I'm not blind to the possibilities.


And no I did not say your "opinion" is wrong. But I have the opinion that you are narrowminded if you can't see the potential depth this could add if done right in the game.



EDIT: for the record, you definitely make yourself out to be someone who isn't well versed atleast in the competitive environment.

Because your approaching this element all wrong.

a competitive player will try to work around seeming obstacles first, because that creates another obstacle for everyone else to overcome. Thus building a bridge between noob and pro.

You are like a Starcraft 2 QQ'er where anytime you lose to a strategy/or map you IMMEDIATELY w/o enough data want it "Banned" and scream "imba"

wait for the game, collect data. Community decides the games future.

Don't call for day 1 TO's to ban stage hazards.

Fine, but watch how all of the stage hazard thing will just waste time by trying to have it explored. It's just like Smash Bros.

 

[Critical-Limit]

Fine, but watch how all of the stage hazard thing will just waste time by trying to have it explored. It's just like Smash Bros.

It wasn't a waste of time in Smash brothers. (I only play Melee btw, the good one...)

they banned the unfair stages, found a good set of overall fair stages. and the game was able to become something great.


And you can't compare smash stages to Injustice stages. which is why I didn't make that comparison even though you keep doing so.

In SMASH, they have many stages that do have TRUE random stage hazards. like exploding apples that fall from a tree on Green greens. or exploding blocks. Let's be serious here Smash bros stages wasn't designed with the intent for competitive play.

where as IGAU stages are designed for competitive play. And EVERY hazard I've seen so far, is fair/readable/and easily able to be aware of it's presence.

Smash brothers does have some "asymmetrical stages" and not once have I heard someone whine about starting on the right/left side. As I said before with a huge stage list which I hope we get. and the fact hat you can CHOOSE counterpicks will make this almost redundant. I really doubt your character is only gonna have 1 counterpick and it has to be p1 port priority for it to work the way you want it.


anyways my only point and the only reason I decided to respond to you. Is because you are trying to bash/argue about something that we don't know enough about.

instead of saying ignorant things like "only smart TO's will ban them."

Why can't you say "If this happens with the stage hazards, I think they should be banned." And back up your point with evidence if you have any. Otherwise you're just theorizing the worse case scenario. And trying to take the game down a path before we even get to try out the feature.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I think they are trying to find fixes to non-issues which MK players made too much into issues. If hazards are off the only thing which should matter about the stage is your favourite background animations... All stages should be equal.

I hope we leave hazards on.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

It wasn't a waste of time in Smash brothers. (I only play Melee btw, the good one...)

they banned the unfair stages, found a good set of overall fair stages. and the game was able to become something great.


And you can't compare smash stages to Injustice stages. which is why I didn't make that comparison even though you keep doing so.

In SMASH, they have many stages that do have TRUE random stage hazards. like exploding apples that fall from a tree on Green greens. or exploding blocks. Let's be serious here Smash bros stages wasn't designed with the intent for competitive play.

where as IGAU stages are designed for competitive play. And EVERY hazard I've seen so far, is fair/readable/and easily able to be aware of it's presence.

Smash brothers does have some "asymmetrical stages" and not once have I heard someone whine about starting on the right/left side. As I said before with a huge stage list which I hope we get. and the fact hat you can CHOOSE counterpicks will make this almost redundant. I really doubt your character is only gonna have 1 counterpick and it has to be p1 port priority for it to work the way you want it.


anyways my only point and the only reason I decided to respond to you. Is because you are trying to bash/argue about something that we don't know enough about.

instead of saying ignorant things like "only smart TO's will ban them."

Why can't you say "If this happens with the stage hazards, I think they should be banned." And back up your point with evidence if you have any. Otherwise you're just theorizing the worse case scenario. And trying to take the game down a path before we even get to try out the feature.

Because for one, I have poor choice of words. And two, I feel we shouldn't be wasting time on such things instead of just ridding them and go straight on developing the characters.

 

[Critical-Limit]

Because for one, I have poor choice of words. And two, I feel we shouldn't be wasting time on such things instead of just ridding them and go straight on developing the characters.

It's not a waste of time if it makes the game deeper.

That's like Banning Vanilla kung lao, because you watched a few videos and he looked super OP and unfair. And wanted the community to not waste time developing a broken character and instead get rid of him through a ban, and go straight into developing the "other characters"

Stages with hazards is as much as part of the game when it's intended to be, as characters themselves.


For the record no one here is against "banning stage hazards" but that's only *IF* they turn out to be broken/unfair/random.

which no evidence to share the last 3 has presented itself.

The only conclusion I can think of, of why you don't want to give it a chance, is you just simply don't want it to be a part of the game. Because you don't want to have to learn stages/positioning.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

It's not a waste of time if it makes the game deeper.

That's like Banning Vanilla kung lao, because you watched a few videos and he looked super OP and unfair. And wanted the community to not waste time developing a broken character and instead get rid of him through a ban, and go straight into developing the "other characters"

Stages with hazards is as much as part of the game when it's intended to be, as characters themselves.

I UNDERSTAND THAT. I(personal opinion) think it's stupid.----------------->(PERSONAL OPINION) <-------------------

 

[Critical-Limit]

I UNDERSTAND THAT. I(personal opinion) think it's stupid.----------------->(PERSONAL OPINION) <-------------------

your logic has no backing. you could atleast entertain me with an "example" of why it's stupid/bad idea.

But you can't even do that.

That's like coming into a thread and saying "Brown is ugly'

Well um... no one cares?

Now if you came in and said "Brown is the color of poop, so I think it's ugly"

well atleast I can see why you think that way.

but if you can't do that then you're just blindly stating your opinion and FORCING your opinion based on nothing, and trying to get people to ban it day 1, because you just "don't like it"

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

your logic has no backing. you could atleast entertain me with an "example" of why it's stupid/bad idea.

But you can't even do that.

That's like coming into a thread and saying "Brown is ugly'

Well um... no one cares?

Now if you came in and said "Brown is the color of poop, so I think it's ugly"

well atleast I can see why you think that way.

but if you can't do that then you're just blindly stating your opinion and FORCING your opinion based on nothing, and trying to get people to ban it day 1, because you just "don't like it"

I already have. I'm not going to repeat them again. And again as for banning it, it's A PERSONAL OPINION I'm not going to put up a petition to get stage hazards banned in tournaments.

Again, you're bashing an opinion. YOUR MO doesn't make sense.

EDIT: As for your analogy, in the end, you're still bashing an opinion. Why would you say someone is wrong for not liking a color because he didn't explain why? Maybe he doesn't like brown 'cause HE DOESN'T LIKE BROWN. End of story.

 

[Critical-Limit]

I already have. I'm not going to repeat them again. And again as for banning it, it's A PERSONAL OPINION I'm not going to put up a petition to get stage hazards banned in tournaments.

Again, you're bashing an opinion. YOUR MO doesn't make sense.

lol I'm not bashing an opinion, I'm bashing your logic.

these are 2 different things.


you making a statement that "smart TO's will ban it day 1"

That's already a movement to try and get it banned. you put pressure on TOs (whether they get pressured by you is up to them) but those words create the possibility of pressure saying "you're dumb if you don't ban it."

how is that any different than a kid saying "you'll be cool too if you smoke this cigarette."

Both have insult implied to anyone who doesn't go along with your opinion.



once again I know it's an opinion. I don't believe at anytime I denied it being an opinion? but once again....

The reason you won't answer my questions is because your logical reasonings for forming your opinion sucks and has no backbone structure to it. you can't logically tell me why it's a bad part of the game, because there is none with the information we know so far.

Let's be real here. It's just your selfish opinion, where you don't want to have to deal/learn stage hazards/positioning. You want shit simple/and or in your comfort zone.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

lol I'm not bashing an opinion, I'm bashing your logic.

these are 2 different things.


you making a statement that "smart TO's will ban it day 1"

That's already a movement to try and get it banned. you put pressure on TOs (whether they get pressured by you is up to them) but those words create the possibility of pressure saying "you're dumb if you don't ban it."

how is that any different than a kid saying "you'll be cool too if you smoke this cigarette."

Both have insult implied to anyone who doesn't go along with your opinion.



once again I know it's an opinion. I don't believe at anytime I denied it being an opinion? but once again....

The reason you won't answer my questions is because your logical reasonings for forming your opinion sucks and has no backbone structure to it. you can't logically tell me why it's a bad part of the game, because there is none with the information we know so far.

Let's be real here. It's just your selfish opinion, where you don't want to have to deal/learn stage hazards/positioning. You want shit simple/and or in your comfort zone.

There's also a difference between pressuring TO's and simply hoping. How is 1 post going to pressure TO's into banning stage hazards? I'm merely doing the same as all the people hoping their favorite DC character would be in the game. And I'm not even going as far as the Raven fans.

Call it selfish if you will, that's YOUR opinion. One I take into consideration but not completely bash. Have a good night or day wherever you live.

I'm just going to recap for the last time why I think stage hazards shouldn't be in tournies:

-Fighting over ports
-Asymmetrical stages will affect match-ups(don't mind too much but still a con for me)
-Possibility of stupid exploit
-Unnecessary depth
-Over time we'll see the same 3-4 stages cycled thus having less variety(same as #2)
-Has the possibility making a character completely overpowered or completely trash tier

Another thing I just remembered, this is also the case of MK9 Tag mode. It's there, it could be explored more, but it's stupid and unnecessary thus nobody touches it. But since it's too broken players have decided to not even try it. But what happened to the exploration and knowledge regarding tag? Nobdy cares. Only Check and TONY-T use them for combo video purposes.

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

I don't believe in stage selecting. Except for the desert....that stage is annoying -_-

 

[ninjay]

If the stages are the same width, random select in tournaments is fine just as long as there are no stage interactions.

You work so hard to get your opponent in the corner so you can set up strong pressure and mix ups, and then your opponent can just press a stage interaction to get out of the corner and reset the situation. Not like a tech roll or anything where you can setup in anticipation for that.... It's a half screen free position reset, and then you are the one that can be put in the corner!! You reward for trying to put yourself in great positioning is getting fucked in the ass by losing your momentum a noob who doesn't want to learn how to block or defend.

It will be fun to use online or casuals, but not in tournaments.

Who knows, maybe it will be different.

 

[GRieVeR_SKeiTH]

*reads topic title *ponders question "Is a cointoss fair?" *goes to makes coffee

 

[Zoidberg747]

If the stages are the same width, random select in tournaments is fine just as long as there are no stage interactions.

You work so hard to get your opponent in the corner so you can set up strong pressure and mix ups, and then your opponent can just press a stage interaction to get out of the corner and reset the situation. Not like a tech roll or anything where you can setup in anticipation for that.... It's a half screen free position reset, and then you are the one that can be put in the corner!! You reward for trying to put yourself in great positioning is getting fucked in the ass by losing your momentum a noob who doesn't want to learn how to block or defend.

It will be fun to use online or casuals, but not in tournaments.

Who knows, maybe it will be different.

What's funny is you sound like a noob by complaining how someone doesnt have to block or defend. YOU want to not have to be able to adapt to stage hazards, which is pretty much the same thing.

You do realize that characters with a teleport can often teleport out of the corner and make you cornered? That's why instead of pressuring them up close like an idiot, you stay a teleport's distance away from them and leave them nowhere to go. Same with stage hazards, you sit back and let them try and use it, punish it and then you can pressure. Or keep them cornered while remaining a safe distance away.

Or you could just ban them for no reason. Why not ban teleports too?

 

[Compbros]

It's fair, interactions should be on, try before you dismiss.


I will say this, I will NEVER pick/counter-pick stages because I don't care, I want to see who's the better player at that point and I don't want picking a better stage for me or a worst stage for them to be the reason I won.

 

[MisterSpyker]

Honestly doubt that any stage can really give so much of an edge to a certain character, that it'd make any sense to turn off stage hazards.

Get a grip on yourselves.

 

[Compbros]

Honestly doubt that any stage can really give so much of an edge to a certain character, that it'd make any sense to turn off stage hazards.

Get a grip on yourselves.

Dunno about that, some stages shown can vastly help zoning characters get away from an unfavorable situation.

 

[MisterSpyker]

Dunno about that, some stages shown can vastly help zoning characters get away from an unfavorable situation.

They can do the opposite as well, and there's a crapton of armored moves. I seriously doubt that this'll be an actual issue. Sounds more like people whining about things they still don't know about.

 

[Compbros]

They can do the opposite as well, and there's a crapton of armored moves. I seriously doubt that this'll be an actual issue. Sounds more like people whining about things they still don't know about.

What do you mean the opposite?


Yeah, people are already asking for no stage interactions, I don't get it.

 

[MisterSpyker]

What do you mean the opposite?


Yeah, people are already asking for no stage interactions, I don't get it.

It can help someone being zoned get away from that zoning, like the bat mobile missiles, or the jump boosters for gadget cars. This all just begins to look like the people trying to discuss if Raven was broken, or who was gonna be top tier, or other pointless stuff like that. We haven't played the game, we can't have a serious discussion on it.

 

[AYSAMO]

No, the time where the community rightfully claimed that the Clash system and Stage hazards are going to kill the game. And NRS acted on it.



They're a gimmick. Supposed to be for fun. if there's an option to turn them off, I say turn them off. Besides, are you really going to rely on testers that are only testing the game for a short amount of time and not while in development? Look at MK9.

They're actively testing Injustice, not waiting until the last 2 weeks before they ship to get a few bugs out. The stage interactions actually seem legit now, a year ago I thought they were wack and gimmicky but hey, if I can use something in the stage to turn a bad matchup in my favor I'm cool with that. Stage transitions however still remain stupid imo.

 

[ninjay]

Are the stage interactions that inflict damage blockable?