Injustice Stage Selection (Coin Toss Mechanic) -- Is it fair for tournament play?

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Who planned that? What tournament organizer is turning hazards off?

Hopefully the smart ones.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Hopefully the smart ones.

So a testing team of top-tier MK9, MvC3, AE, and SFxT players aren't good enough to make sure they're balanced? dayum

 

[trufenix]

Considering the date you joined TYM, you weren't there when stage hazards were first revealed here.

You mean back when nobody knew anything and the entire community just assumed this game was gonna be Smash Bros with more capes?

 

[Deleted member 5032]

If we are going by our current rules, then if cage losses he still gets pick on next stage anyway and kabal would have to concur

I agree with this. I think for the initial stage choice, it's totally fair, but after the first round, the loser should be able to select their preferred stage.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

You mean back when nobody knew anything and the entire community just assumed this game was gonna be Smash Bros with more capes?

No, the time where the community rightfully claimed that the Clash system and Stage hazards are going to kill the game. And NRS acted on it.

So a testing team of top-tier MK9, MvC3, AE, and SFxT players aren't good enough to make sure they're balanced? dayum

They're a gimmick. Supposed to be for fun. if there's an option to turn them off, I say turn them off. Besides, are you really going to rely on testers that are only testing the game for a short amount of time and not while in development? Look at MK9.

 

[Law Hero]

Hmmm, I really like it.

Would the new tournament rule be, 50/50 for every round, or will the loser get to pick the stage?

 

[Tim Static]

Hopefully, there will be no banned stages with something that might end up with the game randomly choosing for you.

If we are going by our current rules, then if cage losses he still gets pick on next stage anyway and kabal would have to concur

We don't have current rules for IGAU

 

[trufenix]

No, the time where the community rightfully claimed that the Clash system and Stage hazards are going to kill the game. And NRS acted on it.

"the community" fixed a thing they'd never even got their hands on, and was noted incomplete from day one? How do you even quantify that?

They're a gimmick. Supposed to be for fun. if there's an option to turn them off, I say turn them off.

Says who? Show me your Gimmick Police badge. NRS has said time and again they want them to be an important part of the gameplay. Or is this something else "the community" just knows and needs to save tourney life as we know it from?

 

[IrishMantis]

Hopefully the smart ones.

Ever hear that saying dont deny it till you try it??
why you so prejudice about it, before even trying it?? cmon man give it a chance and yeah i have seen a few heads in the early days say they dont like it, but as time goes by i see them same heads change their minds and actually embrace the idea.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Ever hear that saying dont deny it till you try it??
why you so prejudice about it, before even trying it?? cmon man give it a chance and yeah i have seen a few heads in the early days say they dont like it, but as time goes by i see them same heads change their minds and actually embrace the idea.

Never said I wouldn't give it a chance. But to leave it in for tournament standard I think will be bad.

"the community" fixed a thing they'd never even got their hands on, and was noted incomplete from day one? How do you even quantify that?



Says who? Show me your Gimmick Police badge. NRS has said time and again they want them to be an important part of the gameplay. Or is this something else "the community" just knows and needs to save tourney life as we know it from?

If the community hadn't "bitched" about the stage hazards and the clash system, they wouldv'e left it as is and would've ruined Injustice altogether.

There was also an announcement that Hector made in an interview which claimed that stage hazards could be turned off for tournament play.

 

[ninjay]

Who planned that? What tournament organizer is turning hazards off?

I am!

 

[CCVengeance]

I'm surprised at people actually wanting to turn off interactables.
As for the topic at hand I think it's cool.

 

[Big Frog]

Are all the stages the same size in Injustice?? I wish they'd all be the same.

 

[The Borax Kid]

The stage select fairness will probably boil down to if stage interaction is allowed or not.

And wanting to interact strictly with your opponent as opposed to chaining combos with background stuff is a huge issue that is really up in the air at the moment.

 

[Folux182]

I honestly see nothing wrong with leaving the hazards in the game. Right now it seems like it adds more complexity and depth to the game than anything else. I think the community consensus is to keep the hazards in unless it proves to be unbalanced. It adds strategy, stage positioning, and position specific combos. On the case of stage selection, I think that the system they have set up will just make things run smoother especially at the beginning of the games tournament life but it still allows flexibility and adjustment if the community wants to add rules to stage selection later on.

 

[Death]

Originally I thought the stage hazards would be broken but I'm coming around. I think they should be kept in and I liked hearing about Hector saying they toned down some things.

 

[Rokinlobster]

So a testing team of top-tier MK9, MvC3, AE, and SFxT players aren't good enough to make sure they're balanced? dayum

Way to blow up every one who tested MK9.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Way to blow up every one who tested MK9.

That's exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to say. I believe that everyone who tested MK9 was 100% competent and given the short period of time they had, they did an excellent job. For 1 week they did great, imagine what NRS can do with all of these diverse people and even more testing time! This is nothing but singing praise of NRS.

 

[trufenix]

If the community hadn't "bitched" about the stage hazards and the clash system, they wouldv'e left it as is and would've ruined Injustice altogether.

You don't even have a fraction of proof that any of the changes are the result of people bitching. Is it not even remotely possible NRS is capable of making game design changes without your benevolence?

There was also an announcement that Hector made in an interview which claimed that stage hazards could be turned off for tournament play.

You can turn off the timer too, is that a result of the tournament crowd's intervention? Maybe they were just tired of people like you complaining about something you'd never seen.

 

[FrothyOmen]

So, now that I've thought about this for a while, I have two ways that we could potentially handle stage selection in tournament play for Injustice.

1) Map Pool + veto system, as I described previously (LINK!)

2) Players will follow the 50/50 system for stage pick 1, and following that it's loser's pick

Both of these seem pretty fair to me, just as long as we are not using a coin flip for every single match I think we will be fine. I just can't see anyone ever letting their parent get the stage they want, if it were me I'd go for my 50/50 shot at stealing their map pick from them every single time. Kinda unfair lol

 

[Critical-Limit]

Never said I wouldn't give it a chance. But to leave it in for tournament standard I think will be bad.



If the community hadn't "bitched" about the stage hazards and the clash system, they wouldv'e left it as is and would've ruined Injustice altogether.

There was also an announcement that Hector made in an interview which claimed that stage hazards could be turned off for tournament play.

It's good to show concern, which is why NRS gave us the ability to turn it off "Just in case." But I believe they are still trying to make a legit part of the touranment experience.


Let me explain it this way, since your mind can't seem to grasp how this can work.

In MK9.... there are these things called corners. Some people do REALLY REALLY well in them. Some people if not most, can greatly increase their combo damage by having this "positional advantage"

how is opening up a combo in the corner, gonna be any different than opening up a combo with dangling electric wires to extend your combo?

If anything this will make combos more DEEP, because you're gonna have to convert your combos based on your positioning, and it's not as simple as "oh I'm in the corner." Now you're gonna have "On top of the car combo" mid screen away from the car combo. Or direclty under the dangling electric wire combos. or the dangling wires are full screen away but you have a way to combo into them to extend combo.

Do you see the potential for skill gap here?

One of the reasons I love smash is because the combo system in Smash bros with the DI/SDI (direcitonal influence) combos had to be created/converted/reacted to the entire way through.

These stage hazards will create a small similar type thing. The opponent won't control themselves, but they can control their positioning, so if they make a mistake at one spot on the stage, they will eat alot less damage than if they make the same mistake at a different location.

It creates a very interesting aspect of positioning making a much bigger impact than before.

It's not like the stage is going to randomly attack you. like random falling bombs are gonna fall from a B-10 bomber flying by.


the first tournaments should DEFINITELY give it a shot. let the community break the game (if it can be broken) then either stage fixes will come, or the community will ban it.


But until then. If you can't see the potential, You're extremely narrowminded.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think that 50/50 for the first stage, with the loser of the round having an option to pick a stage of their choice, would be a very fair way to handle stage selection. That way you keep the the element of stage selection strategy in, while making the 1st pick completely fair in an impartial way.

My hope, though, is that a lot of the mobility tools given to characters make the stage sizes less of an issue than they were in MK9. If everyone has sufficient tools to cover distance quickly, it'd help mitigate the need to be on a smaller or larger stage.

The only other caveat you'd have to cover is P1 vs. P2 side -- presumably, if the hazards are different on each side of the stage, then one player will start closer to a particular item/interaction. So there would need to be a fair way of working that out if stage interactions become important elements of gameplay.

 

[Critical-Limit]

The only other caveat you'd have to cover is P1 vs. P2 side -- presumably, if the hazards are different on each side of the stage, then one player will start closer to a particular item/interaction. So there would need to be a fair way of working that out if stage interactions become important elements of gameplay.

this is a very nice point. Since from what I've seen Stages are not technically symetrical. Someone could have an advantage on a stage because he has p1 port. I don't think it's game breaking, but it's definitely something that's a factor.


I imagine this might make it where you'll have a different counterpick for a matchup depending on if your P1 or P2. Possibly.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

You don't even have a fraction of proof that any of the changes are the result of people bitching. Is it not even remotely possible NRS is capable of making game design changes without your benevolence?



You can turn off the timer too, is that a result of the tournament crowd's intervention? Maybe they were just tired of people like you complaining about something you'd never seen.

At this point you're just whiteknighting. It's like you're saying NRS is perfect and make no mistake. MK9 was a very good game but far from perfect. If they wish Injustice to improve they have to listen to criticism.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

It's good to show concern, which is why NRS gave us the ability to turn it off "Just in case." But I believe they are still trying to make a legit part of the touranment experience.


Let me explain it this way, since your mind can't seem to grasp how this can work.

In MK9.... there are these things called corners. Some people do REALLY REALLY well in them. Some people if not most, can greatly increase their combo damage by having this "positional advantage"

how is opening up a combo in the corner, gonna be any different than opening up a combo with dangling electric wires to extend your combo?

If anything this will make combos more DEEP, because you're gonna have to convert your combos based on your positioning, and it's not as simple as "oh I'm in the corner." Now you're gonna have "On top of the car combo" mid screen away from the car combo. Or direclty under the dangling electric wire combos. or the dangling wires are full screen away but you have a way to combo into them to extend combo.

Do you see the potential for skill gap here?

One of the reasons I love smash is because the combo system in Smash bros with the DI/SDI (direcitonal influence) combos had to be created/converted/reacted to the entire way through.

These stage hazards will create a small similar type thing. The opponent won't control themselves, but they can control their positioning, so if they make a mistake at one spot on the stage, they will eat alot less damage than if they make the same mistake at a different location.

It creates a very interesting aspect of positioning making a much bigger impact than before.

It's not like the stage is going to randomly attack you. like random falling bombs are gonna fall from a B-10 bomber flying by.


the first tournaments should DEFINITELY give it a shot. let the community break the game (if it can be broken) then either stage fixes will come, or the community will ban it.


But until then. If you can't see the potential, You're extremely narrowminded.

You're saying this like I have zero experience in Fighting Games. I know how different stages work in traditional 2d, traditional 3d and even Smash Bros. Yes they add depth to the game but seeing how INJUSTICE( this ONE GAME, NOT OTHERS) handles stage hazards it's looking a little bit ridiculous and random.

Not to mention since the hazards are asymmetrical, players would quarrel over ports to get a positional advantage. Something that could be solved by removing these.

And besides, this is MY opinion, are you saying my opinion is wrong? Where's the logic in that?