Injustice - "Developer Diaries", Behind the Battles of Injustice w/ Joker's Laugh - Is it Hamill?

[VOR]

I disagree. Just about every recent fighting game (say, post SF4) has endured intense scrutiny from the competitive fanbase over their "new & experimental" features and maybe one of them has wound up critically broken by what was bitched about loudest.

I would not take Hector's statement about stage select dependancy as law any more than you would when they say a Super Moves is the most powerful use of meter, or character x can only be played in y way or such and such. These things just cannot be predicted, so why bother being negative?

Because we're allowed to voice our concerns about potential issues we see, therefore showing that we care. Plus, that was an obvious joke anyways.

 

[Euphoric]

If you try to use logic/realism in comparison to video games, please, just...

 

[Skkra]

Since stage counterpicking is already something the competitive scene does, this seems like a logical next step.

Only in MK9, to get the biggest or smallest stage possible. In Street Fighter and Marvel, stages are a uniform size. There's a reason football is always played on the same regulation field.

Having a stage do something like actually change a matchup from 6-4 to 5-5 is an awful idea. The character balance and system mechanics should define the gameplay of a fighter at a competitive level, not managing to get a stage your character has a distinct advantage when doing random select.

 

[Ninj]

Only in MK9, to get the biggest or smallest stage possible. In Street Fighter and Marvel, stages are a uniform size. There's a reason football is always played on the same regulation field.

Having a stage do something like actually change a matchup from 6-4 to 5-5 is an awful idea. The character balance and system mechanics should define the gameplay of a fighter at a competitive level, not managing to get a stage your character has a distinct advantage when doing random select.

Where have you been my whole life?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[hecterrific]

Only in MK9, to get the biggest or smallest stage possible. In Street Fighter and Marvel, stages are a uniform size. There's a reason football is always played on the same regulation field.

Having a stage do something like actually change a matchup from 6-4 to 5-5 is an awful idea. The character balance and system mechanics should define the gameplay of a fighter at a competitive level, not managing to get a stage your character has a distinct advantage when doing random select.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

Do I really need to reply in here and hurt terrible developers feelings?

Very tempting...

-__-

#isindon'tgiveafuckmode

 

[Eddy Wang]

The Krytonian Banishing world is in, OMFG

 

[Reedoms]

Do I really need to reply in here and hurt terrible developers feelings?

Hasn't made a difference the other times you've posted.

 

[Skkra]

Awesome TBL gif

Understood, and I'm sure you'll balance things, but I know a lot of people certainly aren't interested in competitively playing a game where you'd say "Oh yeah, I'm the best Ermac in the USA... on the Living Forest stage."

Then again, competitive players make up about .0001% of sales, so I guess really it doesn't matter that much when it comes to the bottom line.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Do I really need to reply in here and hurt terrible developers feelings?

Very tempting...

-__-

#isindon'tgiveafuckmode

Go ahead pal, I need a good laugh.

 

[trufenix]

Understood, and I'm sure you'll balance things, but I know a lot of people certainly aren't interested in competitively playing a game where you'd say "Oh yeah, I'm the best Ermac in the USA... on the Living Forest stage."

Then again, competitive players make up about .0001% of sales, so I guess really it doesn't matter that much when it comes to the bottom line.

I doubt the goal is to make a character "suck" on one stage to compensate for being good on another. I think the idea is to have varying playstyles depending on stage select. No one has ever balanced a character by saying sure he's overpowered 90% of the time, but he also has these three 1/9 matchups against low tier so our work here is done. That'd be stupid. You want to make everyone good in some way or another in all cases.

Smash (and its ilk) have limited stage select because EVERYONE sucks on most stages. Nobody is good on Rainbow Ride, its a fucking trainwreck of a match that no one can call.

Meanwhile, SC / VF and even Tekken are full of characters who play great on stages with or without RO / wall opportunities. Which is why competitive stage select in those games is always random. You just have to know how and when they might fuck you up and compensate. Its no different than a character being better with or without meter or in open space or in the corner.

 

[Skkra]

Meanwhile, SC / VF and even Tekken are full of characters who play great on stages with or without RO / wall opportunities. Which is why competitive stage select in those games is always random. You just have to know how and when they might fuck you up and compensate. Its no different than a character being better with or without meter or in open space or in the corner.

It's not the same thing. In Tekken, both characters get the wall, or both characters don't. Walls behave the same for all characters - the mechanics of wallsplats and fall speed are universal. There are not different types of walls. There is no wall that Jin gets bonus damage on that Lars does not. It's just a wall.

The statement here seemed to be that because each stage has its own unique hazard, both in the way it acts and its placement, that certain characters could gain a real benefit from the stage. For example, if there is a ceiling hazard, a character who has a juggle that happens to knock you high into the air would have a definitive advantage on that stage, whereas a character whose juggles are linear and keep the opponent low to the ground would not.

 

[trufenix]

It's not the same thing. In Tekken, both characters get the wall, or both characters don't. Walls behave the same for all characters - the mechanics of wallsplats and fall speed are universal. There are not different types of walls. There is no wall that Jin gets bonus damage on that Lars does not. It's just a wall.

I fail to see the difference, unless you really think every character in Tekken has the same calibur wall game (untrue). In a sense Lars does get a bonus to damage by walls because Lars' corner combos are fantastic. Meanwhile, Christie's are not. This is the same as how not all chars in MK9 having the same strength corner game and not all character in SF have the same cross up / vortex game. Injustice arena interacts are just an extension of your characters tool set.

The statement here seemed to be that because each stage has its own unique hazard, both in the way it acts and its placement, that certain characters could gain a real benefit from the stage. For example, if there is a ceiling hazard, a character who has a juggle that happens to knock you high into the air would have a definitive advantage on that stage, whereas a character whose juggles are linear and keep the opponent low to the ground would not.

This is the exact point of the system, but to say a character will be totally gimped because he has no use for the electric wires on batcave or the car on metropolis is absurd. Is every projectile character worthless against Nightwolf because he can bounce them? Again, its just tools. It'll be up to NRS to balance them the same as they do punches and kicks, but even if they pull a Hilde in SCIV level failure that doesn't mean the system of arena based moves is inherently flawed, cause its existed in some sense as far back as Virtua Fighter 1.

 

[Skkra]

I fail to see the difference, unless you really think every character in Tekken has the same calibur wall game (untrue). In a sense Lars does get a bonus to damage by walls because Lars' corner combos are fantastic. Meanwhile, Christie's are not. This is the same as how not all chars in MK9 having the same strength corner game and not all character in SF have the same cross up / vortex game. Injustice arena interacts are just an extension of your characters tool set.

I do see what you're saying... yes, Lars can do a bunch of wall damage, but that's not because of a specific wall - it's his moveset combining with the universal system mechanics. Lars can do the same wall combo on any wall in the game.

When a vortex character gets a great setup in the corner, it's because their moveset is taking advantage of the universal system mechanics. All stages are equal in this. Akuma doesn't have a better corner vortex on any one stage... it's the same on every stage.

I understand that yes, NRS will have to balance out the stage hazards and how each character plays on them, but considering that tiny/huge stage picking is already a well known issue in MK9 play depending on your character, I'm personally always wary of variable stage mechanics in a competitive game. There's a reason that EVERY competitive game of Tekken 4 was played in the arena (and that level still had issues!)

 

[trufenix]

I do see what you're saying... yes, Lars can do a bunch of wall damage, but that's not because of a specific wall - it's his moveset combining with the universal system mechanics. Lars can do the same wall combo on any wall in the game.


When a vortex character gets a great setup in the corner, it's because their moveset is taking advantage of the universal system mechanics. All stages are equal in this. Akuma doesn't have a better corner vortex on any one stage... it's the same on every stage.

Unfortunately, we're crossing over into a territory of discussion that will devolve into an argument until we have actual gameplay details so I'll just say this, I'm not really sure what Injustice footage you've been watching but it sounds like you're mountaining this molehill. Even if Superman's car slam turns out to be godlike, we're still talking one move he only gets to use in a corner of the stage. If only half the stages in the game have this particular interaction 1x or even 2x, then yes a Superman player would therefore pick said stage and yes, have an advantage vs a stage that lacks it. But is your concern really that somehow having a corner escape, single use unblockable or extra projectile going to automatically 9-1 or even 6-4 a match? The footage just doesn't support this logic.

I understand that yes, NRS will have to balance out the stage hazards and how each character plays on them, but considering that tiny/huge stage picking is already a well known issue in MK9 play depending on your character, I'm personally always wary of variable stage mechanics in a competitive game. There's a reason that EVERY competitive game of Tekken 4 was played in the arena (and that level still had issues!)

And this is kind of confirmation of my supposition. Will anyone on this board actually stand up and say they've banned stages (beyond Streets and Athena's Temple) in serious MK9 play? There's just no evidence for such concern. Yes, things change on different stages, but tell me what stage dramatically changes the actual fate of a Stryker / Sheeva or Kung Lao / Kabal player? Does Cyrax automatically stop dominating half the cast on Clock Tower or Living Forest?

Your statement about T4 is just not true. Google it, youtube it, whatever. I played T4 competitively, even traveled for it. Outside of the Parking Garage, Mob, and Mall, which weren't always addressed, I never encountered stage restrictions, and even those were only because some characters could hide behind obstructions, or violently glitch the game.

Background interactions and the notion that they can influence the outcome of a match get a bad rap because of the myriad of games where absurd shit happens randomly, like tigers and cars and waterfalls and all that garbage that nobody can predict or control or strategize. In the games where the devs put the elements in player control, strategy is perfectly attainable. The system is not inherently risky.