What's new

Injustice - All characters will have unique lines of dialogue when entering "Clash"

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow

I don't think there's a need to do an entire poll and send it NRS for a mechanic 95 percent of us have never even tried. We also don't know how important meter management is and that makes a huge impact on my decision whether clash is viable or not.

Also, people make it sound like clash is going to be in every match, it's more than likely not. Who, in a tournament, is willing to spend meter to increase their health a bit or do a little more damage? If meter isn't as important as it was in MK9 then clash will be used, if it is as important then clash won't.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Also, people make it sound like clash is going to be in every match, it's more than likely not. Who, in a tournament, is willing to spend meter to increase their health a bit or do a little more damage? If meter isn't as important as it was in MK9 then clash will be used, if it is as important then clash won't.
It is going to happen in every match, at least once. Twice, if its any kind of close match.

First and foremost, its a breaker. There hasn't been a serious MK match since the first major where a breaker didn't come into play. Second, its free health. If you're losing, and you have more meter than opponent, just troll clash for free health, there's no reason not to since its Vampire Life instead of Street Fighter life. And last, you can bluff your opponent out of his meter. If its a close match, one of the first two scenarios WILL play out, then its just a matter of who can trick who into burning their meter.

By the second major we will have crowds and streams chanting clash dialogue because we will have seen the same 8 top tier characters clash a hundred times over.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
It is going to happen in every match, at least once. Twice, if its any kind of close match.

First and foremost, its a breaker. There hasn't been a serious MK match since the first major where a breaker didn't come into play. Second, its free health. If you're losing, and you have more meter than opponent, just troll clash for free health, there's no reason not to since its Vampire Life instead of Street Fighter life. And last, you can bluff your opponent out of his meter. If its a close match, one of the first two scenarios WILL play out, then its just a matter of who can trick who into burning their meter.

By the second major we will have crowds and streams chanting clash dialogue because we will have seen the same 8 top tier characters clash a hundred times over.

It can only be done once IIRC but I'm not sure.

Yes it is but it is not a MK style breaker as you can be hurt by it as the initiator. MK breaker is a "get off me, I don't wanna take this damage/create space thing", Injustice is a "get off me, I don't wanna take damage but now I probably have to wager meter or else I'm still gonna take damage anyway". It's not "free" health as it comes at the expense of meter and you may not even get it through the wagering. Even if you do have more than your opponent then you're still giving up a ton of meter for a slight health regain. Yes you can, but if you're behind then your still taking meter so unless you clash really early into your second health bar then it's not gonna be a great strategy.


I don't think so but if you do that's fine.
 
I'm reserving judgement on the clash system mechanic until I try it out. I might be really worried if they hadn't limited it's use but they did so now I'm much more willing to give it a shot. I am very excited about the unique dialog though....I'm tempted to play around w/ everyone just to discover what people say; it should add some fun touches to the game.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
It can only be done once IIRC but I'm not sure.

Yes it is but it is not a MK style breaker as you can be hurt by it as the initiator. MK breaker is a "get off me, I don't wanna take this damage/create space thing", Injustice is a "get off me, I don't wanna take damage but now I probably have to wager meter or else I'm still gonna take damage anyway". It's not "free" health as it comes at the expense of meter and you may not even get it through the wagering. Even if you do have more than your opponent then you're still giving up a ton of meter for a slight health regain. Yes you can, but if you're behind then your still taking meter so unless you clash really early into your second health bar then it's not gonna be a great strategy.

I don't think so but if you do that's fine.
Well, each player gets one when the lose a lifebar, so at most there will be two a match. But here's the thing, unless its an absolute blowout, a point will always come when the losing player has less life and more meter than the winner, that is just a fact of fighting games. At that point, the loser will have no reason to not clash the next time he gets touched.

Now, if you suck at meter management or its super close and the other just always has more meter, then you may encounter some clashless matches, but lets be honest, there are way more people like Siky in real actual competitive matches who just aren't going to risk their precious meter. THey'll let you clash, let you get the free healing, and just plan to save their meter for the next touch.

Now even if that's not the case, you still have to consider the math.

You and me are fighting. Your BnB is 60% Damage. The amount of damage you've done so far is x. The amount of damage your current meter would do in winning a clash is y.
If at any point 60% damage would kill me and x + y < 60%, I have every incentive to clash. Wether you wager or not, I've stopped you from doing your 60% damage combo. And if you wagered, I've also convinced you to burn meter. Its win / win.

It's still a wager, and like any good read, you can always just get out played, but if you plan in right, you can always use clash to turn the tide, wether its simply breaking your opponents combo, scoring some free life, or the hat trick, getting them to burn meter in a wager. There would simply be no advantage to dying with a clash cocked.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
The way you describe it with the quick math and all the strategy involved, why do people dislike it?


Anyway, Clash will probably be used a lot but I don't think it's going to be every match, it's a ridiculous amount of risk for minimal gain. There will be times where it's very advantageous but I don't think it'll present itself as often as people will believe. Early on there probably will be a ton of Clashes as people don't know the game and get acclimated with the mechanics but eventually it's going to be used sparingly IMO.


There's no advantage to losing with X-factor but people wait and wait for an optimal time to use it and they just die sometimes. Things happen and if there's no true benefit to a clash then why not just die with it?
 
Personally, I think the reason they created the mechanic in the first place is that cinematic "two people charging for an epic smack-down" kind of thing.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
The way you describe it with the quick math and all the strategy involved, why do people dislike it?
Well, in the beginning, it was all kinds of fucked, and that's unfortunately the version everyone had to judge. And like the number of people who still think the game has a block button and fatalities, that prejudice is just not going to go away until they see the game on a stream.

Since the revamp, its just typical fgc xenophobia. We fear change, by nature. And there's a lot of sky is falling types who think any concept that tries to be more inventive than ST is inherently broken. Dinosaurs try to shield themselves from change, but its rarely (and I mean rarely) some goofy new system that actually breaks a game.

Anyway, Clash will probably be used a lot but I don't think it's going to be every match, it's a ridiculous amount of risk for minimal gain. There will be times where it's very advantageous but I don't think it'll present itself as often as people will believe. Early on there probably will be a ton of Clashes as people don't know the game and get acclimated with the mechanics but eventually it's going to be used sparingly IMO.
That all depends on the math involved. On meter gain rates, on health / damage returns in clash, on a lot of things. The way I see it (and I could be wrong) unless the defensive penalty (meaning you clash and lose) is huge, we are going to see a lot of clashes. If you're losing, and you have meter, and your next touch is not guaranteed, why save the meter for a combo that might not happen? What about a zoner who has no interest in lengthy combos? Why wouldn't he use a hunk of meter for Clash? And get the added bonus of thumping his opponent all the way back across the screen? As I mentioned, the combo is broken whether you wager or not. The question then comes to the aggressor, can he make it worth his while by burning meter;

IE: His BnB already uses two bars to reach 60% damage, if the enemy clashes it might be worth it for him to wager two bars if the defender has less meter, because he would have spent it anyway, and now he's robbed the defender of his combo breaker and his health recovery, just because he thought he could get away with it.

Or should he skip his wager, and hoard the meter, waiting for the next touch. If you go that route, you lose nothing, but you basically give the opponent back life for meter (almost always a worthwhile trade). I am of the opininon that dying with meter, with xfactor, with whatever, is the worst thing you can do. That's why they call them come back mechanics. XFC is obvious example, because a lv3 xfactor character can kill an entire team in seconds, and most characters can kill with a single meterless combo in xfc, level three. But even in SF4, a bar of meter is one more FADC to make that reversal uppercut safe, or turn that hit confirm into an ultra combo. In Injustice, scoring a "free" clash from a stingy opponent could be that extra slice of chip that saves you down the line, or it could be nothing. The numbers could be totally fucked.

I just find it strategically fascinating because meter is SO MUCH in this game. Now its a potential healing mechanism too. That has huge psychological implications.

There's no advantage to losing with X-factor but people wait and wait for an optimal time to use it and they just die sometimes. Things happen and if there's no true benefit to a clash then why not just die with it?
I agree, and believe me. People WILL die with their Clash waiting, but I think its only going to take a tourney or two for people to decide they don't want to.