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Important, yet sad article dealing with SFxT "Cross Assault" Incident

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
How does Mortal Kombat have sexual harassment? Sexual objectification of virtual women I will agree with. That is more of an issue of society rather than gaming. It is just societies norm of women are perceived more sexually. It doesn't help that the demographic of fighting games is young male adults who happen to like attracted virtual/real women. But that is a whole different topic and has nothing to do with sexual harassment.
It is a different issue but certainly related. I am not ragging on you. Just because it is normative for our society to oppress women, doesn't mean our video games should. There is nothing in the MK game that would condone what Aris said/did, and if anything, the game supports his behavior.

It is up to us to be critical of what we play and how we act. It is okay to realize sex sells, kids like violence, etc..,...but just becasue something is normative does not make it okay to dismiss...."boys will be boys" attitude.

Sexual harassment stems from these oppressive ideals. Mortal kombat, as in many other fighting games, perpetuates these oppressive ideals, thus potentially nurturing a environment where sexual harassment can exist, and even be seen as 'required'. You are right in saying these issues are a whole different topic, but because I think it is related, I thought it would be beneficial to talk openly about sexual harassment, oppression of women in society, and the roles games like MK play in the grander narrative.
 

gdf

Warrior
Aris does not speak for me, I do not accept that kind of trash talk. I will rag on my friends who I have gotten to know on a personal level, not someone who I met recently.
Based on Yan's response, it is clear they hadn't met in such a manner before.
Honestly....fighting games are very problematic...EVEN MORTAL KOMBAT IS ATROCIOUS...look at how he women are portrayed: big busted sexual objects. They are objects. OBJECTS. If that is not fucked up enough...
The first time I played in the shao kahn level I could not believe what I was seeing, "are those women chained up, being tortured". Yes shao kahn is the ultimate chaunvist patriarchal figure..but as far as level design...that was pushing the line. FG have been, and currently are very very problematic when concerning women.

FGs are not about objectifying women, not even really about to people fighting. In reality FGs are about memorizing button commands and overloading the other player....get the rest of this unnecessary crap out of here.
With all due respect, how are the female characters supposed to look like? Ashrah, MK1 or MK3 Sonya?
I was never a fan of the female character designs in fighting games, but it's not my right to force people not to have the right to make them. They are revealing, because Mortal Kombat is known for being over the top.

In extention of Mortal Kombat being over the top, Shao Kahn arena + Shao Kahn are supposed to embody a tyrannical and evil ruler. What drives that home more than what NRS put in there? Again, in this scenario I am not a fan of seeing women treated as objects, it is just apart of what makes the story what it is.

How would you change the characters, character designs, and story to maintain the over the top feel of Mortal Kombat, yet being respectful at the same time? (This question is not rhetorical, and please give specific examples)
 

RagingNight

Kombatant
If you were in her situation, would you have said that to Aris? It's pretty easy to say she should've acted like this and stood up to herself, but I'm sure 90% of girls in her situation would've acted the same. Girls want to fit in with the guys so they don't want to come out like bitches or drama queens I guess. So they don't say anything and take it. They want to show they have tough skin. Playing along doesn't mean it doesn't bother you, it just means you want to play along and not make a scene or cause trouble. Aris is a pretty imposing guy and he's an important and respected player/commentator in the FGC so I can see why she preferred to keep her mouth shut instead of accusing Aris of sexual harassment. Which is a pretty severe accusation.

And I highly doubt that would've shut Aris up lol. He would've made a big joke out of it like "See this is why I'm not married. These girls keep having their period and it fucking frightens me."
Well to be fair Sherry said that if you told him to STFU he would and she actually was both a contestant on the show and knows him IRL. So Iono...
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
@CptXecution Grow up. He's allowed to like the series. I like the series up until SF4 myself. I'm presuming that you're trying to lump him into the "ALL THE CAPCOM PLAYERS ARE MEAN AND DON'T LIKE US!" category. Yes, SRK and stream monsters enjoy doing that. Guess what? I avoid SRK and stream monsters. Hell, I know plenty of Capcom players who avoid SRK and stream monsters because they too feel that SRK has became a mecca for melodramatic man children and douchebaggery.

Point being, without SF there wouldn't have ever been MK, so just shush.

tl;dr
 

GhosT

Kombatant
How does Mortal Kombat have sexual harassment? Sexual objectification of virtual women I will agree with. That is more of an issue of society rather than gaming. It is just societies norm of women are perceived more sexually. It doesn't help that the demographic of fighting games is young male adults who happen to like attracted virtual/real women. But that is a whole different topic and has nothing to do with sexual harassment.

Mortal kombat as far as a community has NO sexual harassment. You can argue the portrayal of big booty characters like mileena sonya jade etc etc are bad, but yet we don't act out against women as far as i have seen. What angers me about this shit is not that aris probably regrets it all and probably isn't a horrible person. What angers me is the people who see this as no big deal or a non issue, because you are worse than the perpetrator himself. Why?

1. if girls are getting into competitive gaming thats a sign that all of our scenes as a whole are on the rise. why try and discourage women or ANYOne supporting a FG scene?

2. IF you think this is no biggie then think of this. What if you were at a tournament and someone was talking shit all day to you over and over, started off as jabbing but ended up being another guy trying to get a laugh off of you? At some point you either run away or nut up like a man. Girls can't nut up like a man!(lololol pun) but seriously they can't, its not their job to check a dude who is shit talking, if they have done nothing wrong, its OUR job to defend them, matter of fact, its our job to defend anyone who isn't in the wrong while being taken advantage of, bullied, made fun of, cheated, or disrespected. If you don't share some sort of a similar view then you need to really think long and hard about your morals. One of two things will happen. either you will fold like this girl did, or you are gonna scrap. Thats part of what men do, and a big reason why shit even remotely similar doesn't happen man to man. Why do we feel the need to respect each other as men, yet not respect or dignify a woman as a woman? TO me it shows either 1. you don't have balls to say to shit talk and troll another man face to face like you would a woman, or 2. you honestly don't have a lick of respect for the opposite sex. I don't see either option as being right or respectable.

I think nearly all of us are in agreement. IT WAS wrong, it was not respectable. and to be honest this makes me PROUD to have found myself part of a group of gentlemen who share the same thoughts. To know other than a similar interest in a particular game and passion we share, that nearly all of us can be thought of as morally sound says a lot about this community. we come from different places, we have different beliefs. But when it comes down to what is really wrong and right to know that i found a group of people who share the same views, and love the same thing, really does make me proud. Stay classy MK stay classy TYM. No matter what others think of us, we are one and at the core we are all good people. Im done with this thread, all it can do to me now is further anger and frustrate me. i hope, we all remember this and learn from it, throw the gender issue out and its still important, respect, not as a gamer, or skill related, is not earned, it is owed, until that person proves otherwise, you should always have respect for someone you don't know.

Hopefully this fiasco doesn't stay with her for too long, we can't afford to lose even one person who is a FG supporter. SF Tekken Marvel, MK. doenst matter, in the end we are all one, one genre one group, we need each other and the sooner we grow up and realize it, treat each other with respect, and respect each other for our choices in gaming, the sooner we can tackle bigger moral issues like sexism, racism, etc. Stay classy TYM. Im ouuuut
 

GhosT

Kombatant
how does this have anything to do with me? I clearly said he was in the wrong. Why do people keep saying I support his actions?
it doenst, I actually hit quote not reply on the first post i saw, not directed at anyone as an individual, thats more of just a message to everyone. Nothing personal, my bad if you thought it was.
 

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
Aris does not speak for me, I do not accept that kind of trash talk. I will rag on my friends who I have gotten to know on a personal level, not someone who I met recently.
Based on Yan's response, it is clear they hadn't met in such a manner before.

With all due respect, how are the female characters supposed to look like? Ashrah, MK1 or MK3 Sonya?
I was never a fan of the female character designs in fighting games, but it's not my right to force people not to have the right to make them. They are revealing, because Mortal Kombat is known for being over the top.

In extention of Mortal Kombat being over the top, Shao Kahn arena + Shao Kahn are supposed to embody a tyrannical and evil ruler. What drives that home more than what NRS put in there? Again, in this scenario I am not a fan of seeing women treated as objects, it is just apart of what makes the story what it is.

How would you change the characters, character designs, and story to maintain the over the top feel of Mortal Kombat, yet being respectful at the same time? (This question is not rhetorical, and please give specific examples)

Sure, I definitely agree with you on those points. I also want to protect the artistic design and the story development. Shao Kahn is an obvious 'bad guy' in a very shallow ended story. The portrayal of women here is just inherently problematic (especially when taken out of the context of the game). The game is merely of reflection of our cultural ideologies. There is not a lot of ways around that problem, as it is much bigger than just this game. The over the top attitude of MK makes it vulnerable to these issues regarding violence and women. Sometime I feel that the point of the game is to be as antagonizing as possible. (not as bad as duke nukem...but still could use a bit more tact) Stuff like this will always exist. I just ask that people be mindful and critical of such 'over the topness' and ask 'is it really necessary? ' This stuff appears everywhere, everyday. People like Aris just don't seem to care about what they say, or what it means .... Aris = Shao Kahn?


As for the specific changes: I think removing the alternating women tied to the posts in the shao kahn level should go....or just have randomly rotating cast members put up. (i'd rather it just be removed)
The Boobs: they are so big it is almost satirical. If it is, then I don't think it drives the point home. I think making them less 'object' like and more realistic would be ideal. (and still the same game). I think the few women characters could also have a more prominent role in the story...but then again this game really isn't about the story mode. Humor is fine and often a good thing. I just do not like it when these types of games continue to foster environments where violence towards women can be looked at as a joke, or not seriously (Aris mistake). The game should simply be more critical of itself, as should those who play it. It is a fun as hell games, but the reason it is fun (for me) has very little to do with the characters aesthetics.
 
Reactions: gdf

Goldi

Warrior
I keep trying to stay out of here, but it's very difficult. I promised myself I'd just stay quiet and hope things die down, but I can't. And I just can't feel quite right if I don't try to stand up for myself and fellow female gamers. I was at WB, and while 98% of the gamers there were perfect gentlemen, I did have to deal with some mess. Mostly on stream, forums my PSN inbox - but here, too. Men can be remarkably intimidating. So any "she should have" or "I would have" is easy to say until you've been in that spot. It's a coping mechanism to divert blame rather than admit how cruel and disturbing things really are for us sometimes. I get that. But I'm going to share a little, minus any names.

I wanted to see the hype, be part of the community and, hey, it was on my way to NYC to visit my BFF - who was there with me dealing with the same non sense I had to put up with. Contrary to popular belief, there is no shortage of penis in Indiana. I wasn't there hoping to have sex on anyone. And again, during the event, mostly everyone was very sweet. I've claimed to be married, gay, ancient and male to get people to back up off of me with varying success. Hope springs eternal, right? And for the most part, online, I've learned to just go, "Oh, fuck you too, Internet! Lolz" and move on. By all means, poke at my gameplay (I froze like a deer in headlights) and my pink hitbox and dismal Jade. I expect that. That doesn't phase me. But the misogynism is unacceptable.

When I got back and saw the rumors going on about me I was next panic. I was ready to snap my MK disc and go play Animal Crossing or something. Why put myself out there to be gawked at like a freak show? What sane woman would force herself to endure the kind of abuse I've been taking? Especially from people I've never been anything short of civil if not downright kind to.

The people that have gotten me through this know who they are. And I am genuinely gratefull for the support. Again, I'm not naming names because they don't deserve to be put on blast for associating with me.

What kept me from vanishing comes down to those people, and the 24 hour charity stream. Really, I fell in love with this community from that. Because of that, I'll still be at Power Up. You'll still run into me online. I won't allow sexual harrassment, lies and drama to keep me from doing something I enjoy. And deprive me of the kind, funny, talented and downright amazing people this scene introduces me to. Maybe I'm a dumb bunny for it, but there are things and people out there that are worth enduring the mess for.

A player wise beyound his years told me something that I remind myself of whenever this feels like it's just too much. "Respect is earned, not given". And while I think it's sad a woman has to work harder for that, this community, the friends I've made and the fun I've had make it worth fighting for. No pun intended : )

Please forgive the novel.
 

NKZero

Warrior
I keep trying to stay out of here, but it's very difficult. I promised myself I'd just stay quiet and hope things die down, but I can't. And I just can't feel quite right if I don't try to stand up for myself and fellow female gamers. I was at WB, and while 98% of the gamers there were perfect gentlemen, I did have to deal with some mess. Mostly on stream, forums my PSN inbox - but here, too. Men can be remarkably intimidating. So any "she should have" or "I would have" is easy to say until you've been in that spot. It's a coping mechanism to divert blame rather than admit how cruel and disturbing things really are for us sometimes. I get that. But I'm going to share a little, minus any names.

I wanted to see the hype, be part of the community and, hey, it was on my way to NYC to visit my BFF - who was there with me dealing with the same non sense I had to put up with. Contrary to popular belief, there is no shortage of penis in Indiana. I wasn't there hoping to have sex on anyone. And again, during the event, mostly everyone was very sweet. I've claimed to be married, gay, ancient and male to get people to back up off of me with varying success. Hope springs eternal, right? And for the most part, online, I've learned to just go, "Oh, fuck you too, Internet! Lolz" and move on. By all means, poke at my gameplay (I froze like a deer in headlights) and my pink hitbox and dismal Jade. I expect that. That doesn't phase me. But the misogynism is unacceptable.

When I got back and saw the rumors going on about me I was next panic. I was ready to snap my MK disc and go play Animal Crossing or something. Why put myself out there to be gawked at like a freak show? What sane woman would force herself to endure the kind of abuse I've been taking? Especially from people I've never been anything short of civil if not downright kind to.

The people that have gotten me through this know who they are. And I am genuinely gratefull for the support. Again, I'm not naming names because they don't deserve to be put on blast for associating with me.

What kept me from vanishing comes down to those people, and the 24 hour charity stream. Really, I fell in love with this community from that. Because of that, I'll still be at Power Up. You'll still run into me online. I won't allow sexual harrassment, lies and drama to keep me from doing something I enjoy. And deprive me of the kind, funny, talented and downright amazing people this scene introduces me to. Maybe I'm a dumb bunny for it, but there are things and people out there that are worth enduring the mess for.

A player wise beyound his years told me something that I remind myself of whenever this feels like it's just too much. "Respect is earned, not given". And while I think it's sad a woman has to work harder for that, this community, the friends I've made and the fun I've had make it worth fighting for. No pun intended : )

Please forgive the novel.
That was........beautiful *tears*

I never knew they allowed you to use computers while in the kitchen ;)

Haha but seriously it's kinda shitty seeing grown ass men act like fucking dogs. It's like they've never seen a girl before lol...anyways well done for holding your own
 

Espio

Kokomo
Please forgive the novel.
Great post and I will never understand why people can be so pathetic and creepy...everyone's there to play MK, it's not dating service. This community is diverse and I love watching streams and seeing our diversity(FGC's in general are), it's nice to see blacks, whites, asians, gays, women, and other groups playing this game together, I would hate to see a demographic of the community dread coming to tournaments all because of being treated in a very inappropriate way.

The more women get into the FGS, the less this stigma will exist, but the more people speak out against it, the less these things will happen.


I remember playing online with a buddy and the two of us were using Sonya, Jade, Kitana, and Sheeva and some guy sent my friend pics....and wanted to talk to him because he thought my friend was a girl , most of the community offline is great, but there's still too many people like that.

P.S. I was rooting for you because it was so awesome to see a fellow Jade player at a tournament and that hitbox you have is one of the tightest ones I think I've seen, it's so upbeat lol.
 

GhosT

Kombatant
If you were in her situation, would you have said that to Aris? It's pretty easy to say she should've acted like this and stood up to herself, but I'm sure 90% of girls in her situation would've acted the same. Girls want to fit in with the guys so they don't want to come out like bitches or drama queens I guess. So they don't say anything and take it. They want to show they have tough skin. Playing along doesn't mean it doesn't bother you, it just means you want to play along and not make a scene or cause trouble. Aris is a pretty imposing guy and he's an important and respected player/commentator in the FGC so I can see why she preferred to keep her mouth shut instead of accusing Aris of sexual harassment. Which is a pretty severe accusation.

And I highly doubt that would've shut Aris up lol. He would've made a big joke out of it like "See this is why I'm not married. These girls keep having their period and it fucking frightens me."
If i was in her shoes. Yeah i damn sure would of said it, Not immediately, I can handle some joking and trolling and shit talk just like most of us can, I can dish it back pretty well too. But if i felt like it had escalated, which she did, I damn sure would of stood up for myself without a doubt.

I see your point, but think about it, how does letting someone talk down on you or about you over and over warrant respect? I see that as the opposite, Anyone who can stand up for themselves i respect, i don't think anyone would of thought less of her if she did just that, I mean we all watch streams we all know aris personality and i don't think anyone would of seen her as being a bitch, just saying.

Funny part is that girls can out troll most guys EASILY with minimal effort. WHy ? cuz they got wat we want. Even a rookie female troll could hold their own with aris if they wanted to. and aris is a pretty accomplished troll. But hey i don't hate aris or super yan, i just hate how this turned out, and that it hurt her feelings that badly. And that it sheds a bad light of FGC.
 

RomeoBravoDelta

Kombatant
For the record, Aris did respond:

"I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements don’t actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.
What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didn’t like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years."
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
We are guilty of some of the same shit. There's a pretty big anti-female sentiment with some of the people on this forum. Go to the Noob's Passage board and look at ANY of the female player threads. Seriously.

That being said I know some people just tag along for the jokes, but when a girl comes on here, she most definitely does NOT deserve to get 5 pages of criticism on the way she looks. You wouldn't do this for a dude... so stop it with the girls.
I'm pretty sure Micaelangelo got tons of shit for how pretty he was.
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Wow, I haven't even watched that...

Aris can try to defend himself all he wants he still comes out like a jerk in all this and I don't get how anyone can defend that kind of attitude. I mean it's not even remotely funny or good taste, it's sexual harassment plain and simple.

The girl was obviously uncomfortable and kept asking Aris to stop but he continued.. Worst part is everyone else just sitting there and letting him get away with it.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
And people said that the sf community was more mature? HAHAHA get serious, its bad enough that this whole thing was staged anyways but this just tops it off
 

A-Train

Noob
Embarrassing...this is the kind of crap that gives all gamers a bad name - whether it's the fighting game community or any other one.