Question If You Were to Create Universal Rules for MKX...

[kabelfritz]

Can no longer cancel into jumps from runs

opposite, make run cancelable into every kind of jump, also backwards. oh and make stance switch the run button.

but in general im pretty happy with the basic "rules".

 

[WiseM0nkey]

- no plus 50/50s
- no jailing unless you spend a bar and provided your character doesnt have a true 50/50
- no special cancellable pokes
- no disjointed hitboxes
- backdashes are equal for every character in both invincibility frames and distance covered
- neutral crouch / crouch block are the lowest possible hitboxes
- consistent AAs

 

[Tony at Home]

Dude..... that means throws will not beat blocks after all defeating the purpose of a throw. This would encourage endless button mashing. The optional select would be real and much more rewarding than it should.

"You cant throw me boy... Im blocking. plus im mindlessly mashing my face on the controller to ensure that don't happen"

That throw tech system would be much more of a mess than it already is.

It's already the case that if you press the wrong button to tech, the throw works.

I do get your point that this now makes it optimal to constantly be tapping at least one throw tech button while blocking which is annoying.

However this is already the case with being juggled. You might as well always be pressing either 1 or 2 intermittently while being juggled so if they throw you will tech.

So yeah, it's annoying, but kinda already the status quo.

 

[GAV]

I understand as a good distance yes it's very easy to punish but I meant it as when she's crossing you up or does a deep jump in lol i think I would have to demonstrate

Try it out. I do it so it can't be that hard.

 

[GAV]

- no plus 50/50s
- no jailing unless you spend a bar and provided your character doesnt have a true 50/50
- no special cancellable pokes
- no disjointed hitboxes
- backdashes are equal for every character in both invincibility frames and distance covered
- neutral crouch / crouch block are the lowest possible hitboxes
- consistent AAs

I'm on board with everything but the bolded parts.

More diversity means more depth and more tools to be used by the developers for balance.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I'm on board with everything but the bolded parts.

More diversity means more depth and more tools to be used by the developers for balance.

I kinda agree, but the problem woth low profiling is not about mids not working correctly, but more about moves that lower your character hitbox even more than the crouch hitbox.

Make crouch the lowest possible hitbox, problem solved.

Just dont tell me low profiling adds anything to the game except total annoyance and actually promoting mashing buttons at minus frames. Its an issue.

 

[GAV]

I kinda agree, but the problem woth low profiling is not about mids not working correctly, but more about moves that lower your character hitbox even more than the crouch hitbox.

Make crouch the lowest possible hitbox, problem solved.

Just dont tell me low profiling adds anything to the game except total annoyance and actually promoting mashing buttons at minus frames. Its an issue.

It does because its adds a further knowledge aspect to the game. Kotal shouldn't be able to get as low as Mileena. Character differences are a good thing. Universal moves aren't something we should want. They're a short-cut.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

It does because its adds a further knowledge aspect to the game. Kotal shouldn't be able to get as low as Mileena. Character differences are a good thing. Universal moves aren't something we should want. They're a short-cut.

how would you address it, then?

also if you're cool about kotal not getting as low as mileena, you should also be cool about disjointed hitboxes cause of pretty much the same reason, yet, you agree they're stupid.

Sometimes it's not just about knowledge, sometimes the only mid you have can be fuckin low profiled by a 6f/7f poke, so what's to know about other than "shit, I need a character with a true mid".

EDIT: about the backdashes, yeah i agree, maybe not the same for everybody, but at least the gap between the worst and the best must be smaller.

 

[GAV]

how would you address it, then?

also if you're cool about kotal not getting as low as mileena, you should also be cool about disjointed hitboxes cause of pretty much the same reason, yet, you agree they're stupid.

Sometimes it's not just about knowledge, sometimes the only mid you have can be fuckin low profiled by a 6f/7f poke, so what's to know about other than "shit, I need a character with a true mid".

EDIT: about the backdashes, yeah i agree, maybe not the same for everybody, but at least the gap between the worst and the best must be smaller.

That stuff falls to the design team to make it right, but handicapping their options by limiting aspects of the game through universalization isn't the way to make things better. Once a design team starts thinking that way, their games begin to progress less and begin to feel stale going forward.

I would address these issues by pointing them out and giving the design team the time and resources to properly address them.

 

[Shirai Ryu Dog]

Bitchass divekicks dont autocorrect anymore, especially Kung Jins

 

[GAV]

Bitchass divekicks dont autocorrect anymore, especially Kung Jins

Wiping Kung Jin from the game completely and replacing him with Skarlet would be one very good way to solve this problem.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

That stuff falls to the design team to make it right, but handicapping their options by limiting aspects of the game through universalization isn't the way to make things better. Once a design team starts thinking that way, their games begin to progress less and begin to feel stale going forward.

I would address these issues by pointing them out and giving the design team the time and resources to properly address them.

i get it, but I'm not saying "bro, just make every character the same", I'm saying that the problem of hitboxes/hurtboxes and low profiling is buried into the engine and the system, it's not something you would adress unless you make a completely new system like, for instance, Priority moves instead of hitbox/hurtbox, or crouch is the lowest hitbox in the game.

 

[GAV]

i get it, but I'm not saying "bro, just make every character the same", I'm saying that the problem of hitboxes/hurtboxes and low profiling is buried into the engine and the system, it's not something you would adress unless you make a completely new system like, for instance, Priority moves instead of hitbox/hurtbox, or crouch is the lowest hitbox in the game.

I'm sure its a tedious process creating hitboxes for every frame, but if they do it right - it makes the game deeper and more realistic.

Angles and elusive movements are a big part of fighting. Your opponent generally isn't going to stand right in front of you.

2-D fighters add a third dimension through height. Jumping and low profiling are a big part of the MKX meta. To ignore these aspects is to play a pretend game that doesn't really exist.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Uppercuts have upperbody invulnerability so that jump ins aren't as much of a problem and one has to actually think before jumping

 

[RM NoBrows]

All jump in animations are the same so no 1 character has stupid jump in animations (I'm look at you, alien)

All njp are the same startup, frame wise.

Every character that has a 50/50, make one of the options a launcher that is non cancellable and full combo punishable on block

Characters that halve run cancel specials, make all cancels no higher than +5 on block

Block breakers cost 1 bar of meter

 

[RM AtK!]

Or you could just make buttons cancel block animation so if you hit a button while holding block the button comes out

 

[Down 2]

d2s break armor


who's with me.

I don't think anyone agrees with this more than me.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I'm sure its a tedious process creating hitboxes for every frame, but if they do it right - it makes the game deeper and more realistic.

Angles and elusive movements are a big part of fighting. Your opponent generally isn't going to stand right in front of you.

2-D fighters add a third dimension through height. Jumping and low profiling are a big part of the MKX meta. To ignore these aspects is to play a pretend game that doesn't really exist.

oh well, i wouldnt mind jumping and low profiling that much if 1) there were viable options for every character to deal with them 2) they werent such a prominent aspect of the meta (although the meta is not entirely determinent by them).

dat Xiaoyu stance doe

 

[GAV]

oh well, i wouldnt mind jumping and low profiling that much if 1) there were viable options for every character to deal with them 2) they werent such a prominent aspect of the meta (although the meta is not entirely determinent by them).

dat Xiaoyu stance doe

Get the ear of one of the developers to point out where there are no viable options within matchups, but don't advocate handicapping them with universalization. That line of thinking in development will eventually kill a series by making the game feel stale or aged a little more with each rendition.

 

[SylverRye]

Some of these changes lol. "Remove all blockstun from the game". It would be incredibly hard to punish moves with absolutely zero blockstun. Massive blockstun should be reduced though. Everything else is just a repeat of what others have said so ill just shut up. Some good changes here as well.

 

[Braindead]

Some of these changes lol. "Remove all blockstun from the game". It would be incredibly hard to punish moves with absolutely zero blockstun. Massive blockstun should be reduced though. Everything else is just a repeat of what others have said so ill just shut up. Some good changes here as well.

Fuck it let's have negative block stun.

You have to press the punish buttons while the move is actually hitting you or you'll be too late.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Get the ear of one of the developers to point out where there are no viable options within matchups, but don't advocate handicapping them with universalization. That line of thinking in development will eventually kill a series by making the game feel stale or aged a little more with each rendition.

but that's the problem... if i pick like, for instance, Mileena ball roll, everyone agrees that is the best meterless reversal in the game, it's fast, low profiles every mid (except highs ) and it's a godlike AA even for jump kicks. Now you would say "well, lets nerf ball roll and / or adjust its hitbox so it doesnt low profile everything", but no, you cant adjust it cause ball roll it's a lower hitbox than crouch block, you'd have to change the whole animation for it to not low profile. You cant just change one specific move without changing the whole hitbox/hurtbox system.

mids are supposed to hit neutral crouch opponents, but since there are lower hitboxes than crouch block, you see mids getting rekt everywhere. and let's be serious, if you dont have at least an 11f mid, ppl are free to mash like maniacs in this game, and you cannot stop them.

we'd have a far better game if mids in this game would actually stop ppl from shit playing without consequences.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Some of these changes lol. "Remove all blockstun from the game". It would be incredibly hard to punish moves with absolutely zero blockstun. Massive blockstun should be reduced though. Everything else is just a repeat of what others have said so ill just shut up. Some good changes here as well.

fuckin this^^.

ppl see Kotal's sword being unpunished and they whine for the massive blockstun, and i agree about them cause they've a reeeeaaly massive blockstun.

but how many times you see Reptilian Dash go unpunished (-18) cause of complete lack of blockstun?

 

[GAV]

but that's the problem... if i pick like, for instance, Mileena ball roll, everyone agrees that is the best meterless reversal in the game, it's fast, low profiles every mid (except highs ) and it's a godlike AA even for jump kicks. Now you would say "well, lets nerf ball roll and / or adjust its hitbox so it doesnt low profile everything", but no, you cant adjust it cause ball roll it's a lower hitbox than crouch block, you'd have to change the whole animation for it to not low profile. You cant just change one specific move without changing the whole hitbox/hurtbox system.

mids are supposed to hit neutral crouch opponents, but since there are lower hitboxes than crouch block, you see mids getting rekt everywhere. and let's be serious, if you dont have at least an 11f mid, ppl are free to mash like maniacs in this game, and you cannot stop them.

we'd have a far better game if mids in this game would actually stop ppl from shit playing without consequences.

You're talking about universal mids - adding a shortcut to simplify things.

Don't handicap the creative tools of the developers for functionality's sake. Have faith that they will make it work.

How we feel about games today is the direct result of an ideas built into more ideas until collaborative efforts and hard work polished these ideas into the games we play today. The games we play tomorrow will be built on the backs of its predecessors through more ideas, collaboration, and hard work. Don't try to handicap the people that get us there.

 

[MadPropz101]

- No special run cancels and jailing
- Pokes can't be special cancelled
- Armored Launchers are all unsafe
- Jump in attacks have much less priority then ground attacks
- Low and OH starter strings aren't mixup strings, first attacks is a 50/50 and the rest either mid or high
- Can't jump forward from running
- Mid's can't be low profiled