General/Other - Unbreakable If You Haven't Already Forgotten about Unbreakable...

[RM_NINfan101]

Honestly I really think the variation system in this game is not implemented well at all and I would not like to see it come back in future games.

A good chunk of characters really only have one variation that just outshines the others, there's no reason to play them. I.E: Bojutsu Kung Jin, GM Sub-Zero, Summoner Quan Chi (though Sorceror seems to be getting more usage) Goro in Kuatan, War God Kotal, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Nimble Reptile, Lackey F/T and that's all I can think of right now. Raiden obviously has Thunder God and it's really all he needs.

Those that actually have two useful variants are higher up on the tier list currently than those I mentioned with the exception of Quan, Raiden and D'Vorah. Kung Lao? Two useful variants. EB? Two useful variants. Shinnok? Two useful variants. Cassie? Two useful variants. Sonya? Two useful variants. You see a trend here?

Now there are some characters that are kinda in that gray area like Ermac (MoS is better than Mystic but Mystic still gets played.) and Kitana (Royal Storm and Mournful seem to be neck and neck at times, though it is very clear Royal Storm is more preferred.) but I would just rather have characters be themselves with a set movelist.

Another point I don't like about the variation system, is how characters in this game really aren't all that diverse. For every experimental variation (Dualist Liu, Blood/Sun God Kotal, Gunslinger EB, Hat Trick Lao, Ethereal Mileena, Spectral Ermac) are not as good as the variants with a straightforward game plan. Does the character have some sort of cancel? How do I incorporate that into my neutral and setup game? Is this character really setup heavy? Is this character really rushdown or setplay heavy? How good are their footsies and AA abilities? There's little variety.

Lastly, I feel like with DLC such as Tremor, they make character variants like Unbreakable Sub obsolete with Crystalline. So many characters in this game have similar stuff, I swear sometimes I'm picking a character either based on looks or how their normals are and if they compete well with the rest of the roster.

It's just my opinion, but this is exactly what I feared with the variation system. NRS needed to make them more dynamic and since so many share similar traits, they really start to all feel the same one way or another.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Honestly I really think the variation system in this game is not implemented well at all and I would not like to see it come back in future games.

A good chunk of characters really only have one variation that just outshines the others, there's no reason to play them. I.E: Bojutsu Kung Jin, GM Sub-Zero, Summoner Quan Chi (though Sorceror seems to be getting more usage) Goro in Kuatan, War God Kotal, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Nimble Reptile, Lackey F/T and that's all I can think of right now. Raiden obviously has Thunder God and it's really all he needs.

Those that actually have two useful variants are higher up on the tier list currently than those I mentioned with the exception of Quan, Raiden and D'Vorah. Kung Lao? Two useful variants. EB? Two useful variants. Shinnok? Two useful variants. Cassie? Two useful variants. Sonya? Two useful variants. You see a trend here?

Now there are some characters that are kinda in that gray area like Ermac (MoS is better than Mystic but Mystic still gets played.) and Kitana (Royal Storm and Mournful seem to be neck and neck at times, though it is very clear Royal Storm is more preferred.) but I would just rather have characters be themselves with a set movelist.

Another point I don't like about the variation system, is how characters in this game really aren't all that diverse. For every experimental variation (Dualist Liu, Blood/Sun God Kotal, Gunslinger EB, Hat Trick Lao, Ethereal Mileena, Spectral Ermac) are not as good as the variants with a straightforward game plan. Does the character have some sort of cancel? How do I incorporate that into my neutral and setup game? Is this character really setup heavy? Is this character really rushdown or setplay heavy? How good are their footsies and AA abilities? There's little variety.

Lastly, I feel like with DLC such as Tremor, they make character variants like Unbreakable Sub obsolete with Crystalline. So many characters in this game have similar stuff, I swear sometimes I'm picking a character either based on looks or how their normals are and if they compete well with the rest of the roster.

It's just my opinion, but this is exactly what I feared with the variation system. NRS needed to make them more dynamic and since so many share similar traits, they really start to all feel the same one way or another.

this 1000000000%

 

[Ryncage]

snip

i agree that the varients are so poorly done and balanced that half of them are invalid and have no reason to be used outside of casual play. But the variation system needs to stay.

its common knowledge at this point that NRS cant balance anything, or doesnt care to fix or balance characters all together. at least with this variation system, NRS had 3 chances to make a character useful in some way. If they did away with the variation system, instead of getting 2 crap variations and one that preforms decently, you would get stuck with either the character is good or the character is bad. [I.E, what if unbreakable was the only sub they made]
Id rather NRS have 3 chances to by some sick stroke of luck, make a decent character than it just be a coinflip. after all, somtimes they manage to even make 2 versions of the same character good.
While GM has a broken kit, at least he is still decent enough to remain enjoyable online. I feel bad for goro players.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

lol, but it sticks out like a sore thumb. His costume should be all glowy and shit to match.

Pick revenant > alt skin. White Power Ranger up in this

Honestly I really think the variation system in this game is not implemented well at all and I would not like to see it come back in future games.

A good chunk of characters really only have one variation that just outshines the others, there's no reason to play them. I.E: Bojutsu Kung Jin, GM Sub-Zero, Summoner Quan Chi (though Sorceror seems to be getting more usage) Goro in Kuatan, War God Kotal, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Nimble Reptile, Lackey F/T and that's all I can think of right now. Raiden obviously has Thunder God and it's really all he needs.

Those that actually have two useful variants are higher up on the tier list currently than those I mentioned with the exception of Quan, Raiden and D'Vorah. Kung Lao? Two useful variants. EB? Two useful variants. Shinnok? Two useful variants. Cassie? Two useful variants. Sonya? Two useful variants. You see a trend here?

Now there are some characters that are kinda in that gray area like Ermac (MoS is better than Mystic but Mystic still gets played.) and Kitana (Royal Storm and Mournful seem to be neck and neck at times, though it is very clear Royal Storm is more preferred.) but I would just rather have characters be themselves with a set movelist.

Another point I don't like about the variation system, is how characters in this game really aren't all that diverse. For every experimental variation (Dualist Liu, Blood/Sun God Kotal, Gunslinger EB, Hat Trick Lao, Ethereal Mileena, Spectral Ermac) are not as good as the variants with a straightforward game plan. Does the character have some sort of cancel? How do I incorporate that into my neutral and setup game? Is this character really setup heavy? Is this character really rushdown or setplay heavy? How good are their footsies and AA abilities? There's little variety.

Lastly, I feel like with DLC such as Tremor, they make character variants like Unbreakable Sub obsolete with Crystalline. So many characters in this game have similar stuff, I swear sometimes I'm picking a character either based on looks or how their normals are and if they compete well with the rest of the roster.

It's just my opinion, but this is exactly what I feared with the variation system. NRS needed to make them more dynamic and since so many share similar traits, they really start to all feel the same one way or another.

I think you are right about some (Dualist, Spectral, Gunslinger) but for the majority I think the variation system is working just fine and some just need tweaks. For example you listed nimble as though all other variations are completely unviable, but Noxious made it to top 8 in Evo bro. Many of these different characters are play style choices and aren't just flat Sub-par, there is often a damage payoff fora different tool, Ethereal, Hat Trick, Broodmother, etc are all good examples of this. They might need a few tweaks but it's not even implausible to imagine them beating their "main" variation

 

[Samsara]

So I think most people who had something to say have said it, but allow me to to fly off the handle and vent quickly here:

Hunter Predator: traps (GM), braindead damage (Cryo), reduced chip (unbreakable)+cloaking

Crystalline Tremor: reduced chip, reduced damage, a free hit of armor that can be used to 'parry', ignore wakeups, ignore reversals, and converts into massive wall-carry combos---we're talking a practical +30%+13% every time it connects in some cases.

There's no reason to pick Unbreakable Sub with these characters in the roster, in addition, UNB probably hard-counters flame fists and fisticuffs johnny cage exclusively. There's no real reason to use it as a counter-pick at large against the rest of the cast.

Finally, there's even no reason to pick Unbreakable over GM, which anyone with a brain knows is the most favorable variation for Subby despite being marred with technical issues. His damage is so low opponents really have nothing to fear from him. Punishing competantly with ice parry often requires you to spend a bar of meter for 26%---which is awful value

At the end of the day Sub-Zero is a great character inherently, but Unbreakable is Subby at his weakest and is no longer relevant in MKX's meta. RIP UNBREAKBLE SUBBY.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Pick revenant > alt skin. White Power Ranger up in this


I think you are right about some (Dualist, Spectral, Gunslinger) but for the majority I think the variation system is working just fine and some just need tweaks. For example you listed nimble as though all other variations are completely unviable, but Noxious made it to top 8 in Evo bro. Many of these different characters are play style choices and aren't just flat Sub-par, there is often a damage payoff fora different tool, Ethereal, Hat Trick, Broodmother, etc are all good examples of this. They might need a few tweaks but it's not even implausible to imagine them beating their "main" variation

And I would say that you have your points and the noxious Reptile by Milky is a good example, I just see Nimble clearly being the best variant he has because of the fact it increases his combo/damage output. Ethereal Mileena is... Well, I need to see someone play her before my mind changes on that. On paper she looks good, but doesn't give you the tic setups that Ravenous does or the damage in Piercing. I still do think my other points stand though, that there's not a lot of variety aside from the characters themselves.