General/Other - Unbreakable If You Haven't Already Forgotten about Unbreakable...

[just_2swift]

I wish he had the kokari blade impale dmg over time in breakable subzero from back in the days of 3d mk.

Hell also cryo subzero at the cost of a bar to make f4 2+grab bleed out would be cool

 

[RVB]

Apart from reducing recovery on shield, some reliable anti air, like the one 2 his other variations have.
Better meter building. I'd be fine if UB Sub had the lowest dmg, but against characters who deal lots of it and have faster meter building he has no chances because they are able to break his ever so weak combos much too often. He should also be able to build up meter at least as fast as Raiden. Maybe have a bit of meter build each time he blocks attacks when aura is active. He needs this meter. Period.

No argument here UB needs more meter gain from his aura and ice shield as those are his main tools in that variation.

 

[RVB]

I wish he had the kokari blade impale dmg over time in breakable subzero from back in the days of 3d mk.

Hell also cryo subzero at the cost of a bar to make f4 2+grab bleed out would be cool

Cryomancer has more problems than UB simply because the mechanics behind UB are simple and easy to apply.
Cryo right now has a ton of damage and that would make you think that it is an offensive variation but it isn't because it lacks pressure.

 

[matmusada]

A bar of meter for a hit of armor and damage reduction... that would be nice.

I'd also make his damage reduction a passive just like Noxious Reptile, however, make the reduction about 0.01%. Then require a command input such as D,D1 which would then provide greater damage reduction. Then finally, when you MB Ice Aura it provides one hit of armor as well as the maximum damage reduction within reason.

 

[D4G]

Both Flame fist and Dragon's Fire Liu Kang both beat GM sub, but go even or lose to Unbreakable. Sort of the same deal with Kenshi and Cyromancer, you wouldn't pick GM for that. It's better to choose a variation that deals more offensive. I'm sure the same deal applies to other characters.

This is just what one of my buddies has told me. He used to main GM exclusively since day 1, but has since warmed up to the idea of learning what his other variations can do.

Good reply, I think Unbreakable going even with Flame Fist is a good assessment. Ice Aura negating chip really shuts out a major damage avenue for Flame Fist. However, That's only one match up and as far as I can tell the only matchup where Unbreakable's tools actually matter.

 

[RVB]

I'd also make his damage reduction a passive just like Noxious Reptile, however, make the reduction about 0.01%. Then require a command input such as D,D1 which would then provide greater damage reduction. Then finally, when you MB Ice Aura it provides one hit of armor as well as the maximum damage reduction within reason.

Ahh but all of that would mean that NRS would have to make an effort to test and balance that out and ... it will not happen.
Why do you guys think that I've never considered requesting a buff like give UB the ice burst because just like asking for the klone to stay on block it will not happen.
NRS so far have shown the willingness to alter a characters frame data but not add any moves or strings that would require more balancing than they are prepared to do.
Keep this in mind when suggesting buffs/tweaks/fixes because I can assure you if it involves something that needs work and effort to be put into place then it won't happen.

 

[Derptile]

Good reply, I think Unbreakable going even with Flame Fist is a good assessment. Ice Aura negating chip really shuts out a major damage avenue for Flame Fist. However, That's only one match up and as far as I can tell the only matchup where Unbreakable's tools actually matter.

Yeah I was thinking about who else Unbreakable could handle, but nearly all the other Rushdown characters are handled by GM.

I think NRS had wanted GM to be the obvious variation of choice with Cyromancer and Unbreakable being used for counterpicking. The problem is that Unbreakable's benefit of not taking chip only applies to a few MUs, and Cyromancer might be good in the damage department but he has no ways of maintaining pressure. So the obvious question is why would you use UB over GM or why use Cryomancer when there are characters like Erron Black? It seems to me that SZ's variations are only useful if you're a character loyalist, but when so many characters are easy to learn in this game then there's no point.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Bruh the best part about him is his mask.

lol, but it sticks out like a sore thumb. His costume should be all glowy and shit to match.

 

[Slymind]

I really hope NRS take a look at this variation, it's the one variation i was most hyped since i like the defensive style, but currently, it's simply outclassed.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Apart from reducing recovery on shield, some reliable anti air, like the one 2 his other variations have.
Better meter building. I'd be fine if UB Sub had the lowest dmg, but against characters who deal lots of it and have faster meter building he has no chances because they are able to break his ever so weak combos much too often. He should also be able to build up meter at least as fast as Raiden. Maybe have a bit of meter build each time he blocks attacks when aura is active. He needs this meter. Period.

Maybe make it so that when he hits the opponent (on hit or block otherwise the opponent might just take the combo cause of his shit damage) with Ice Aura active, he builds more meter?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Yeah I was thinking about who else Unbreakable could handle, but nearly all the other Rushdown characters are handled by GM.

I think NRS had wanted GM to be the obvious variation of choice with Cyromancer and Unbreakable being used for counterpicking. The problem is that Unbreakable's benefit of not taking chip only applies to a few MUs, and Cyromancer might be good in the damage department but he has no ways of maintaining pressure. So the obvious question is why would you use UB over GM or why use Cryomancer when there are characters like Erron Black? It seems to me that SZ's variations are only useful if you're a character loyalist, but when so many characters are easy to learn in this game then there's no point.

Been saying forever that MKX Sub Zero has terrible strings. They're all seemingly made to cancel into specials since they are almost all slightly negative. And since the special cancels aren't safe... basically, you're forced to block and thus, end your offense. Hard to pressure people with that.

 

[Derptile]

Been saying forever that MKX Sub Zero has terrible strings. They're all seemingly made to cancel into specials since they are almost all slightly negative. And since the special cancels aren't safe... basically, you're forced to block and thus, end your offense. Hard to pressure people with that.

So basically make Cyromancer's strings faster or more + on block and make Unbreakable's special cancel's more safer. I think GM is fine for the most part.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

So basically make Cyromancer's strings faster or more + on block and make Unbreakable's special cancel's more safer. I think GM is fine for the most part.

I can agree with this.

I think GM is fine too, just wish clone didn't disappear on block. Too used to set it before a jump and block and lol as they fall into it from MK9. haha

 

[Savage8-8]

Unbreakable could use a slight damage buff but the main concern for me is ice shield recovery. Way too many recovery frames. Should it be punishable?
Yes. But that doesn't mean it has to be extremely negative. Im all for Cryomancer having better pressure. I believe his normal ice hammer should have a much faster startup. i feel that would solve his pressure problems.

 

[just_2swift]

Cryomancer has more problems than UB simply because the mechanics behind UB are simple and easy to apply.
Cryo right now has a ton of damage and that would make you think that it is an offensive variation but it isn't because it lacks pressure.

What if they added dash cancels to his sword strings like A list Johnny?

 

[Derptile]

Cyromancer should be more plus and have more range on his variation-specific normals, SZ is a tankish character it would be more in line with his design. Leave the RC cancel stuff for characters that are supposed to be fast like Roo Kang and Cage.

 

[matmusada]

Ahh but all of that would mean that NRS would have to make an effort to test and balance that out and ... it will not happen.
Why do you guys think that I've never considered requesting a buff like give UB the ice burst because just like asking for the klone to stay on block it will not happen.
NRS so far have shown the willingness to alter a characters frame data but not add any moves or strings that would require more balancing than they are prepared to do.
Keep this in mind when suggesting buffs/tweaks/fixes because I can assure you if it involves something that needs work and effort to be put into place then it won't happen.

Yeah, you're right. Even if NRS has gone as far as to add entirely new moves and the sort at this point I feel like I'm saying "woulda shoulda coulda". If nothing else that's why I'd rather see an upgrade to the core game like what Capcom does with Street Fighter.

 

[RVB]

Cyromancer should be more plus and have more range on his variation-specific normals, SZ is a tankish character it would be more in line with his design. Leave the RC cancel stuff for characters that are supposed to be fast like Roo Kang and Cage.

Yeah there's no way cryo will ever get cancels although SZ is not a slow character as you portray him.
As for his strings being plus that is not going to happen either, making his universal strings plus is out of the question because that would be a major buff to all the variations and SZ is just too OP as it is
What remains are his variation specific strings like 111, f12, f122 and f42 grab.
f42 grab is out of the question when discussing strings that should be plus it should stay neutral or be +2 or +3, why? because making that string highly plus would be really OP. Cryo making u guess overhead/low/ every time he lands a f42 grab and if you guess wrong he gets to do it again and again without you having the option to armor wake because the string is a standing reset.
That only leaves 111, f12 and f122 pointless strings that could really use some buffing if they are going to be used for pressure.
As for Cryo's specials... Air hammer is useless right now I doubt that anyone has given any thought how this could have any advantage, his regular hammer overhead has 36 frames start up and his EX hammer has 28 LOL.
If Cryo is to get better someone from NRS needs to improve something on those moves.

 

[ZeZe]

If Cryo is to get better someone from NRS needs to improve something on those moves.

Will never happen. Ppl should drop any faith in NRS as far as SubZ is concerned. They will rather prioritize making combo string a bit easier for top 5 character then apply any fixes for SZ. Just take it as is, and wait till MK XI. Although at this point I'd rather they kicked SZ off roster.

 

[Zaccel]

Dropping my two cents on UB, since I love the variation in concept.

-Parry should obviously be punishable, but it would be a hell of a lot more practical if it automatically cancelled when a projectile hit it. Currently it's a target painted on his back.

-What's the damage scaling on Parry like? Is it identical to a normal Ice Ball? If so, it could be more effective if the scaling was less, so UB could have less embarrassing damage from a good read. UB is the low-damage Sub-Zero, but at this extreme the Parry is rarely a threat for the opponent to consider.

-Aura is good on paper, but could maybe use more ways to safely apply it on block? Ending combo with it is a big sacrifice for a variation already starved for damage. Alternatively, slightly stronger benefits from it could encourage more regular use.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Sub Zero Unbreakable could be the worst variation in the current state of the game.

Week 1-3 it was fine, right now, no way.

Im sure NRS will see that, they can't be that clueless, they know whats up.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

This is all pretty well known. And i expect 'zero changes to ever be made.
Quite 'sub par indeed.

puns arent cool anymore...

 

[scarsunseen]

Poor guy never had a chance

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Why play sub when theres hunter predator whos all 3 subs in 1? Glue showed me with his 2minute pred

 

[skater11]

Give Predator a Cyber Sub skin and you Sub players are all set.