I think Raiden is overpowered

[BehindTheLight]

1. Teleport into that 3 hit combo that finishes with an overhead into superman
2. Teleport into grab

So now, when Raiden teleports, you actually have to guess as to if which one he is going to do. If you think he is going to try to hit you with that garbage combo and block, he will just grab you. If you think he is going to grab you and you try to tech the throw, you get crushed with that combo.

Let's say you get a knockdown and you try to jump in on Raiden, he can just do superman and it beats your jump kick. If you get him in the corner and try to pressure him, he can just do wakeup superman and it beats everything.

The teleport thing though is so lame because you have to be lucky and guess right.

 

[Sutter Pain]

Learn to bait wake up attacks by dashing up and blocking when they are down and punish with full combo. If you are just jumping in every time any fighter with a good wake up attack will own you 100% of the time. Wake up attacks are invincible for a few frames that's why your jump kick loses.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

1. Teleport into that 3 hit combo that finishes with an overhead into superman
2. Teleport into grab

So now, when Raiden teleports, you actually have to guess as to if which one he is going to do. If you think he is going to try to hit you with that garbage combo and block, he will just grab you. If you think he is going to grab you and you try to tech the throw, you get crushed with that combo.

Let's say you get a knockdown and you try to jump in on Raiden, he can just do superman and it beats your jump kick. If you get him in the corner and try to pressure him, he can just do wakeup superman and it beats everything.

The teleport thing though is so lame because you have to be lucky and guess right.

If the Raidens you are playing against are simply using option a or b (teleport > combo or teleport > throw), there are a couple of things you can do to mitigate the effectiveness of choosing to either defend or tech the throw.

Probably the easiest thing you can do if you can't punish the teleport on reaction (believe it or not this is possible), is to simply bait the teleport and jump over the enemy with an attack. This nullifies the effectiveness of just aimlessly going into a combo because they now have to cut the string short and choose to defend, or you get a free dash up punish.

A teleport throw will also whiff if you are jumping, which could set you up for a punish if you're quick enough or do a cross-up punch and continue a combo as you land off of the punch.

This is when Raiden will evolve a little bit more and start teleport, jump over combo; teleport jump over throw, or jump air superman if you're becoming repetitive.

As far as pressuring him on wake-up. Keep in mind that using Superman is a huge Risk. The Raiden player is assuming that you are going to press buttons, and he is risking the mitigation of that pressure with a wake-up attack. If you can begin feigning offense on wake-up and defend and punish appropriately (ie: 30-40%), the Raiden player should begin defending on wake-up.

Depending on how close you are to the Raiden player, you can also choose to cross him up on wake up (ie: jumping over Raiden after knock down); By doing this, if he attempts to wake-up superman, the Raiden player is more likely to whiff the special move because <- to -> 4 now becomes -> to <- 4 or vice-versa depending on which side of the screen you're on.

 

[BehindTheLight]

Ok, ok....some good advice there. Thanks guys, will work on this.

 

[ONE DS]

removed

 

[DevilJin]

When in doubt blame lag. That combo that ends with the overhead can't be THAT good offline. I played a Raiden player for the first time today and he just frame trapped me the whole time with just that combo (no, pokes weren't working at all).

 

[Evil_Riu48]

raiden doesn't gets a 50/50 after his teleport because his teleport is a dissadvantage and fully punishble on reaction. however my guess is that
online is very hard to react to his teleport but that is not raiden been overpower is the delay online

 

[DevilJin]

raiden doesn't gets a 50/50 after his teleport because his teleport is a dissadvantage and fully punishble on reaction. however my guess is that
online is very hard to react to his teleport but that is not raiden been overpower is the delay online

Exactly. I bet that all Raiden players would rarely teleport offline because it leaves a huge opening. It's easy to react to because it's easy to predict when it's going to happen.

 

[Clone1]

raiden doesn't gets a 50/50 after his teleport because his teleport is a dissadvantage and fully punishble on reaction. however my guess is that
online is very hard to react to his teleport but that is not raiden been overpower is the delay online

what character do you use and what do you punish a teleport with?

 

[RWDY Nori]

Exactly. I bet that all Raiden players would rarely teleport offline because it leaves a huge opening. It's easy to react to because it's easy to predict when it's going to happen.

This is very, very wrong. Look at any tournament videos and look at how Raidens are playing. Online sucks, I agree. However, offline Raiden is still IMO the best in the game. Not overpowered, can be beaten but top tier regardless. I don't want to repeat what others have said, some good anti raiden was already posted here

 

[BehindTheLight]

raiden doesn't gets a 50/50 after his teleport because his teleport is a dissadvantage and fully punishble on reaction. however my guess is that
online is very hard to react to his teleport but that is not raiden been overpower is the delay online

Ok, punishable on reaction? With what? Can you uppercut it? Can you do your special move?

Last night I was playing a Raiden over and over and every time he teleported I tried poking out a low kick or punch and raidens combo was beating it. Hopefully it is the lag.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Ok, punishable on reaction? With what? Can you uppercut it? Can you do your special move?

Last night I was playing a Raiden over and over and every time he teleported I tried poking out a low kick or punch and raidens combo was beating it. Hopefully it is the lag.

Never ever ever ever ever (add another thousand "evers") base your ideas of punishing on online play. Best way is to have another human being test it offline

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Ok, punishable on reaction? With what? Can you uppercut it? Can you do your special move?

Last night I was playing a Raiden over and over and every time he teleported I tried poking out a low kick or punch and raidens combo was beating it. Hopefully it is the lag.

This is character example, but lets say you play Liu kang; Liu Kang can b312 x4 punish it on reaction if you're looking for it.

Try finding your combos with quick start-up that are typically your go-to punish combos.

An example of a character that is going to have a hell of a time punishing Raiden with anything would be Stryker, and he probably gets: (uppercut, standing 4 > roll, crouch 1, crouch 3) at the very least.

Just find your BnB combos and find what works for your character and practice it in training mode.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

every character in the game can punish it

 

[Raidenwins]

every character in the game can punish it

Yes, online of offline Raiden's teleport is punishable. I played an excellent Noob Saibot and Nightwolf player (m2dave to be exact) and he was able to punish my teleport quite consistently, until I caught up to his tactics, that is. You can do d1 or d3 or a Throw with any character. I also played an excellent Ermac player (CableKabal) who was able to catch me with TKS off of my teleport.

So, the teleport is punishable. However, here is the problem with punishing it. In order to be able to do anything to Raiden after he teleports you have to Not be blocking, otherwise you don't have enough time to let go off block, turn around, and start an attack. So, even before Raiden teleports you have to make a guess, to block or not to block. If you don't block you will have enough time, if you are quick enough that is, to punish him. By not blocking though you leave yourself open to an Electric/Thunder Fly which is very fast. And if you do block for fear of eating Electric/Thunder Fly then you can't punish his teleport. All that, plus considering that Raiden's teleport is the fastest in the game gives him advantage over most of the character roster.

A smart Raiden player will exploit the above scenario by baiting a teleport punish. What works for me is 1 or 2 Lightning Bolts. Most players that are expecting a teleport will react to the Bolt as if it's a teleport and whiff a d1 or throw, or whatever their punish of choice was. So then you establish yet another layer of guessing game with Raiden, 'Is he going to teleport or not? Should I block or not? After he teleports, is he going to throw or do a combo or cross jump over into a combo, or is he just going to block in anticipation of punishment?' It's just like Tom Brady said, it's a guessing game with Raiden.

 

[BehindTheLight]

Yes, online of offline Raiden's teleport is punishable. I played an excellent Noob Saibot and Nightwolf player (m2dave to be exact) and he was able to punish my teleport quite consistently, until I caught up to his tactics, that is. You can do d1 or d3 or a Throw with any character. I also played an excellent Ermac player (CableKabal) who was able to catch me with TKS off of my teleport.

So, the teleport is punishable. However, here is the problem with punishing it. In order to be able to do anything to Raiden after he teleports you have to Not be blocking, otherwise you don't have enough time to let go off block, turn around, and start an attack. So, even before Raiden teleports you have to make a guess, to block or not to block. If you don't block you will have enough time, if you are quick enough that is, to punish him. By not blocking though you leave yourself open to an Electric/Thunder Fly which is very fast. And if you do block for fear of eating Electric/Thunder Fly then you can't punish his teleport. All that, plus considering that Raiden's teleport is the fastest in the game gives him advantage over most of the character roster.

A smart Raiden player will exploit the above scenario by baiting a teleport punish. What works for me is 1 or 2 Lightning Bolts. Most players that are expecting a teleport will react to the Bolt as if it's a teleport and whiff a d1 or throw, or whatever their punish of choice was. So then you establish yet another layer of guessing game with Raiden, 'Is he going to teleport or not? Should I block or not? After he teleports, is he going to throw or do a combo or cross jump over into a combo, or is he just going to block in anticipation of punishment?' It's just like Tom Brady said, it's a guessing game with Raiden.

Wow, that actually breaks it down perfectly for me. I have noticed that sometimes I could d1 or d3 it but othertimes I couldn't. Now I know it is because I was blocking that I couldn't punish it. The superman is so fast that sometimes you see it coming and hit block but it is to late and it still connects.
Thanks.

 

[DanCock]

just an FYI dave has good Internet. when you face a raiden that has a shitty Internet connection it's real tough to counter a raiden teleport. also last night faced a laggy connection and I couldn't punish the torpedo with sindels normal big combo had to settle for 14% :/.


just use Kano with lag and do up ball over and over lol



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[M2Dave]

just use Kano with lag and do up ball over and over lol

Not just with lag!

Kano counters Raiden off-line and online. The Knife recovers so quickly that Raiden has to teleport far in advance to punish it, which leaves him open to general anti-teleport strategies. Kano has it even better, though. The Up Ball's motion is d,f+2, so it's actually the reverse motion for the Knife. This means if Kano keeps spamming the Knife Toss, there's a high chance that Raiden gets punished when he teleports. Up Ball is 7 frames fast and -8 on block as far as I know. This means that Raiden has to execute a perfect Eletric Fly to punish it, which is not easy to do in the heat of a battle.

All zoning characters lose to Raiden. Just not Kano. Raiden loses this match up 6/4 at best.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Oh no, electric fly is a pretty balanced move. And free strings via his teleport are totally balanced too! Raiden's only 'difficult' matchup is the other broken to fuck character in this game...Kano. Makes sense I guess.

 

[Raidenwins]

Oh no, electric fly is a pretty balanced move. And free strings via his teleport are totally balanced too! Raiden's only 'difficult' matchup is the other broken to fuck character in this game...Kano. Makes sense I guess.

Electric Fly is not broken. You can block and punish it easily. I know, because it happens to me all the time. And as for his advantage on his BnB strings, that is being addressed in the coming patch.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Haha yeah...the upcoming patch to redeem this piece of shit. I'm not holding my breath anymore. Even Tom Brady has lost faith.

 

[R2FI]

i still dont see where the difference is - frame advantage of b312 decreases from +1 to a disadvantage of -1
still can check with d1 (or superman if im feeling lucky), teleport cancel after any hit, poke with d1/d3 after any hit and start all over again, ...

what exactly is the difference in that 2 frames?

 

[Raidenwins]

i still dont see where the difference is - frame advantage of b312 decreases from +1 to a disadvantage of -1
still can check with d1 (or superman if im feeling lucky), teleport cancel after any hit, poke with d1/d3 after any hit and start all over again, ...

what exactly is the difference in that 2 frames?

Well, 2 frames is 2 frames (and where do you get your info that it's currently +1 on block?). Raiden's d1 is 6 frames, with +1 it means it would take 5 frames for it to connect, meaning no move in the game (other than X-Ray) can beat it. After the patch, it would be 6 + 2 = 8 frames, meaning a 7 frame move could beat out a d1.

Let's take another example, Electric Fly, which is 8 frames on execution. A lot of Raiden players like to buffer an Electric Fly on blocked b3, 1, 2 or 3, 3, 4. So, currently we have:

On block: 8 - 1 = 7 frames (that's how long it takes for Electric Fly to execute after blocked BnB string). In order to punish that you need a move that is 6 frames or faster. If you use a 7 frames move then (from what I understand in the beginning of the round the game randomly decides who will win out if two moves of the same frames hit at the same time) you just have to be lucky so we will not discuss this situation as it is entirely out of the player's control.

After the patch it would be:

On block: 8 + 1 = 9 frames. In order to punish that you need a move that is 8 frames or faster, so suddenly a few more moves would be able to punish Electric Fly (that can't right now).

Of course there are other variables in the equation such as execution skill and lag (if playing online), but we are talking about the ideal scenario here, where two expert level players are playing off-line.

 

[LordSpectreX]

Haha yeah...the upcoming patch to redeem this piece of shit. I'm not holding my breath anymore. Even Tom Brady has lost faith.

If all you're ever going to do is whine with baseless arguments, can you just go?

 

[GNG Iniquity]

If all you're ever going to do with whine with baseless arguments, can you just go?

Well, I was planning on dragging it out until the patch, likely I'll move onto something better though! So, probably won't be lingering around for much longer.