i don't need help!

[NKZero]

He has way more than 2 bad match ups. He has like 6. Raiden players are really delusional. If he only had 2 bad match ups he would be a top 5 character.

In my opinion he is a top 5 character . Who else d'you think poses a real problem for him?

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

In my opinion he is a top 5 character . Who else d'you think poses a real problem for him?

Jax, Cage, Cyber Sub Zero, Sonya, Kabal, Smoke

Those are the 6. If a smoke player attacks you, he doesn't know how to play the match up. Smoke can out turtle Raiden and it makes that matchup in Smokes Favor. So those are the 6 i've come up with from going to VSM and talking with those guys about the match ups and then playing them myself. Just because you aren't the greatest player in the world doesn't mean you can't see where the matchup might be good or bad. i think raiden does well against a lot of characters out of the top ten, but that's the problem Personally I think he's in the 12 - 15 range on the tier list.

 

[NKZero]

Jax, Cage, Cyber Sub Zero, Sonya, Kabal, Smoke

Those are the 6. If a smoke player attacks you, he doesn't know how to play the match up. Smoke can out turtle Raiden and it makes that matchup in Smokes Favor. So those are the 6 i've come up with from going to VSM and talking with those guys about the match ups and then playing them myself. Just because you aren't the greatest player in the world doesn't mean you can't see where the matchup might be good or bad. i think raiden does well against a lot of characters out of the top ten, but that's the problem Personally I think he's in the 12 - 15 range on the tier list.

What can Smoke do to Raiden? How does he out turtle him? I'd say 5-5. Raiden is maybe the only character that has a legit escape out of Cage's pressure. Cage player has to be weary and cannot throw out mindless pressure. I also say 5-5. Cyber Sub I thought was bad but Raiden doesn't need to use the parry-able strings. Or he could do 33-teleport and if he cannot blow up ice parry he at least gets to start his own pressure. He can punish the dive kick with superman easily while Cyber Sub can also dive kick Raiden's teleport (not always though). 5-5. I agreed with you about Kabal and Sonya. I dunno about Jax tbh, why do you think it's bad? Jax can't exactly zone Raiden so what can he do?

 

[G4S KT]

What can Smoke do to Raiden?

Nothing.

And that's why he wins.

 

[STRYKIE]

if you play one of this characters and you take the time to learn the hard matchups you will never need to play any other character for the so call '' bad matchups'' in a tourney


1) kabal
2) sektor - Kung Lao (there I said it, eat your hearts out SZ forum.)
3) jax
4) sonya
5) kenshi
6) kung lao
7) johnny cage
8)kitana
9) raiden
10) smoke
11) rain

1) agreed
2) Kung Lao (there I said it, eat your hearts out SZ forum.)
3) Sektor, Cage
4) agreed
5) possibly CSZ, but I'll agree for now.
6) Cage
7) Reptile
8) agreed
9) agreed
10) Liu Kang
11) don't know, he disappeared off the face of the earth post-patch..

 

[Relaxedstate]

Dude if your Raiden was as good as Curbo's Cage or CD Jr's Jax then you wouldn't need to counter-pick. That's not a slight on you that's just how it is. Since no Raiden player has the same skill as CD Jr or Curbo of course chances are they're gonna get blown up. Raiden has two bad match-ups that are still playable those being Sonya and Kabal. Other than that he really fares well vs most of the cast and beats lower tier characters pretty heavily...

How do you know how many bad matchups he has if 'no one plays him at a high level'? Doesn't make sense... stop your theory crafting and listen to claude...he plays a high level raiden

 

[NKZero]

How do you know how many bad matchups he has if 'no one plays him at a high level'? Doesn't make sense... stop your theory crafting and listen to claude...he plays a high level raiden

no.1) find me that quote in my paragraph because i sure as hell didnt say that
no.2) i said he isn't on the same level as cd jr or curbo
no.3) despite that i never said he didn't play at a high level

he brought those players into reference and then of course they will destroy any raiden at the moment. in fact they also beat other good players even if they have bad match-ups because they are just better. so what else can you do but "theory craft"? raiden really doesn't have that many bad match-ups....he has too many solid defensive tools and the nature of his playstyle can evade even the most powerful qualities of other characters.

claude disagrees, many top players disagree but some top players agree also. it's opinion. i respect claude's opinion but i disagree.

so please stop putting words in my mouth. thank you.

 

[zaf]

Not to be a bitch but how many times have you successfully performed said 53% combo against Cage?

i have done this combo enough times now. i dont literally keep track.

you can ask Jer or at LolingOctopus (your fav jade player) about me doing double jk combos and ex tks combos. i have been practising them in training and pretty much only use them casuals/tourneys/sparring. its really not that bad once you get it down. and considering ive only played ermac since day one, its not like im lost.

the 53% one, after the double jk if i do miss the d1~tkp its still 48%. almost all of combos are now over 40%. even the meterless ones.

 

[NkdSingularity]

his best footsie move is 4, not b2

Rains best footsies tool is armoured dash cancel.

I think Rain is decent, mid-tier. Do you really feel he has advantage MUs against most of the roster?

 

[RapZiLLa54]

I'd definitely throw Reptile on that list.

 

[Qwark28]

Johnny Cage rapes him. So does Sonya.

Metzos

MJpopcorn.gif

 

[Relaxedstate]

...no Raiden player has the same skill as CD Jr or Curbo...
...Raiden has two bad match-ups that are still playable those being Sonya and Kabal... Other than that he really fares well vs most of the cast and beats lower tier characters pretty heavily...

You said no one plays him at a high enough level. Yet you also said he has 2 bad match-ups that are winnable, and beats everyone else handily.
I want to know how you know he only has 2 Bad MUs, if no one plays him? I think you are just theory fighting. Sorry to presume...

 

[G4S KT]

REO 's new tier list is correct in putting Raiden in upper mid tier.

All that hype for months and months about him being top or even #1 was nonsense.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

REO 's new tier list is correct in putting Raiden in upper mid tier.

All that hype for months and months about him being top or even #1 was nonsense.

That's exactly where i have him. too. YAY lol

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

How do you know how many bad matchups he has if 'no one plays him at a high level'? Doesn't make sense... stop your theory crafting and listen to claude...he plays a high level raiden

Thank you for the support sir!

 

[NogunYesknife]

Rains best footsies tool is armoured dash cancel.

I think Rain is decent, mid-tier. Do you really feel he has advantage MUs against most of the roster?

no lol his 4 is a bit bigger than Cage's f3 hitbox, but unlike f3, its a safe launcher. It also extremely hard to whiff punish. oh yeah, and repling to your post about lightning: Rain has an extremely fast teleport. Probably second behind Raiden. you cant just willy nilly zone him out. once you start respecting the teleport, he can startup his s tier footsies.

 

[NKZero]

You said no one plays him at a high enough level. Yet you also said he has 2 bad match-ups that are winnable, and beats everyone else handily.
I want to know how you know he only has 2 Bad MUs, if no one plays him? I think you are just theory fighting. Sorry to presume...

You don't have to play at the highest level to know it. But I'm saying that I'm convinced that Raiden at the highest level i.e. on REO's, Curbo's or CD Jr's level would hold down his weight against the likes of Jax, Cage etc. I think that because he had bad experiences (understandably) against those players, it appears that Raiden struggles. I just disagreed with him. Don't get me wrong, his opinion is no less valid than mine. Opinion after all is...opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

I mean if you asked the best Raiden player in the world at the moment (I'd say BWizz), I'm sure he would share similar sentiments to what I feel.

 

[SunnyD]

I will literally disembowel you.

Whats wrong with Fouad? lol

 

[NkdSingularity]

no lol his 4 is a bit bigger than Cage's f3 hitbox, but unlike f3, its a safe launcher. It also extremely hard to whiff punish. oh yeah, and repling to your post about lightning: Rain has an extremely fast teleport. Probably second behind Raiden. you cant just willy nilly zone him out. once you start respecting the teleport, he can startup his s tier footsies.

you witty sumbitch

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I agree Rui, i feel kitana only has 3 bad MU's which are Sonya, Kenshi, and Freddy, but she can prevail by her self, and can do better without all the counterpicking going on.

I might just go All Kitana from now on, Which I pretty much have been doing except at Texas Showdown

 

[GamerBlake90]

I don't entirely agree with this.

Even though I main Sonya and she has few bad match-ups, I still keep Raiden to the side to cover for the ones she does have. Not to mention I may not be at the top of my game with Sonya and I need to make up for it with another character. For this reason, I play around half the roster so that I have various options.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Question.... There are a ton of characters in this game. Why Do I have to stick with one?

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Question.... There are a ton of characters in this game. Why Do I have to stick with one?

No one is telling you to stick to one character, it's just not necessary to counterpick for everyone.
You can certainly do it if you don't have faith in your main character, but nobody is restricting you to just play one character.

 

[F.Sanchez(trojanmann22)]

Reptile is definitely in this list. The only chars I have trouble with are mileena and sonya. It's not because it's a bad matchup, its because I suck and I haven't played the matchup enough. Counter picking is for the weak in my opinion.

 

[Relaxedstate]

You don't have to play at the highest level to know it. But I'm saying that I'm convinced that Raiden at the highest level i.e. on REO's, Curbo's or CD Jr's level would hold down his weight against the likes of Jax, Cage etc. I think that because he had bad experiences (understandably) against those players, it appears that Raiden struggles. I just disagreed with him. Don't get me wrong, his opinion is no less valid than mine. Opinion after all is...opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

I mean if you asked the best Raiden player in the world at the moment (I'd say BWizz), I'm sure he would share similar sentiments to what I feel.

yeahhh lol. I'm just getting on your case man.
I do think Cdjr and company would destroy with the thunder god if they so chose..., but that is mostly because I believe Player MU is much greater the Character MU. Tiers lists are an endless circle of trying to objectify the subjective experience. I always put players first, character second.