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I can't beat this character Part II: Mental Breakdownaloo

For anyone that saw my first thread on the topic, I know have video evidence of what exactly Jade does to me.

First thread: https://testyourmight.com/threads/i-cant-beat-this-character.72834/

These two videos are the last two games (I won the first game) of a Kombat League set and I think perfectly represent what I was talking about in that thread. I was streaming too a hefty ZERO viewers at the time but didn't have my Twitch settings set up to keep past broadcasts, so had to get this footage from reliving the trauma and recording it on my PS4 lol.

2nd game of the set:

Last game of the set:

I'm hoping this let's people get what I meant exactly by that first thread. If I could have captured the audio you would have heard me have a minor mental breakdown after the second game. I was already a few beers in and had been in a bad mental state all day, so this really, REALLY hurt.

I just want to enjoy playing my favourite franchise EVER again (I mean, I have the fucking logo tattoed on my leg ffs). I'm putting myself through this in an attempt to try and develop that thick skin that seems to be needed when playing online. I say that because I've been playing at a competitive level since the launch of MK X, so I'm used to facing opponents in a mostly offline setting and on that same level that think about the game from a technical and more measured perspective. This is why Kombat League players fuck me up so much.

I also want to shine a light on something I don't see (at least from what I remember) creators and/or community members talking about very much and that's the mentality that goes into playing at this level.

Updating this (22/04/2020) with one of my comments just in case people miss it.

A lot of you guys are missing the point ,which to be fair I didn't make very well at the time considering I was acting emotionally and a few too many beers in hahaha. This isn't about matchup knowledge, I mostly know what is punishable. This is about the play style that 99.5% of Jade players use which a lot of the time tilts and frustrates me into oblivion.

So yeah, what I'm trying to unravel and understand more is what goes into tilting, how to better keep your composure under pressure and the anxiety around it all. It's a bit personal but I feel like I'll never get to the next level of competitive play without getting past this.
 
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In first and second game u had a clear win with f 24 into sun ( or just flat sun ray on ground) ray but u went for f 243, prolly a panic move i guess . U used CG a lil bit less then i would but then aggain this jade was a masher of sorts so ur jalis did more dmg . When he goes for his wiggle stick at range u got a right idea to throw disc at him but i would say a lil bit too late . As for unblockable u could of used it a lot more . In a lot of cases u used f24 when u could of gone for dash unblockable and i think he would of eaten it at least 3/5 times , maybe even more . As for the rest u played well , u just ran into her wiggle stick too much with f24 . Im also a KK player , praise the sun!
 

appo

º°˜¨EU¨˜°º
you plain and simple want to much and get yourself killed.
when you have the life lead there is no reason for you to always try to go in with the same things just for you to get counterpoked. the timer is on your side. chill, use your sunray thing to heal yourself or deal damage to her slowly to make her impatient.

you lost because you have no patient and press buttons/try to attack when you dont need to against a opponent who himself seems to like to do the same but on the more defensive side of things not counting the times you cornered yourself. thats the overall reason why you lost.
could go into details like bad punishes and stuff but thats not the main reason you lost these sets.
 

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
I suffer from the same mindset i have no patience i always want to initiate the fight even if im up on life .. although you can actually block :oops:
 

mrapchem

Noob
The Jade player kept using the B1 into the rest of the special string(I don't know the rest of the string's name). However, B1 is a high, so you can D3 or D4 it as Kotal Kahn so that Jades don't continuously abuse it on you.

Additionally, I fought against a good friend of mine who was using Jade while I was Sonya and he tried to use the aforementioned string on me. I was able to interrupt his entire string right after I blocked the B1 with a 10-frame F4, so perhaps you can lab that option also. It could be distance-dependent, male/female hitbox-dependent or it could be a built-in weakness of the string across the entire cast, but at least now you know that it's a possibility.

I will also say this: for the bad reputation that MK11 gets on this site, the game really is the most well-balanced NRS title to date and it is possible to beat any character with just about every other character, even the top-tiers. Try to not allow yourself to be defeated at the character select screen. Be determined to adapt to your opponent based on their gameplay - not their character choice - and also find a way to make them adapt to you. Don't be afraid to try some of your other characters against more annoying opponents, especially if your character punishes for high damage.
 

mrapchem

Noob
The Jade player kept using the B1 into the rest of the special string(I don't know the rest of the string's name). However, B1 is a high, so you can D3 or D4 it as Kotal Kahn so that Jades don't continuously abuse it on you.

Additionally, I fought against a good friend of mine who was using Jade while I was Sonya and he tried to use the aforementioned string on me. I was able to interrupt his entire string right after I blocked the B1 with a 10-frame F4, so perhaps you can lab that option also. It could be distance-dependent, male/female hitbox-dependent or it could be a built-in weakness of the string across the entire cast, but at least now you know that it's a possibility.

I will also say this: for the bad reputation that MK11 gets on this site, the game really is the most well-balanced NRS title to date and it is possible to beat any character with just about every other character, even the top-tiers. Try to not allow yourself to be defeated at the character select screen. Be determined to adapt to your opponent based on their gameplay - not their character choice - and also find a way to make them adapt to you. Don't be afraid to try some of your other characters against more annoying opponents, especially if your character punishes for high damage.

I also have a recorded set of me fighting against a Jade player

 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
For this first video, I'm gunna go into detail here and point out notable mistakes. Little things like missed hit confirms, improperly blocking a low/OH, etc. I won't be bothering with.

0:14 - the wakeup forward roll completely negated all of your progress towards pushing her to the corner. No bueno
0:28 - not enhancing the command grab also negated all of your progress towards pushing her to the corner. Also lost damage.
First round - I saw you block maybe 4-5 times in total as you seem hell bent on smashing buttons. It succeeded this round because the Jade didn't seem interested in blocking ever, but you need to slow down and be more methodical.

1:10 to 1:15 - literally no reason to advance against this variation of Jade. Drop a sun ray then begin absorbing her projectiles. When she does come in, you'll have a huge damage boost to smack her around with.
2:00 to 2:05 - once again, no reason to advance right here. You have the life lead and he's mashing the reflect. Just sun ray yourself (NOT her) and absorb any projectiles. The more time she wastes, the more life she has to get through when she does finally come to you.
Second round - stop jumping at Jade. You don't have an aerial special in this variation.

3:15 to 3:30 - sun ray? she has less than 1% life. One tick ends her. Literally just needed to dump a ray on yourself after getting hit by the low at 3:18.
Third round - don't dump sun rays on her when you aren't full life (unless it's specifically to kill that last 1-2% life). Sun ray does very little damage on average due to people moving out of it. Instead, you can either solidify your current life lead OR minimize their life lead. Jade has 0 threat potential to you at full screen in this variation due to your absorb so just patiently soak up some Vitamin D and either absorb her projectiles or sit there ducking

Overall against Jade - B2 (wiggle stick) is a high. Don't dash in if he's mashing this at a distance to beat your advancement. Just walk and duck. It is super death on whiff for Jade. In addition, the wiggle stick string in this variation has a massive gap between the first move and when she starts swinging her staff around. Blow her up for it. For example: at 3:17 when you block the last hit of wiggle stick and she starts doing the rest of the string, she's more than close enough for you to either poke out with Kotal's enormous D4 or do your advancing high (F2 I believe?).

Overall in general - calm down. slow down. In this first video, there are very VERY few instances where it looks like you're actually thinking about what you're doing as opposed to just.. doing things. You are literally the best opponent for Jade players because of this. The Jade was consistently doing the exact same patterns up close, at full screen, and when you attempted to advance. If you slow down and start to read / respond instead of simply acting because you want to, you'll have more success avoiding and punishing things as well as timing your offense.
 

Zviko

Noob
You could probably D4 this Jade to death, she got nothing but B2. Also, I'm pretty sure you can interrupt her B2 string with your F1 or whatever your 9f high is.
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
Not saying this in a rude way, but this thread is proof of why people who complain about aspects and characters in this game should assess how much of it is their fault, not the game’s. I watched like 30 seconds of the video and immediately I noticed poor decision making, that’s nothing to do with the character.
 

ZBirdV8

Flocker
Jade's only overhead is reactable. Walk-don't dash, and crouch block. Eating chip is fine, eating throws is fine. The temptation is to get in range of your longest reaching move and then push that move, but don't do this. Continue to walk in and crouch block. They are either going to have to let you walk up close where you have all your options, or they are going to have to start taking measures to stop your advance-walking up to you and throwing out chains/throws, or jumping at you. That's what you want to force. Once they can't safely throw the projectiles the fight tilts your way. Understand that it's OK if you don't get in every time, understand that getting in doesn't mean you automatically win. You want to force a situation where they have to do things and make guesses. They are at a disadvantage when they have to do this. I just had this epiphany after a long set with a Jade player today. Patience is everything in these fights. They are trying to make you impatient and wreckless. Don't let them do it and you will win more often than not.
 
That deadly assassin combo come on bro.......it's so EASY to punish....after back 2 you can either A. Use a fast move to hit her since there i a big gap or B. JUMP! and she goes right under you! Then you punish her.....you seemed to be jumping any other time but after that extended combo string! Never just jump at her when you aren't even close she will easily back 2 and hit you with her pole or shadow kick. She didnt even zone really . No reason to get hit by the combo.
 
A lot of you guys are missing the point ,which to be fair I didn't make very well at the time considering I was acting emotionally and a few too many beers in hahaha. This isn't about matchup knowledge, I mostly know what is punishable. This is about the play style that 99.5% of Jade players use which a lot of the time tilts and frustrates me into oblivion.

So yeah, what I'm trying to unravel and understand more is what goes into tilting, how to better keep your composure under pressure and the anxiety around it all. It's a bit personal but I feel like I'll never get to the next level of competitive play without getting past this.
 
Not saying this in a rude way, but this thread is proof of why people who complain about aspects and characters in this game should assess how much of it is their fault, not the game’s. I watched like 30 seconds of the video and immediately I noticed poor decision making, that’s nothing to do with the character.
That's actually why I can't beat this character, I am ENTIRELY the reason why. Check my comment above, I'm not focusing on Jade completely more-so the whole mentality of it all.
 
you seemed to be jumping any other time but after that extended combo string!
This is another thing I'm trying to get to the bottom of. My muscle memory is constantly make me do things that I know are making things harder for me than they should. I was aware of this almost the entire set yet was still doing it. I wanna figure out how to break terrible habits like this.
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
That's actually why I can't beat this character, I am ENTIRELY the reason why. Check my comment above, I'm not focusing on Jade completely more-so the whole mentality of it all.
In that case, it’s about making better decisions during the match overall via good awareness of her options, her health, her meter, and most importantly the opponents tendencies.

One of the most clear and easily fixable mistakes you made was doing f243 and getting punished for it instead of doing f24 sunlight when he had like 2% left. You can easily remedy that by just simply paying attention to his health and being ready to use sunlight for the chip out.
 

Yousef

Noob
I know I'm not supposed to comment here as I was crying about Jade just two days ago so I have just a couple of points here
1.you were kinda tilted and just wanted to get in ,like in the first video 0:11
That string has a pretty generous gab in it enough to start a combo or atleast poke if you're close (I don't play kotal) but I main JC and joker and I get a combo out of it
2. Why would u even chase her if you're high on health I believe that kotal's sun can deal damage to her even with the purple thingy on spend a meter so the sun can chase her or use it on yourself to heal if you don't have the meter
This Jade is a masher more than being a good player ,just a little patience is enough to teabag him until he cries to his mommy
I really hate disrespectful players like that

Edit: the gab in the string is after the third hit when she turns to hit you with her legs
And use the unbockable more often as mixup when he's blocking with the overhead /low ending of your string
 
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NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Best advise I can give you is don't play this match up to win. It really doesn't matter if you loose if you learn from it. Pick 1 thing that is giving you trouble and focus on that. Take the small victories.

Example would be to focus on punishing wiggle stick. At 1.37 of the 1st video you wiff punished it.
Lab to see if this is legit and focus just on that.
That's 1 piece of the puzzle. If you can do that consistently take that as a win even if you loose the match. I can't give you any advice on what to do with kortal as I don't use him. To be honest I only play mk11 when the Jack Daniels kicks my ass and my tekken execution is gone for the night.

Over time you will have the answers. Don't pressure yourself for wins/rank because it doesn't mean anything. Just enjoy the journey.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
It’s hard to keep your composure and not get mad at how certain players play, especially when what they’re doing is working.

First thing you need to do is not put much emotion into any one match, especially if it’s just casuals. And anything outside of a MM or tournament is in fact a casual match. Putting too much emotion into it will 100% effect your decisions. I know that’s easier said than done, just something to consider.

Secondly, replace those emotional knee jerk reactions into productive thoughts. Ask yourself “okay, what is this player doing that is working?”. “Why did they make the decision that they made, and/or why did I make the decision that I made”. “What is their next move most likely to be?”. These are very general, but the point is to replace the emotional responses to positive and productive thoughts.

The opponent is going to do anything and everything they can in order to win. If that means playing the absolute lamest way possible, just be willing to expect and accept that. If they start imploring a strategy that you cannot beat, take that same strategy to training mode and learn ways to defend against it and beat it. Basically, you can’t think of the opponents emotions. Meaning, you can’t think “oh this guy is just being an asshole”. It sounds weird, but Try not to think of them as humans with emotional thought. Try to think of them as robots doing whatever most maximizes the likely hood of them winning.

That should at least help you get out of the mindset of getting tilted easily. Or at the very least help you focus more. @GeoffBedlam
 
Best advise I can give you is don't play this match up to win. It really doesn't matter if you loose if you learn from it. Pick 1 thing that is giving you trouble and focus on that. Take the small victories.

Example would be to focus on punishing wiggle stick. At 1.37 of the 1st video you wiff punished it.
Lab to see if this is legit and focus just on that.
That's 1 piece of the puzzle. If you can do that consistently take that as a win even if you loose the match. I can't give you any advice on what to do with kortal as I don't use him. To be honest I only play mk11 when the Jack Daniels kicks my ass and my tekken execution is gone for the night.

Over time you will have the answers. Don't pressure yourself for wins/rank because it doesn't mean anything. Just enjoy the journey.
This is what I've been been trying to do, focus on the one thing they do that messes me up and stop that. My problem is that I just panic and get so overwhelmed that all my mathcup knowledge goes right out the window hahah. Thanks for the advice though man, I appreciate it :)

It’s hard to keep your composure and not get mad at how certain players play, especially when what they’re doing is working.

First thing you need to do is not put much emotion into any one match, especially if it’s just casuals. And anything outside of a MM or tournament is in fact a casual match. Putting too much emotion into it will 100% effect your decisions. I know that’s easier said than done, just something to consider.

Secondly, replace those emotional knee jerk reactions into productive thoughts. Ask yourself “okay, what is this player doing that is working?”. “Why did they make the decision that they made, and/or why did I make the decision that I made”. “What is their next move most likely to be?”. These are very general, but the point is to replace the emotional responses to positive and productive thoughts.

The opponent is going to do anything and everything they can in order to win. If that means playing the absolute lamest way possible, just be willing to expect and accept that. If they start imploring a strategy that you cannot beat, take that same strategy to training mode and learn ways to defend against it and beat it. Basically, you can’t think of the opponents emotions. Meaning, you can’t think “oh this guy is just being an asshole”. It sounds weird, but Try not to think of them as humans with emotional thought. Try to think of them as robots doing whatever most maximizes the likely hood of them winning.

That should at least help you get out of the mindset of getting tilted easily. Or at the very least help you focus more. @GeoffBedlam
Throughout my whole life I've always had A LOT of trouble regulating my emotions, so playing MK really tests that. The thing that does it for me most is that when you're facing someone in Kombat League there's no communication and I go into every game assuming the other person is gonna be a dick about things (unless I recognise their tag, that is). Communication was a big part of my time with MK X because I was doing a lot of offline stuff so always had somewhere there to ask "Wait, wait, how minus is that?" or whatever, you know?

I really like the idea of not thinking about what the other person is feeling because that's what gets me 90% of the time. If I let that happen then I almost always get into my own head and lose. And this isn't about losing, I'm happy to if I can learn something from it and get better through it but my frustration and anxiety around the game right now comes from not being able to get past the tilt and letting it get to me so much. I know I'm a better player than that so it really upsets me.

Thanks for the input man, it's giving me a bit more insight on it all. Gonna try out this new way of thinking :)
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
This is what I've been been trying to do, focus on the one thing they do that messes me up and stop that. My problem is that I just panic and get so overwhelmed that all my mathcup knowledge goes right out the window hahah. Thanks for the advice though man, I appreciate it :)



Throughout my whole life I've always had A LOT of trouble regulating my emotions, so playing MK really tests that. The thing that does it for me most is that when you're facing someone in Kombat League there's no communication and I go into every game assuming the other person is gonna be a dick about things (unless I recognise their tag, that is). Communication was a big part of my time with MK X because I was doing a lot of offline stuff so always had somewhere there to ask "Wait, wait, how minus is that?" or whatever, you know?

I really like the idea of not thinking about what the other person is feeling because that's what gets me 90% of the time. If I let that happen then I almost always get into my own head and lose. And this isn't about losing, I'm happy to if I can learn something from it and get better through it but my frustration and anxiety around the game right now comes from not being able to get past the tilt and letting it get to me so much. I know I'm a better player than that so it really upsets me.

Thanks for the input man, it's giving me a bit more insight on it all. Gonna try out this new way of thinking :)
No problem man. Just know that a lot of competitive players struggle with this in every genre of competitive gaming. It is something I struggled with as well. You have to teach yourself to not react with emotion, basically going against your own instincts. The thing is though, this is something you 100% have to consciously work at. It’s not something you can achieve overnight. It took me awhile to shake off this mindset. My process was, any time I started getting frustrated, I tried to catch myself and then just replaced that emotion with logical thoughts as I mentioned above. And then stopped caring what my opponent was feeling emotionally as well. Because it doesn’t matter if the opponent IS being an asshole, it only works if YOU think they’re being an asshole. Because that then will effect your play for the entire match and probably the entire set.

Just takes time, practice and experience.
 
No problem man. Just know that a lot of competitive players struggle with this in every genre of competitive gaming. It is something I struggled with as well. You have to teach yourself to not react with emotion, basically going against your own instincts. The thing is though, this is something you 100% have to consciously work at. It’s not something you can achieve overnight. It took me awhile to shake off this mindset. My process was, any time I started getting frustrated, I tried to catch myself and then just replaced that emotion with logical thoughts as I mentioned above. And then stopped caring what my opponent was feeling emotionally as well. Because it doesn’t matter if the opponent IS being an asshole, it only works if YOU think they’re being an asshole. Because that then will effect your play for the entire match and probably the entire set.

Just takes time, practice and experience.
Yeah, I'll have to work on catching myself before I get too frustrated. There was a point a few months back were I got good at it but the current state of the world and other personal things have set me back a fair few steps.

I also don't really see many top dudes talking about keeping their composure and whatnot, so thought I'd try shining more light on it through my own experience.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Imo the reason you're getting frustrated is that you didn't adapt.

The Jade player noticed you being aggressive, and just kept spamming b1 to check you while you were moving in. And you kept walking into it, because you wanted to play your original gameplan, and it frustrated you that you couldn't just do what you originally wanted to do.

This is basic yomi -- it's part of fighting games. When your opponent adapts, you need to adapt as well.

If you'd been patient and started specifically playing to bait and whiff punish b1, either by ducking or by walking forward and then back just out of range, you'd have kept your advantage.

Imo the biggest thing that will help you is changing your mindset from, "I can't do what I want to do, this is so frustrating" to "my opponent is doing something that keeps me from doing what I want -- how do I now adjust to keep them from doing what's working for them?"

Never give up mentally mid match. Always be trying to figure out a way around what's happening. Adjust constantly. Adopt this mentality and play your opponent, not their character. And you'll have a lot more success.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Yeah, I'll have to work on catching myself before I get too frustrated. There was a point a few months back were I got good at it but the current state of the world and other personal things have set me back a fair few steps.

I also don't really see many top dudes talking about keeping their composure and whatnot, so thought I'd try shining more light on it through my own experience.
Also, I actually made an article ages ago (about 9 years ago now) here on TYM where I actually briefly discussed controlling your emotions (since then I HAVE made edits here and there to include the news games though, but very small edits). And a lot of the stuff in that thread I’ve already mentioned here, but I think the thread itself may be beneficial to you. It’s gotten a lot of good feedback over the years, and you may have already seen it. But in case you haven’t, I’ll link it here: https://testyourmight.com/threads/tips-on-becoming-a-better-player-part-1-how-losing-helps-you-get-better.3674/
 
Something ive realized no one ever mentions against Jade; dashing towards her within her wiggle stick range is dangerous, you should only be dashing to right outside her wiggle stick range, then just walk in so you dont get your dash interrupted. You only want to dash when gain that initial distance.Her wiggle stick is a high starting off, you could walk close to her then duck, then interrupt her wiggle stick string because it has a huge gap after the first high hits. It seems like that was the main problem here cuz her wiggle stick stops any advancing move. Dont feel bad man I lose alot against Jade as well. Its clear to see you are way better than the Jade player( how it is most of the time in KL) but she got away with Jade BS because of the MU. Fuck that wiggle stick lmao i sware it has invincibility frames or something cuz i always get hit by it late because like Noob Saibot's KB it literally backs up her hurtbox. And depending on the spacing after a blocked wiggle stick she could d2 and it would stop any advancing move.
 
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