What's new

How to play against Defense Jabs

X820

Noob
That seems awfully excessive to me just to remove something that's an annoyance. You'd inevitably nerf some of the slower characters like Cyrax who have to depend on things like jab baits just to keep up with the better characters.
A longer recovery for beeing hit while block-punching would be nice, still usable but pointless to abuse in a way that is just too stupid to even want to use.

As a sidenote: Why does Cyrax "have to depend" on jab baiting anyway..

I've played a couple of good cyrax's and they utterly destroy you without it.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
He doesn't depend on it, and what it would change is, you'd have to go into block if you held the block down to the point where the jab ends, which generally during jab baits you do anyway, it's just there'd be more risk of the block animation happening by accident which I could slow it down, at least depending on how you did it. It also may be possible to just make it so you specifically cannot actually perform a jab if you already holding block. There are some moves in the games that can be peformed while holding block, specifically moves like Kung Lao and Sheeva's teleports. These moves would be unaffected. It basically becomes a block override on jabs. It is a complex way to do things, but I think it's within the game's programming that it could be done.
 
A longer recovery for beeing hit while block-punching would be nice, still usable but pointless to abuse in a way that is just too stupid to even want to use.

As a sidenote: Why does Cyrax "have to depend" on jab baiting anyway..

I've played a couple of good cyrax's and they utterly destroy you without it.
That's not really an argument. Cyrax doesn't have any quick offensive moves like most of the cast does(spin, teleport, whatever), so he has to get more utilization out of his other options to make up for it, one of which being bait jabs. I don't see why you'd go through all the trouble just to remove def jabs, especially when there's other stuff that's a lot more effective like corner jabs.
 
I'm not in favor of tinkering with anything in the game just because something is an annoyance.

Like I said, teach people to beat it and it becomes a non-issue.

Scrubs will continue to be scrubs, regardless of the tools they have at their disposal.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
I'm not in favor of tinkering with anything in the game just because something is an annoyance.

Like I said, teach people to beat it and it becomes a non-issue.

Scrubs will continue to be scrubs, regardless of the tools they have at their disposal.
Lucky day, this is just generalized talk about balancing and changing parts of the game within the game's own system, if we had the ability to. Sometimes we spend more time on one thing than another. There are certain things that shouldn't operate the way they do and it's all about offering ideas. Mostly so far it's been character specific stuff.
 
Sure, I understand that.

And I'm not not opposed to balancing, sort of like what they did with customizing the SFIII rom.

I just like to see balance issues approached from a strategy standpoint first.

I'd be inerested to see how the game played with the suggested changes at least.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Well, we've been tackling this specific game for 15 years, and most of what I say is based on the input from many top players in combination with my own analysis. I think we all know the biggest issues with specific characters who are too powerful and too weak, so if we ever do have a way to balance these old games, there will definite testing of multiple suggestions. We have a thread that talks about all of it in light of the SF3 hack.
 
Yeah the more I think about it, I think I would be all for an overhaul to specific character issues. Sort of along the lines of what HDR did to SFII.

Earlier I was thinking the talk was just targeting the jabs alone, but if changes were made to the overall balance I would be all for it.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Yeah specifically here it's been about the jabs, there are some issues with jabs that absolutely need to be fixed. There is a corner lockdown infinite/inescapable jab pattern that would be fixed by increasing the window of time that 3 consecutive blocked jabs must be performed with so it will push you back. Basically, it should work in a way that no matter what 3 will push you back as long as there is no break in the cycle. Right now, if you stretch out 3 jabs over the set amount of time, you can jab forever, you opponent cannot counter, and you will never be pushed out. There's no way around it so that would be one of the first corrections.
 

X820

Noob
That's not really an argument. Cyrax doesn't have any quick offensive moves like most of the cast does(spin, teleport, whatever), so he has to get more utilization out of his other options to make up for it, one of which being bait jabs. I don't see why you'd go through all the trouble just to remove def jabs, especially when there's other stuff that's a lot more effective like corner jabs.
If you read the very first post in this thread you'll comprehend why I wrote that, corner jabs are far less of an annoyance in general then the tactic to wich this thread is dedicated too.

Two people stated that Cyrax does not depend on bait jabbing, I suggest you play a good Cyrax, you might learn a thing or two :)

OH btw: start a game of umk3, pick Cyrax, then do a F,D Block.

You'll be amazed.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Good thing Def Jabs can be done by going from Back to Down! Whew!

A good Cyrax is not dependant on whether he/she uses Def Jabs. It is a good tactic for locking down someone in the corner after throwing a bomb on their ass though lol
 

AC1984

Kaballin!
From personal experience, (Don't wanna sound confident or whatever,just saying that it doesn't scares me that much and doesn't make me passive) I do not really have that much trouble with those jabs if my opponent uses any character other than Kabal.
 
From personal experience, (Don't wanna sound confident or whatever,just saying that it doesn't scares me that much and doesn't make me passive) I do not really have that much trouble with those jabs if my opponent uses any character other than Kabal.
Very true for me as well. Kabal's Jabs have priority over every other character. Plus while standing there 'defense jabbing' (is that what we're calling it?) you can always be prepared to do a spin if your opponent slips up. So as the opponent you're always aware of this so you're more cautious and you can't do as much as you could against other characters doing this.

Ban Kabal, that should do it. :)
 
If you read the very first post in this thread you'll comprehend why I wrote that, corner jabs are far less of an annoyance in general then the tactic to wich this thread is dedicated too.

Two people stated that Cyrax does not depend on bait jabbing, I suggest you play a good Cyrax, you might learn a thing or two :)

OH btw: start a game of umk3, pick Cyrax, then do a F,D Block.

You'll be amazed.
This is getting irritating. Please read my posts thoroughly, I never said he depends on def jabs or jab baits, I said that because of his lack of offensive moves, he has to rely more on alternatives such as jab baits and def jabs. Mentioning Cyrax's teleport is worthless to this discussion, it's not a good offensive move like the other teleports, which was the whole point.

If you want to get sarcastic with me though you can always play me a few rounds and see what I know before running your mouth.
 

AC1984

Kaballin!
Very true for me as well. Kabal's Jabs have priority over every other character. Plus while standing there 'defense jabbing' (is that what we're calling it?) you can always be prepared to do a spin if your opponent slips up. So as the opponent you're always aware of this so you're more cautious and you can't do as much as you could against other characters doing this.

Ban Kabal, that should do it. :)
Don't ban Kabal, he just needs to play a regular game.
 

X820

Noob
This is getting irritating. Please read my posts thoroughly, I never said he depends on def jabs or jab baits, I said that because of his lack of offensive moves, he has to rely more on alternatives such as jab baits and def jabs. Mentioning Cyrax's teleport is worthless to this discussion, it's not a good offensive move like the other teleports, which was the whole point.

If you want to get sarcastic with me though you can always play me a few rounds and see what I know before running your mouth.
Running my mouth? lol whatever.

Maybe you should not say one thing and then mean something different.

Sure I'll play you, I'll play just about anyone, but if it's to prove yourself or make some kind of statement, wel that's just stupid now isn't it.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
This is getting irritating. Please read my posts thoroughly, I never said he depends on def jabs or jab baits, I said that because of his lack of offensive moves, he has to rely more on alternatives such as jab baits and def jabs. Mentioning Cyrax's teleport is worthless to this discussion, it's not a good offensive move like the other teleports, which was the whole point.

If you want to get sarcastic with me though you can always play me a few rounds and see what I know before running your mouth.
Splash, your not that far out of line yet, but your headed that way. He was engaging in the discussion, not "running his mouth". Dont take everything so personally. Play nice now ;)
 
Running my mouth? lol whatever.

Maybe you should not say one thing and then mean something different.

Sure I'll play you, I'll play just about anyone, but if it's to prove yourself or make some kind of statement, wel that's just stupid now isn't it.
"Such as", meaning "including but not limited to" is pretty clear, don't skim my posts and then blame misinterpretation on me. Proving oneself over this may be stupid, but you were the one talking to me like I don't know anything even though you've never played me.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
"Such as", meaning "including but not limited to" is pretty clear, don't skim my posts and then blame misinterpretation on me. Proving oneself over this may be stupid, but you were the one talking to me like I don't know anything even though you've never played me.
You do have a wicked tongue.
 
You're right, I'm overreacting, it just gets to me when I make a point and people dismiss it like I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been playing UMK3 for well over a decade and have been playing competitively for a good 5 years now, and I know I've gotten a very good understanding of the game. The way X820's post was worded, it read to me like he was talking down my abilities as a Cyrax player, and I apologize if that's not what you meant.
 

X820

Noob
"Such as", meaning "including but not limited to" is pretty clear, don't skim my posts and then blame misinterpretation on me. Proving oneself over this may be stupid, but you were the one talking to me like I don't know anything even though you've never played me.
You never said 'such as', you named cyrax doing jab baits as a primairy tactic then claimed that a good cyrax player not needing it "isnt really a good reason", with it ignoring the fact that a good player benefits a character to it's fullest.
Just so you could stick to your oppinion only to partially back down from it later on.

What is the appropiate reaction to that you think?

Now, please have a little freakout once again, it's cute how you act like you are beeing attacked while in fact you are the one who is cornering herself, think about that.

As a sidenote: forget about us playing. If your previous post wasn't yet another rant I'd be down for it, but judging from your last 3 posts, to me you have a scrubby attitude, I don't feel like dealing with that.

Moving on...
 

X820

Noob
You're right, I'm overreacting, it just gets to me when I make a point and people dismiss it like I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been playing UMK3 for well over a decade and have been playing competitively for a good 5 years now, and I know I've gotten a very good understanding of the game. The way X820's post was worded, it read to me like he was talking down my abilities as a Cyrax player, and I apologize if that's not what you meant.
Apparently we posted at the same time, all good let's forget it.
 
ANYWAYS point is I don't think there's enough reason to remove them, except under the circumstance where all characters as well as the game engine would receive massive rebalances, and def jabs were to be removed to maintain the new balance and present a more enjoyable competitive atmosphere.