How to improve on execution

[Juggs]

I started playing SFIV again recently and realized one of my big problems, execution. I've had this problem in SFIV since the beginning. I switched to a stick for about 6 months, and I still was messing up my execution. I recently went back to a controller, and noticed I am doing a lot better with it. Though even still, I am messing up my execution.

Is there any tips you guys have to help? Remember, don't say get a stick, I have one and suck worse with it. Any advice would be appreciated. I know I should go to SRK for this, but those guys over there have ego's that put MKU's ego's to shame. Don't feel like dealing with that shit.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

What problems are you having with execution? Messing up special moves? Missing cancels? Missing links?

 

[Juggs]

What problems are you having with execution? Messing up special moves? Missing cancels? Missing links?

Combo execution.

 

[STORMS]

Combo execution.

since you're doing better with the controller... use a pad. Then just practice your combos.

Me giving advice on combo execution is kinda funny, but especially the 'pad' part may help alot.

What characters and what combos are you messing up, exactly? Be a bit more specific.

 

[oBryant]

since you're doing better with the controller... use a pad. Then just practice your combos.

Me giving advice on combo execution is kinda funny, but especially the 'pad' part may help alot.

What characters and what combos are you messing up, exactly? Be a bit more specific.

wrong.

Get a stick with sanwa parts and just practice. Only info that can really help is just practice

 

[STORMS]

wrong.

Get a stick with sanwa parts and just practice. Only info that can really help is just practice

preference. some people prefer stick and some a pad.

 

[Tim Static]

what they prefer is what they prefer.

pads were made to play Mario Bro

sticks were made to play SF.

Juggs, first, you need to upgrade that stick. you need decent parts on that thing if you want to get better. Its like taking a beater to Daytona and expectin to beat NASCAR racers since you're all driving cars....

2nd, you really need to immerse yourself with it. Dont play it some, then stop, then play again later then stop and expect greatness. Sure, you feel more comfortable with a pad because you learned MK on one, etc. But the fact your still more comfortable is the problem. Keep at it and dont stop. The rewards will be great.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Combo execution.

Funny, I been havin the same damn problem lately, and it's not like for learning NEW stuff.....I'm having trouble executing fairly basic combos that I BEEN had mastered years, even decades ago, and idk wtf is wrong w/ me...lol...JUGGS, u want my HONEST opinion? I really don't think there is a good enough controller out there to register every input, regardless of how consistent the person is. In my 20+ year quest for a perfect Fighting pad, i think w/ the exception of Tekken, Arcade Sticks should be used for Fighting Games. I also think we' re probably doing the right inputs more often than it appears, and our timing can be off. In cases like this I would say say "the better you can identify the source of the problem, the better you can fix it"....however, if in fact you are doing everything properly, perhaps the 360's D-pad is responsible. 360 is really bad, but i play differently and seem to have a DIFFERENT pet peeve about EVERY system's controller.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I have to say, pad is 100% fine. I mean look at people like Khio and Shizza, they're two of the best SFIV players in so cal, both on a Specialists team, Shizza was even the captain of his. I can execute pretty much everything on pad, the exception being stuff like gen/hondas normal xx hands.

The only real advantages of a stick are being able to plink and double tap, I would say, which is really useful.



And as for combo execution, be more specific as to which combos you're messing up, but a generic tip would be to go into training mode and turn button inputs on. You might see some mistakes.

 

[oBryant]

preference. some people prefer stick and some a pad.

fact is stick > pad.


Preference or not. You can only go so far with a pad.

 

[oBryant]

The only real advantages of a stick are being able to plink and double tap, I would say, which is really useful.
.

plink, double tap, piano, easier motion execution, all the buttons are where they need to be. and its just plain out better. Only people that side with pads are pad players them self.

 

[Check]

to me, its a double edge sword. on a pad im better on the left side then i am on the right, where as on a stick im better on the right side then i am on the left

it all comes down to preference imo. from what i seen though keyboards offer the most direct inputs.

as for your question, im not going to tell you to get a better stick, but i will tell you to look for a better controller. for myself, the gamecube pad will always be the best for me, however i know its downfalls; clunky trigger buttons, things like teleslam are near impossible to do because the dpad is so small, but i will take those few minor things in exchange for more compressed inputs since the dpad is small enough where transitioning from high to low is too good for my defense. theres no gaps in between directionals like ps2 pads, which i also like. you just have to look for whats best for you. if you are struggling with combos, perhaps look for a controller that better suits your grip.

later

 

[Juggs]

Thanks for all the responses. I've tried a stick and stuck with it for six months. If it takes longer than that it's not even worth it.

And I am not using a pad on the controller, I use the analog. I use the pad for UMK3, but I have no problems with execution in that game. If I'm always going to be better using a controller, it would be retarded to use a stick just because it's generally better and the "accepted" choice. I already know a stick is better, but not for me. This thread was asking about execution, and I even stated that I've used a stick and have the same problem. I don't care if people think I'm a scrub because I use a controller, they can suck my dick. All I care about is doing well and having fun, and I do neither when I use a stick.

 

[Check]

And I am not using a pad on the controller, I use the analog. I use the pad for UMK3, but I have no problems with execution in that game.

To me, this is your problem, because well... i have the same problem in general with ALL games using the analog, i am simply not that good on it, and i wouldnt be able to do a single combo that ive done in the past 10 years on a analog stick. I find absolutely no benefit from pressing down and end up pressing down/back or down/forward. However, i will say that analogs have GREAT input response, but its just too picky for my liking (as mentioned above).

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I use the analog for SFIV on the 360 pad and I think it's great.

oBryant, trust me, in this age people have come out of the woodwork and shown that pad can be used effectively.

I mean, look at Shizza, he's insanely close to Valle in matches, and he uses a pad. Also you may not know of him but Khio is the best gief in So Cal, if not the entire US, and he uses pad.


If you think Stick has easier motion execution, you're wrong, and the buttons are extremely close to eachother, making it possibly easier than stick. I've even talked to keno about it and he supports pad. Literally the only things that stick has over pad is plinking and doing rapid tap moves like honda lp xx hp hands. Even some of those are possible though, all of Chun's EX leg combos are really easy on pad, and even stuff like hk xx hk legs. Really the only characters that you NEED stick for are honda and gen(not after super, then just honda really).

Trust me, as a stick and pad player, I'm 100% unbiased.

 

[AREZ God of War]

idk JUGGS, it seems to me that If you can use an analog stick successfully, over a pad and not have problems dealing w/ the springiness you SHOULD by all means be better on an Arcade Stick, I just think you should give it more time. For old people like me who grew up using an Arcade stick, it will come naturally, but you are young and I dare assume that you did not grow up in the arcades, nor LEARN to play any of these games on a Stick BEFORE a controller. I simply feel you should give it some more time. I can remember seeing the same people for months on end @ the same arcades, using the same shit, trying to learn new stuff w/ Arcade being the only option, now you won't see those people playing on anything BUT an Arcade stick, and I really think it has to do w/ what you learned on.

The fact that you prefer the Analog stick, (which IMO is the worst of the 4 choices), leads me to believe that you SHOULD play on an Arcade Stick, but need to have more faith in it, understand it works a bit differently, and I can also say that for those who learned on Pads, there are things that appear to be more difficult to do due to a MENTAL BLOCK caused by learning a certain way. For people who LEARNED fighting games on an Arcade Stick, this is just the opposite. I really think this advice will suit you best : FORGET what you have learned, just use the knowledge and experience you have obtained, and re-learn EVERYTHING on a Stick; In retrospect, whenever you fail @ doing something w/ the Arcade Stick that would normally work w/ the controller, just brush it off, tell yourself "I'm not playing a pad, and if I was I wouldn't be using this stick....i'm using the stick to get better WITH THE STICK".

This will aid you in learning to be better on the Arcade Stick, and rid you of the mentallity that you are better on a Pad. For Pad-players, ridding yourself of this mentality is essential to become a better stick player; you THINK you are better on the Pad because it is how YOU know how to play, but once adapted, an Arcade Stick offers much more potential-wise. Trust me, it is nothing more than a mentality. You advanced by getting an Arcade Stick and starting to learn it, why would you take steps BACKWARDS? I also must conclude that if you are still using controllers @ times, it is also contributing to preventing you from fully adapting to an Arcade Stick, so PACK UP THE CONTROLLERS ......and hide them in the closet....you will not excell at one when you are switching back and forth.

ok, I'm done....just wanted to submit that thought while it was fresh in my head. Try it, I wouldn't steer you wrong. Also, i read you saying u spent 6 months on a Stick....not to sound arrogant, but that 6 months ain't shit, Bruh....there is no time limit, it is simply the adjustment time needed for individuals which is different for everyone. You need to realize you spent YEARS on a controller, and 6 months on a Stick is trivial when held in comparison to that. You will have "Pad-tendencies" and "Pad-instincts" that will be involuntary, which need to be converted. People have spent much more time than that and STILL have problems doing certain things, so I STRESS you NEED more time to adapt, and STOP using a controller for ANY fighting Game......unless you play Tekken.

 

[Juggs]

I appreciate your input AREZ, but what I'm using isn't the problem. I've used a stick, and while the big buttons and being able to use all my fingers were a plus, I still didn't perform well when it came to combo execution. I actually do better with a controller. And using a joy stick, analog stick, or d-pad have really little to do with combo execution.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Hmmmm...lemme ask you a question, Have you ever tried holding the Arcade Stick like a WINEGLASS, as opposed to and over-hand grip on the knob? Something else to consider is that when playing on an Arcade Stick, it's hard NOT to slam and make hard motions, but I noticed if you restrict your movements to be "gentle" and "flowing", sticks seem to register much better.

Try playing very relaxed and don't allow yourself to get ancy and anxious...don't concern yourself w/ winning or losing...make your only goal to keep relaxed and calm .....a good way to do this is turn the sound down a good bit and LISTEN to yourself doing ur inputs. If you can hear the stick bumping the gate, ease up (obviously this is N/A for button-inputs), but I have noticed over the years, that the frivelous and frantic Stick-slamming maniacs tend to miss alot more often than cool and collective players.

It was never necessary in SF, but I witnessed ALOT of it, and it became REALLY prevalent when Killer Instinct got the spotlight.....I am undetermined in regards to how this affect a person's gameplay in KI (due to constant charging b/f ), but it is actually FAIL in KI2, which plays much more similar to SF, rather than having nearly everyone as charge characters as in the 1st KI. On a sidenote, I have noticed this to be just the opposite when using a controller...any controller.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Can you give us an example of a combo you mess up frequently? Even multiple if you can.

 

[9.95]

Juggs, adjusting to the stick is definitely worth the time investment. I'm the PERFECT example. I was a pad only player on both UMK3 and SF before starting tournaments. It honestly took me a solid year to become proficient on a stick in both games, but the outcome is that my execution on both games is far better, and with more options available to me in both games when compared to using a pad. I will say that certain motions on a pad are easier, even to this day, with my OFFICIAL PS2 Sega Saturn Pad(yeah, had to brag about that one...it's rare). Moves like hit confirming a low medium kick to super, etc... for some reason my thumb seems to move faster than my wrist or hand on a stick and I can hit confirm them better in SF on a pad... HOWEVER... after a year of stick use I have more problems completing combos, block strings, and other moves and commands that it seriously outweighs the ease of pad hit confirms to the point that I just learned to easily hit confirm using a stick.

Next thing I would recommend is to consider using a Happ stick. If you played in arcades at all in your childhood, you have used them and it's what you're currently used to. Most cheap sticks are Sanwa knockoffs and are nowhere near as good as a real Sanwa or a real Happ. Most people prefer Sanwa, I don't care...I can use both equally as well, but if there's a Happ available I'll use it. The Happ doesn't have the gate, so your execution is done by FEEL, not by the gate, so you're forced to execute properly. After learning Happ, then make the switch to Sanwa, or get a Sanwa and learn it's execution as well so that you're proficient on both. This isn't necessary, but I recommend it because if you learn to like Happ, you'll eventually need Sanwa since its so readily available that if you don't have a Happ for every single system you own you will wind up having to use a Sanwa...better off to be able to use both then.

Juggs, I was a total pad player 2 years ago. I'm telling you now that my execution in both games, SF and MK have improved 10-fold due to perseverance with the stick. You don't have to bandwagon it and use a Sanwa... and that could very well be your problem... try a Happ.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I've been using stick for almost a year now and my pad execution is still better the majority of the time.

Not saying its true for everyone, but there are exceptions.

 

[9.95]

I've been using stick for almost a year now and my pad execution is still better the majority of the time.

Not saying its true for everyone, but there are exceptions.

Just out of curiousity, do you switch back to pad when you get frustrated with the stick? If you do, that's part of the problem... using the pad as a crutch... you have to literally stop worrying about win/loss and just concentrate on execution, no matter what. The wins will eventually come back.

 

[oBryant]

I use the analog for SFIV on the 360 pad and I think it's great.

oBryant, trust me, in this age people have come out of the woodwork and shown that pad can be used effectively.

I mean, look at Shizza, he's insanely close to Valle in matches, and he uses a pad. Also you may not know of him but Khio is the best gief in So Cal, if not the entire US, and he uses pad.


If you think Stick has easier motion execution, you're wrong, and the buttons are extremely close to eachother, making it possibly easier than stick. I've even talked to keno about it and he supports pad. Literally the only things that stick has over pad is plinking and doing rapid tap moves like honda lp xx hp hands. Even some of those are possible though, all of Chun's EX leg combos are really easy on pad, and even stuff like hk xx hk legs. Really the only characters that you NEED stick for are honda and gen(not after super, then just honda really).

Trust me, as a stick and pad player, I'm 100% unbiased.

good luck on pad..


anyway juggs.. stick > pad..

What combos do you usually miss?

maybe someone can help me with sagats BnB cr.lk cr.lk cr.lp low TS FADC SRK..
for some reason the tiger shot doesnt come out when I roll the stick for down/back to forward and press cr.mk. This happens likr 3 out of 5 times

only info i can really give myself is practice.

 

[9.95]

You're most likely pressing the button too soon. Consciously do the move as if you're exaggerating the motion and you'll notice an improvement in execution... and you'll get used to it and then it will be natural.

 

[Juggs]

I understand the stick is better between the two. Trust me, I am the one who always has said that. It's just not better for me. If I am having the same problems on both a controller and an arcade stick, but I do much better and I am more comfortable on a controller, it would be illogical to use an arcade stick.

As far as which I am better with, it really comes down to the analog vs the joy stick for me. Though, that has little to do with combo execution. As you said Phil, I am a lot quicker with the analog using my thumb, than using my wrist. Also as Check said, on the left side I can't do anything really. Not to sound arrogant, but nothing game related takes me this long to become adpated to it. There's really no need for me to use a stick. If all tournaments were only on arcades there would be, but almost all SFIV tournaments and UMK3 tournaments are on console or PC.

I really didn't want this to turn into a stick vs controller thing. I already know the differences and advantages. Telling me the stick is better and to stay with it isn't helping, because I'm not going to do that.