How to improve on execution

[9.95]

Juggs, I get what you're saying, but I think you're misunderstanding me. In terms of execution, pad or stick, you just have to find the "feel" for the move and combo, and the timing for it, just like on any other game. For instance, if I told you that, in 3s, I can hit confirm on frame of contact with no sound turned on, AND I can also hit confirm with my eyes CLOSED and the sound ON, then what I'm telling you is that my execution is based on both, not just one. Execution is all-inclusive, and also dependant(and variant) based on the combo you want to do. For instance, in SFA2 with Ken, J.mk > c.mk xx super is really easy... in SFA3 the timing between the j.mk > c.mk is tighter and more difficult to do, so the combo's execution actually changed from game to game.

This has been my point on using a stick though. If you're having a problem executing on a pad, where you find double fireball motions difficult, then using a stick will only serve to improve not only execution(as a by-product, actually) but also to increase your overall knowledge of the game, frame cancelling, timing, proper(non-gimmicky) execution, etc. This is because the stick itself is a little more stringent in terms of execution and it's requirements... you HAVE to be better, so therefore if you push yourself you WILL get better. I'm not making this stick vs. pad... what I'm telling you is that if you choose pad, then you have to give us specific examples of what combos and moves you want help in executing. If you choose stick, then your execution will drop off for a bit, but when you figure it out, when it clicks, then those problems on pad will virtually disappear because your overall knowledge of the game and when to link/cancel/hit confirm will be better overall.

Also, for SF4, turn off single button Focus... even if you can use pads in tournaments, most tournaments won't allow single button FA's... you'll have to do them manually but they will allow 3x punch and 3x kick.

Now, except for SF4, what combos do you need help with?

 

[Tim Static]

I understand the stick is better between the two. Trust me, I am the one who always has said that. It's just not better for me. If I am having the same problems on both a controller and an arcade stick, but I do much better and I am more comfortable on a controller, it would be illogical to use an arcade stick.

As far as which I am better with, it really comes down to the analog vs the joy stick for me. Though, that has little to do with combo execution. As you said Phil, I am a lot quicker with the analog using my thumb, than using my wrist. Also as Check said, on the left side I can't do anything really. Not to sound arrogant, but nothing game related takes me this long to become adpated to it. There's really no need for me to use a stick. If all tournaments were only on arcades there would be, but almost all SFIV tournaments and UMK3 tournaments are on console or PC.

I really didn't want this to turn into a stick vs controller thing. I already know the differences and advantages. Telling me the stick is better and to stay with it isn't helping, because I'm not going to do that.

But A. you used a shitty stick and B. you honestly havent used it enough to even say that. Its not something your going to learn or pick up from a couple weeks and here there, etc. If you know its better, than dedicate yourself. Its that simple.

also, if your still having excution issues with the pad, then why use it?

 

[9.95]

Also, in fairness... if a person has only used a "knockoff" stick(one that isn't either full Happ, Sanwa, or Seimitsu), then it would be like someone saying they will never learn on a pad because the only pad they ever had an experience with is the 360 pad instead of the PS pad.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

maybe someone can help me with sagats BnB cr.lk cr.lk cr.lp low TS FADC SRK..
for some reason the tiger shot doesnt come out when I roll the stick for down/back to forward and press cr.mk. This happens likr 3 out of 5 times

only info i can really give myself is practice.

why would you fadc the tiger shot into a tiger uppercut?

Just do cr.lk x2, cr.lp xx Tiger Uppercut, then fadc that if you want to waste meter.

 

[Juggs]

I get what y'all are saying too, but you are also misunderstanding me. I have problems with combo execution on BOTH an arcade stick and a controller. I don't use the d-pad for SF4, I use the analog, which is why I say "controller" as oppose to "pad". The analog is great, it's perfect for me. I actually don't have any problems with the controller other than combo execution, and like I've said, I have that problem on both. On an arcade stick I have a bunch of problems that I don't have on a controller, so using one would be trying to be something I'm not, which is a stick player. If all it takes is practice on a stick, it should be the same for a controller, and since I am way better with a controller, I will use and practice on it.

Other than the "you must use a stick" advice, it seems most of you just say practice. And I guess that's good advice. I rarely go to practice mode and do combo's, I guess that's not too smart, so I will start doing that more often.

@Phil, "except from SF4", I have no combo problems. The only fighters I really play are SF4 and UMK3.

And I was looking for general execution advice. If it helps to label specific combo's, I will do so.

Bison:
-c.lp -> s.lp -> c.mk -> scissors
-c.lk -> c.lk -> c.lk -> scissors
-Sometimes even: c.lp -> c.lp -> c.lk -> scissors

It's the canceling into the scissors that is the problem on all of these. I can do it, but not consistently. Sometimes the scissors doesn't come out.

Ryu:
-All of his combo's
-The only one I can do is: c.lp -> c.lp -> c.mk -> Hadouken

I guess all it takes is a lot of practice, I was just wondering if anyone had any tips, tricks or advice that would help with combo execution and execution in general.

 

[AREZ God of War]

LOL....the stick is better, stay with it

 

[Dark_Rob]

I get what y'all are saying too, but you are also misunderstanding me. I have problems with combo execution on BOTH an arcade stick and a controller. I don't use the d-pad for SF4, I use the analog, which is why I say "controller" as oppose to "pad". The analog is great, it's perfect for me. I actually don't have any problems with the controller other than combo execution, and like I've said, I have that problem on both. On an arcade stick I have a bunch of problems that I don't have on a controller, so using one would be trying to be something I'm not, which is a stick player. If all it takes is practice on a stick, it should be the same for a controller, and since I am way better with a controller, I will use and practice on it.

Other than the "you must use a stick" advice, it seems most of you just say practice. And I guess that's good advice. I rarely go to practice mode and do combo's, I guess that's not too smart, so I will start doing that more often.

@Phil, "except from SF4", I have no combo problems. The only fighters I really play are SF4 and UMK3.

And I was looking for general execution advice. If it helps to label specific combo's, I will do so.

Bison:
-c.lp -> s.lp -> c.mk -> scissors
-c.lk -> c.lk -> c.lk -> scissors
-Sometimes even: c.lp -> c.lp -> c.lk -> scissors

It's the canceling into the scissors that is the problem on all of these. I can do it, but not consistently. Sometimes the scissors doesn't come out.

Ryu:
-All of his combo's
-The only one I can do is: c.lp -> c.lp -> c.mk -> Hadouken

I guess all it takes is a lot of practice, I was just wondering if anyone had any tips, tricks or advice that would help with combo execution and execution in general.

Juggs its really all about the training room. Seriously I spend hours upon hours in there practicing the same combos over and over and over and over again. Till I can do them in my sleep. Its like a boxer training for a 12 round fight has to train 12,000 rounds to do it. I dont play Bison but I do play with Ryu. Ryu is a good character to work on combos with because damn near everything he has combos into something else. Start simple like you said: c.lp>c.lp>c.mk>Hadoken. Then work on some variations like c.lp>c.lp>c.mp>hadoken or c.lp>c.lp>c.mp>hk tatsu. Do the same thing but end it with a shoryuken to. Work on jumpin and crossup jumpins like j.hk>c.mk>hadoken.( tack tatsus and shoryukens on to the end of the same combo) . Above ALL The most important one is SRK>FADC>ULTRA! And be able to hit it off of anything. You can hit confirm a shoryuken off about damn near everything so always be looking for it. Practice hitting it off a jump kick a crossup jump kick, off c.mk. and I mean practice practice practice. Drill that shit into your head till you can do it in your sleep. Im not kidding when I say Ive probably practiced hitting FADC Ultras off of stuff 3 or 4 hundred thousand times. I LIVE in the training room....So should you.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

-c.lp -> s.lp -> c.mk -> scissors

snip

-The only one I can do is: c.lp -> c.lp -> c.mk -> Hadouken

I hope you realize how hard both of these combos are.

I would have to suggest doing the combo as slow as possible, if you do it to fast, some combos chain instead of being links, and you can't cancel off of a chain. So just take it slow.

With Bison, just do cr.lp x2, cr.lk xx Scissor Kick.

With Ryu, try cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp xx Shoryuken.


Very simple, very useful. If you want to get a little more advanced with ryu, do:

cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp xx Shoryu/Tatsu/Hadouken/link Sweep

or

cr.mp, cr. mp xx Shoryu/Tatsu/Hadouken/link Sweep



Shoryus should be combo enders if they're close to you.

Tatsus should be combo enders if they're standing and you want to take them to the corner (HK Tatsu) or knock them far away from you (LK Tatsu).

Fireballs if you want to be safe. EX Fireball is always a generally good option.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Continuing the Pad debate, I learned you can plink on pad without too much trouble except for maybe MP, and it isn't too hard to do honda's cr.lp xx Heavy hands or Blanka's cr.lp xx Heavy Electricity.

So far double tapping and gen's MK hands (which won't even be in Super) are impractical on a pad, but that's about it.

 

[CJ81]

Another important thing is to relax and not obsess about your execution so much. I notice whenever I have to focus on what I am doing on a controller (ahem, xbl) I fuck up way more than if I just relaxed and felt it out.

1. If you are messing up combos that you should have down by now, then enter practice mode and just do the combos repeatedly, and try to pretend their is pressure on you to pull it off like in a real match. If you just practice without that added stress, then when you aren't playing the way you will be in a match and you will fumble.

2. Always try to do better combos. Just like any game, the more you try, the easier the B&B shit becomes. Even if the combos aren't damaging, your fingers are learning how to use the system better so you don't have to think about it as much. btw, this is one of the reasons why people shit on online play. Your connection is never consistent. You could be doing it right and you just don't know how to adjust to lag properly with a stick (easier on a pad imo).

3. Use a wired connection

Very good advice. For example I am doing a Noob Saibot combo a friend told me about and I've been having a hell of a time connecting the EX shadow knee after b+1, 2, 1, so this morning b/c I was struggling with it so much last night I picked up the execution quicker probably from muscle memory and was able to land the EX shadow knee, I haven't been able to land the full combo of 11 hits but I've landed 7 hits a few times. I still need to practice. I guess what helps me is trying not to tense up and not thinking about it so much. My stick skills are terrible but I think I will stick (no pun intended!) with it. My sense of spacing and zoning is the same as when I use pad.

 

[Fabulocity]

Alot of these responses are elitist and esoteric. Of course practice is important. The issues is that this guy doesn't know what to practice. Your problem is execution and combos. The asshole advice is just practice until they work. That's not helping anyone. This guys wants sepcific practice regimens to help improve his execution as it relates to combos.

Far be it my place to chastise and not contribute, here's how I do it:

First off, get a stick and train to be comfortable with it. There are 17 bones in your wrist, three in your thumb. The speed, accuracy and range of motion in your wrist is far superior to anything any can ever do with a thumb. Unfortunately, since these bones and wrist movements are not something you use everyday, you will have a long hard road training the muscle memory into your wrists to even be able to pull of anything with any sort accuracy.

That aside, if you you choose not to (or are unable to acquire) a stick, do not worry! You can still practice and master your combos with a pad. How? What you do is first explore your moveset in practice mode. PLEASE DO NOT BE A YOUTUBE PLAYER! Don't go on youtube or some forum (proabably this one), see a bunch of notations and practice that. You'll never understand the context of why the combo works, or the "rhythm" of how the combo works.

Find moves that can creat an opening, for example, a luncher or stunner. Then connect a simple move off of that. So try a luncher, then dash and hit an uppercut. Easy right? Anyone can do that! Good. Now try to challenge yourself. Do the launcher, then try a quick three hit chain. A little more tougher, but after a few times, you get it. Now make it even harder, launch, to chain, then canceled into a special. Now we're doing combos!

Keep practicing in that fashion and you'll be making your own videos in no time. The key is to break down the combo into simple parts, then practice them until you can do them easily. Then add on more to it as you improve.

In closing, I do want to stress that you should never just stick to youtube or forums for combos. Those outlets are good and serve a purpose, but that purpose is more to INSPIRE you to try what someone else has found. More of an "Oh, I didn't know (X) move can lead to (Y) move. I should try to incorporate that!" The best way to learn how to combo is, and always will be through exploring what the game engine will allow you to do. Then you will learn conext (why the combo works) and rhythm (the actual mechanical "how" a combo works).

Also, do yourself a favor and buy a stick. You hate me for saying that for your first few tournament losses, but in a few years when you beat me in the finals at EVO, you'll shake my hand and tell me that I made a mistake telling you to get that stick.

 

[Lady Death]

Fabulocity and Dark_Rob made fantastic points. I just wanna add a little to it:

I use a controller and I play just fine. It's preference, and it's about sticking to that preference.

As I read, "using a wired connection" is very important but you may not mean online. The most valuable advice I have seen on this thread is practice and the training room, and it seems you got that down, Juggs. It doesn't matter WHAT you use. I have a friend that's is wicked on a pad for SSF4. You obviously tried the stick as well and still prefer a controller, that's great. It's just about practice. A stick doesn't make the player no matter how great the damn buttons are. PREFERENCE, EASE, and PRACTICE with whatever is used make the player.

 

[EvilNonsense]

What days/time are you on, Juggernaut? If you want a sparring partner, I'll be glad to help.

 

[evansgambit]

I started playing SFIV again recently and realized one of my big problems, execution. I've had this problem in SFIV since the beginning. I switched to a stick for about 6 months, and I still was messing up my execution. I recently went back to a controller, and noticed I am doing a lot better with it. Though even still, I am messing up my execution.

Is there any tips you guys have to help? Remember, don't say get a stick, I have one and suck worse with it. Any advice would be appreciated. I know I should go to SRK for this, but those guys over there have ego's that put MKU's ego's to shame. Don't feel like dealing with that shit.

Just to clarify, we're referring to MK here, execution in SF4 is in my opinion completely different and some what harder, being more timing based.

Firstly, assess what your execution problem is?
- Is it side dependence? Like you execute better on the player 1 side
- Is it certain moves like D, F or B, B, F?
- Is it reaction time?
- Is it the long combos?

OK just read down a bit and saw that your problem was, combo execution.

The straight up answer is to TRAIN and then PRACTICE
- Familarise yourself with the combo you need to execute, write it down in a way you best understand, use your own shortcut notation.
- Plan its execution in advance so you know whether you need to pre-charge, buffer or negative edge, and the timings for the juggles. Research a bit as you'll be surprised at how there are many ways to do things.
- Break down your combo into smaller manageable combos, and then build up slowly so that it becomes second nature. Eg. Pressing throw, immediately after a jump kick to do scorpions jump kick, throw. In this way, you'll always think of the two seperate moves as ONE MOVE. Practice each portion of the combo seperately if possible.
- Slowly add in more and more hits as you feel comfortable. Best to always record your practice, so you know where you mess up. Pay attention to your inputs on the screen.
- Do not panic and DO NOT MASH, you can't rely on luck if you want great execution. Each input should be as precise as possible. Again use the onscreen input to help you.

After you get it down once, keep practicing in training mode. Yes, its time consuming.

@Everyone: Stick beats pad. Period. Whether or not you can win comes down to your abilities to handle each of them. People winning with pad doesn't change anything. The better player will always win. I don't like it when people confuse "preference" with "better" But I must say MK is more pad/keyboard friendly than SF is.

 

[Fabulocity]

I'd like to second Evansgambit on the not mashing or panicking. Slow down your inputs and learn to tap out each button accurately and you'll see instant results once you get the timing down.

For referrence, it's tap.... tap.... tap.... and NOT taptaptaptaptaptap! If the combo string has only three inputs, you shouldn't here fifty button pressed.

MK is very forgiving with timing. It's not as strict as SF or Tekken. However, the timing is closer to Tekken that SF. I've found that as long as I just tap the buttons on my stick in the correct order, the strings come out regardless of my timing so long as I'm not too slow. I add the two-in-ones immediately after. It's almost as if I type out the combo, then watch it performed on screen when I'm done. It does take a while to get used to. Think of strings as less like a series of normal moves strung together, and more like a special move you dial in instead of wiggling a stick to get.