General/Other - Cryomancer How to Improve Cryomancer

[JustPressingButtons]

@Phosferrax don't bother discussing string utility with that maniac. I've seen his Quan Chi on stream, not only does he end blockstrings with regular rune, he acts like its still his turn.

Online lets people get away with anything. RIP.

 

[Phosferrax]

This is an example of someone overlooking or simply refusing to acknowledge the answers to their own problems with the character.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Cryomancer just needs a few changes to become viable in my opinion. First I'll outline his problems and then offer my solutions.

His Problems

1. He's very meter dependent but has no good way of BUILDING METER.
2. HE HAS NO GAMEPLAN OTHER THAN TRYING TO LAND A 50/50, WHICH IS BAD BECAUSE HIS NORMAL OVERHEAD IS BOTH REACTABLE AND UNSAFE.
3. His EX hammer can be jumped over, back dashed, blocked and/or armored through easily on reaction after any of his strings on block.
4. HE HAS NO FAST LONG RANGED POKES FOR HIS PLAYSTYLE.

Solutions
1. Make the regular ice ball connect after b33 on all characters midscreen.
1/2. Give him a MID HITTING projectile in the form of a throwable ice knife like the one he uses in his Cold Blooded string. It should have less recovery and faster start up than ice ball. This way he'll get a meter building tool and have another offensive ability than just rushdown 50/50s.
3. EX hammer should have 18 start up frames instead of 28. This will make it more useful as a MIXUPtool, a better counter poking tool, and it shouldn't be possible to be jumped over after any block string.
4. EXTEND the range of his d1 with an ice knife similar to Kitana's d1 change. Make it 7 frames instead of 9. (I edited out the hit advantage change, I didn't know pokes don't combo lol my bad.)

Univeral Sub Zero Nerfs

Sub Zero only needs 2 NERFS in all his variations including Cryomancer.
1. Slightly nerf his J1 and J2 so they can be anti aired without the use of armor.
2. B2 should do 7% damage instead of 9% damage. He just does a bit too much damage off it in my opinion. Also, this way it will no longer be optimal to use in combos after a freeze instead of his regular launching strings.

Let me know if you guys agree or disagree.

I could've highlighted SO MUCH more but I'm too lazy to do that.

 

[Goat-City]

@Phosferrax don't bother discussing string utility with that maniac. I've seen his Quan Chi on stream, not only does he end blockstrings with regular rune, he acts like its still his turn.

If you're referring to the set against zoofs I already told him I was playing on auto pilot after not playing at all for weeks. And if they expect me to EX the rune then it can be my turn if they hesitate.

 

[THTB]

Dude, he's the same guy who thinks pokes should combo into specials. Like Wat.

Educate him then move on lol.

 

[boba_buster]

Dude, he's the same guy who thinks pokes should combo into specials. Like Wat.

Lmao

 

[boba_buster]

This is almost kencheese lvl

 

[JustPressingButtons]

If you're referring to the set against zoofs I already told him I was playing on auto pilot after not playing at all for weeks. And if they expect me to EX the rune then it can be my turn if they hesitate.

You do know that doesn't come anywhere close to working in an offline environment? You'd get punished 100% of the time free.

So not only you don't know how the game mechanics work, you don't even know how to play on a competent level.

 

[Goat-City]

You do know that doesn't come anywhere close to working in an offline environment? You'd get punished 100% of the time free.

So not only you don't know how the game mechanics work, you don't even know how to play on a competent level.

I have no one to play offline, so I wouldn't know. I just play the game. Ask zoofs or eldriken or murk if I can play the game on a competent level. I've beaten them all at least once. I didn't know if pokes combo'd or not, I was just using common sense. It's not like I ever played as if pokes combo'd. I just thought if a poke gives 20 plus frames then it would combo with a 20 frame move. That's irrelevant to the logic behind my ideas anyways, so why bring it up?

 

[Phosferrax]

@Goat-City please respond to my initial comment.

 

[Goat-City]

@Goat-City please respond to my initial comment.

I was getting to it, gotta deal with the keyboard warriors first

1. He's not particularly meter dependent. He has a good meterless punish with f4/111/b12 iceball, and 7-frame jab and a great back dash as his defensive options aside from armour.

2. His OH is barely reactable, and his low is not. He has a gameplan of whiff punishing and 50/50 rush down, and if you don't want that type of playstyle then play someone else, instead of claiming it as a weakness.

3. Then don't do it on block. Hit confirm your strings.

4. F42, d4....

1. He needs meter for his major damage on top of everything else he needs it for like wake ups and breakers.
2. Having nothing but 50/50s as an offense is a weakness especially if they're any combination of reactable or unsafe. Punishing is fine but it's not enough to be tournament viable.
3. Then that's a weakness if it can't be used on block for anything.
4. 12 frames and 9 frames.

 

[Goat-City]

Explain how he's not

Check the top of page 3

 

[boba_buster]

Check the top of page 3

That's bs

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

That's bs

Dude stop feeding that idiot...He clearly knows he can't prove mine or your or anyone's points wrong so he is either going to say the stuff he's ben saying since the thread started and won't reply to those because he knows he'll embarrass himself

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

I'm still waiting for your reply on my comment @Goat-City

 

[Goat-City]

I'm still waiting for your reply on my comment @Goat-City

Already did, it was a straw man fallacy. Ignored.

 

[RM Ree]

This is almost kencheese lvl

We don't speak his name... He is legend.

Also, I know in mirrors, both hammer and ex crushing hammer arm punished with reversal slide. Hammer on block does seem similar to Sub's b2 though.

 

[boba_buster]

Praise kencheese

 

[Phosferrax]

I was getting to it, gotta deal with the keyboard warriors first
1. He needs meter for his major damage on top of everything else he needs it for like wake ups and breakers.
2. Having nothing but 50/50s as an offense is a weakness especially if they're any combination of reactable or unsafe. Punishing is fine but it's not enough to be tournament viable.
3. Then that's a weakness if it can't be used on block for anything.
4. 12 frames and 9 frames.

There is no point. If you are going to blindly refuse the answers when they are there in front of you.

He needs it for breakers and wake ups? Like EVERYBODY else? Goro is meter dependant, Shinnok is meter dependant. Sub Zero is not meter dependant.

A 9 frame poke that low profiles and gives great advantage and has great range? And f42 that covers huge range and is practically safe? What more do you want man? Those are among the best footsie tools in the game, especially when coupled with his great run speed.

 

[RM Ree]

There is no point. If you are going to blindly refuse the answers when they are there in front of you.

He needs it for breakers and wake ups? Like EVERYBODY else? Goro is meter dependant, Shinnok is meter dependant. Sub Zero is not meter dependant.

A 9 frame poke that low profiles and gives great advantage and has great range? And f42 that covers huge range and is practically safe? What more do you want man? Those are among the best footsie tools in the game, especially when coupled with his great run speed.

Good Cryo play is very meter aware, not necessarily "dependent." 2 bars for breaker to avoid eating a 30% combo? Or 2 bars for 2 40% combos of your own? I feel like breaking almost always a bad decision for this character. Beyond that, I feel like burning meter when you suspect your opponent will break is a mistake as well.

Meter management is the issue more than his meter building. Having said that, there are some characters who's meter gain is out of control. I think they're skewing our view of meter dependency since they're top tier.

 

[Goat-City]

There is no point. If you are going to blindly refuse the answers when they are there in front of you.

He needs it for breakers and wake ups? Like EVERYBODY else? Goro is meter dependant, Shinnok is meter dependant. Sub Zero is not meter dependant.

A 9 frame poke that low profiles and gives great advantage and has great range? And f42 that covers huge range and is practically safe? What more do you want man? Those are among the best footsie tools in the game, especially when coupled with his great run speed.

Just like you blindly refused to acknowledge the fact that I said on TOP of his damage. The fact that he needs that meter to get the damage that would make him pretty good but has no good way of gaining meter is a problem. If one of a variation's perks is damage, and you need meter for that damage, but have no way of gaining enough of it, then unless the character is great already to compensate, he'll need a buff to help him with that. Lol how do you blatantly ignore the very first part of the sentence?

I didn't say they were bad, I just said it would be good if he had a fast, long range d1. This isn't even important, but a 7 frame long range poke would be good for him. The main things are b33 connecting with ice ball, getting a fast mid hitting projectile, and speeding up the EX hammer to be 18-20 frames.

 

[boba_buster]

Speeding up ex hammer will ruin it
The speed is perfect
Maybe make non metered as fast as ex

 

[Metzos]

He isn't bad, but their are universal changes the character does need.

112, 0 on block, with pushback.
B334, -8 on block.
114, -6 on block, HKD.
F4 needs to have recovery shaved off, remain -3.

Cryomancer needs independent NJP and J2 sword animations like every other weapon character in the game, bar Tanya.
Cryo D2 made 10 frames.

He is ok as a character, doesn't really fit the current meta, but he at least has damage.

Unbreakable is a whole other disaster...

If his uppercut in Cryo is to have 10f startup, then it needs to be a high, cause currently it hits mid. Having a 10f mid hitting uppercut is fucked up, even for MKX.

Glue, plz, F4 is fine as it is.

 

[Deadlywolf]

Hey guys I'm here to back up Goat-City.

I think you should be able to combo d+4 into iceball.
iceball should be safe on block, and it should be a mid. It should also do like 10% damage and do a lot of chip damage.
Reason why I think you should combo off d+4 is because in Street Fighter Ryu can do c. mk into fireball. I think it would make perfect sense that Sub-Zero can do something similar as well.

His d+2 should be air invulnerable and freeze the opponent. Ken in Street Fighter has a dragon uppercut that sets people on fire. It makes perfect sense for Sub-Zero's d+2 to freeze the opponent.

Sub Zero should also have a hurricane kick. Just because, that be kinda cool.

I agree with Goat-City that d+1 should be able to combo into something. In a lot of other fighting games people can combo from a down jab. Sub-Zero should have it too just because its cool.

 

[DelSchokoladenSaft]

Hey guys I'm here to back up Goat-City.

I think you should be able to combo d+4 into iceball.
iceball should be safe on block, and it should be a mid. It should also do like 10% damage and do a lot of chip damage.
Reason why I think you should combo off d+4 is because in Street Fighter Ryu can do c. mk into fireball. I think it would make perfect sense that Sub-Zero can do something similar as well.

His d+2 should be air invulnerable and freeze the opponent. Ken in Street Fighter has a dragon uppercut that sets people on fire. It makes perfect sense for Sub-Zero's d+2 to freeze the opponent.

Sub Zero should also have a hurricane kick. Just because, that be kinda cool.

I agree with Goat-City that d+1 should be able to combo into something. In a lot of other fighting games people can combo from a down jab. Sub-Zero should have it too just because its cool.

But this be Mortal Kombat, son.
If he could it, then the whole dynamics of mkx would change into sf; block button is life.