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General/Other - Cryomancer How to Improve Cryomancer

Goat-City

Banned
Cryomancer just needs a few changes to become viable in my opinion. First I'll outline his problems and then offer my solutions.

His Problems

1. He's very meter dependent but has no good way of building meter.
2. He has no game plan other than trying to land a 50/50, which is bad because his normal overhead is both reactable and unsafe. Plus it's just boring and is too reliant on luck to succeed.
3. His EX hammer can be jumped over, back dashed, blocked and/or armored through easily on reaction after any of his strings on block.
4. (Edit*) He has no fast long range pokes for his play style.

Solutions
1. Make the regular ice ball connect after b33 on all characters midscreen.
1/2. Give him a mid hitting projectile in the form of a throwable ice knife like the one he uses in his Cold Blooded string. It should have less recovery and faster start up than ice ball. This way he'll get a meter building tool and have another offensive ability than just rushdown 50/50s.
3. EX hammer should have 18 start up frames instead of 28. This will make it more useful as a mix up tool, a better counter poking tool, and it shouldn't be possible to be jumped over after any block string.
4. Extend the range of his d1 with an ice knife similar to Kitana's d1 change. Make it 7 frames instead of 9. (I edited out the hit advantage change, I didn't know pokes don't combo lol my bad.)

Univeral Sub Zero Nerfs

Sub Zero only needs 2 nerfs in all his variations including Cryomancer.
1. Slightly nerf his J1 and J2 so they can be anti aired without the use of armor.
2. B2 should do 7% damage instead of 9% damage. He just does a bit too much damage off it in my opinion. Also, this way it will no longer be optimal to use in combos after a freeze instead of his regular launching strings.

Let me know if you guys agree or disagree.
 
Last edited:

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
He isn't bad, but their are universal changes the character does need.

112, 0 on block, with pushback.
B334, -8 on block.
114, -6 on block, HKD.
F4 needs to have recovery shaved off, remain -3.

Cryomancer needs independent NJP and J2 sword animations like every other weapon character in the game, bar Tanya.
Cryo D2 made 10 frames.

He is ok as a character, doesn't really fit the current meta, but he at least has damage.

Unbreakable is a whole other disaster...
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Pokes don't combo bro

I don't think he needs mid projectile zoning in a pure rushdown variant, and the hammer is definitely not intended to be a mixup tool, that would be cray
 

Goat-City

Banned
Pokes don't combo bro

I don't think he needs mid projectile zoning in a pure rushdown variant, and the hammer is definitely not intended to be a mixup tool, that would be cray
I'm confused, is there a difference between saying something's plus and saying something has hit advantage? I thought they were the same thing. I'll just edit it then.
 

Goat-City

Banned
I don't think you understand how pokes work in this game dude. Potentially not even fundamental aspects of frame advantage.
I thought saying it should be plus 22 on hit was the same thing as saying it should have 22 frames of hit advantage. My bad.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
F4 needs to have recovery shaved off, remain -3.

.
Why would you give less recovery to a fast, good range, hit confirmable mid that either changes sides in GM or does tons of damage in cryo? If you whiff something like that then you deserve to be punished.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I thought saying it should be plus 22 on hit was the same thing as saying it should have 22 frames of hit advantage. My bad.
Well first of all, pokes are hard coded, you can't link anything from them even if they were +1 million.

Also linking given normals into specials given depends on the cancel window, not the frames on them by themselves. Otherwise Quan's B2 wouldn't link into jack shit.
 

Goat-City

Banned
He isn't bad, but their are universal changes the character does need.

112, 0 on block, with pushback.
B334, -8 on block.
114, -6 on block, HKD.
F4 needs to have recovery shaved off, remain -3.

Cryomancer needs independent NJP and J2 sword animations like every other weapon character in the game, bar Tanya.
Cryo D2 made 10 frames.

He is ok as a character, doesn't really fit the current meta, but he at least has damage.

Unbreakable is a whole other disaster...
While some of those ideas sound fine, I don't think they'd be necessary. Grandmaster definitely doesn't need anything else and the changes I listed above seem like the most logical changes for Cryomancer specifically. I doubt he'd need anything else after these.
 

Goat-City

Banned
Plz stop , b33xxiceball is the only thing he needs
Cryomancer? Absolutely not. Cryomancer is useless as it is. He's nothing but running in and applying a reactable unsafe 50/50. His hammer is completely useless as anything but a combo extender and he has no way of gaining meter. Grandmaster is better in every possible way except midscreen damage.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Yea if you think he's useless as is then no amount of buffs are going to help you play him , if you can't use him as is you prolly just suck , can't remember the last time I lost a match using cryo and said " I would have won if I had outlaw errons njp"
 

Goat-City

Banned
You already posted this ridiculous crap in that "KP2 buffs wishes" thread. Why did you make another thread about it?

You obviously don't understand what Cryomancer is, how he should play, and hell how the game works.

Stop posting.

All of this is utter crap.
I've changed my mind a bit since then and that was 1 post buried within 400, so I felt it deserved a thread itself. I'm fine with criticism, just tell me how I'm wrong.
 

zoofs

bless
can't believe I just read a post where someone suggested to nerf j2 which is actually a pretty trash air normal, ji1 can also be anti aired meterless by a majority of the cast, you just need to be more aware of the game you're playing

not even gonna start on anything else
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
I've changed my mind a bit since then and that was 1 post buried within 400, so I felt it deserved a thread itself. I'm fine with criticism, just tell me how I'm wrong.
Everything is just so much wrong I don't even know where to begin.

I mean you think D1 should combo in the first place, which means you don't understand how this game works.

I literally can't even right now.