How to escape the Kabal "infinite"

[SonicKaballs]

My problem with Kabal: No bad MU's, no weaknesses, excells in every aspect of the game.
Am I scared to fight him: Yes. ^ Thats why.
Have I tried picking him up and couldn't: No, but I have messed around with him in practice mode for probably 1 to 1 and a half hours before and got pretty damn far considering the time I put in.
Am I jealous: No. That was I redundant question. I think the fighter is ruining the game. Why would I be jealous of people who play him? Use your head. That made no sense.

I don't not respect Kabal players. For instance, I respect REO a whole lot and love hearing the guy talk and love how much he gives to the community. I admit, I do disagree with some of the things he says. But I respect him and his opinions. I just don't respect Kabal and think he should be fixed because he is killing the game.

1.: I do accept he is good. But unlike a lot of people, especially you Kabal players, I also accept he is much too good and is breaking the game single handedly. Why can't you fucking accept that?

2.: I accept Rax, I accept Jax's corner gimmick, I accept Smokes reset. Id on't accept Kabal.

"If Kabal weren't in the game, this game wouldnt be dying. People are forced to use Kabal in tournaments now because the only fighter that can stand up to Kabal on a remotly consistant bases IS KABAL. We wouldnt be complaining about Sonya, because unlike Kabal, she does have weaknesses and bad MU's. So does everyone else in S tier. Kabal is the only fighter in the entire game without a single bad MU or a single weakness. He builds meter 2x faster than any fighter in the entire game, and is arguably the best rushdown and best zoner in the entire game, all in one fighter. This is why I think something should be done about him, or else this game will die because everyone will just be using Kabal. There have been multiple other fighting games that have died for this very reson as well, yet we should just sit here and not do anything about it?"

That is why.

3.: I never said I wanted to be the underdog. And when I am, I do accept it. I just don't accept Kabal.
4.: Again. I accept it all. Just not Kabal, and I already stated why.

5.: I wish he would get patched/banned. And if you still use Kabal afterwards and win, cool. But winning with him now means very little.

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REO

If your okay with a game being ruled by a single fighter, thats your opinion. I disagree. I think it is killing the game. If your okay with this game turning into MK3, thats your opinion. And I disagree.

OMG!!! Please drop this game and go to fucking UMVC3 and get dumped on by all the Wesker, Spencer and Zero players. Or go on SSF4 and get bodied by the Akuma's. Dude, Kabal is not ruining the game. Stop making these exaggerated and false assumptions because Kabal, if anything, was "ruining the game" with the F32 NDC infinite. You think you can get his practice mode execution down and be some god with him? Wow you can do every cancel to the frame, go rape someone in a match then. Get his combos down. Get his iAGB's down. I've never seen a characters combos dropped more than Kabal. Part of what makes REO so different from the other Kabal's is his consistency with both cancels, reads, and most importantly, high damaging Kabal combos. Not only does a failed Kabal combo cut your damage short, but also stop and pressure from the reset and now have to deal with the opponents wakeup.

 

[RampaginDragon]

OMG!!! Please drop this game and go to fucking UMVC3 and get dumped on by all the Wesker, Spencer and Zero players. Or go on SSF4 and get bodied by the Akuma's. Dude, Kabal is not ruining the game. Stop making these exaggerated and false assumptions because Kabal, if anything, was "ruining the game" more-so with the F32 NDC infinite.

I might actually take this post serious if you had addressed a single thing in the post you quoted. You mearly quoted, then mindlessly/senselessly ranted. Are you angry because I am right? If not, please actually make a pertenent statement about why you think I am wrong about what you think I am wrong about, then we can debate this like human beings with brains.

 

[SonicKaballs]

I might actually take this post serious if you had addressed a single thing in the post you quoted. You mearly quoted, then mindlessly/senselessly ranted. Are you angry because I am right? If not, please actually make a pertenent statement about why you think I am wrong about what you think I am wrong about, then we can debate this like human beings with brains.

You think a character is ruining a game because hes good but yet its the same situation in BETTER and MORE POPULAR fighters. What aren't you understanding?

 

[RampaginDragon]

You think a character is ruining a game because hes good but yet its the same situation in BETTER and MORE POPULAR fighters. What aren't you understanding?

Can you tell me what other fighter in what other game is absolutly superior to every single other fighter in the game? A fighter with 0 weaknesses, 0 bad MU's, and is better than any other fighter in the game in any given situation? And if there are other fighters with this problem, then I would be arguing the same point in that forum about that game.

 

[SunnyD]

Can you tell me what other fighter in what other game is absolutly superior to every single other fighter in the game? A fighter with 0 weaknesses, 0 bad MU's, and is better than any other fighter in the game in any given situation? And if there are other fighters with this problem, then I would be arguing the same point in that forum about that game.

I think thats the case with Akuma in every Street Fighter made. I wouldnt know for certain though, never really got into SF.

 

[RampaginDragon]

I think thats the case with Akuma in every Street Fighter made. I wouldnt know for certain though, never really got into SF.

Same. Its so hard to get into another fighting game. I wish I could play them all.

 

[RTM2004]

I disagree about Sonya. IMO Kenshi is the next best. And Sonya loses to Kabal, Kenshi and Freddy, and can have trouble with a couple other fighters as well. Of course she has the tools to overcome her bad MU's. So do many other fighters in the game, but that dosnt change the fact that its still much harder and your still more likely to lose.

Sonya doesn't lose to Kenshi and Freddy, she loses only to Kabal. One that knows how to play the MU specifically, bypass zoning, using the right reads she can beat Kenshi and Freddy. Whatever you're doing in those MUs, you are playing her wrong. Against Kabal, she doesn't have the liberty to do whatever the f*** she wants in that MU because Kabal iAGB/Saws control her at full screen and she has to deal with NDC and his armored Ex Nomad Dash which functions the same as her Ex Cartwheel. If she gets lucky she gets in once, Kabal always has Breaker available to escape her easy.

I would place Kenshi as the third best right after Kabal and Sonya. He just has several MUs that take him out of his comfort zone where he prefers to sit full screen, he forced to get in and his walk speed isn't exactly the best. Sonya on the other hand is fast, very mobile, gets in eventually even if her opponent tries to zone her or sometimes reversed she can play catch.

1.) Kabal - iAGB, Ground Saws, NDC pressure, Ex Dash armor combo launcher, 50/50 mix ups excels up close and zoning.
2.) Sonya - Dive Kick, D4, Military Stance, mobility, armored Ex Cartwheel combo launcher, best normals up close
3.) Kenshi - Overloaded armored moves for zoning control, Spirit Charge, safe strings, Reflect projectiles, footsies space control

The undisputed Top 3 in the game, Kabal banned would mean Sonya/Kenshi hate chain reaction. Kabal is NOT the only problem in this game, there are other broken/cheap/OP characters like Cyrax, Smoke, Jax, Freddy etc

 

[RampaginDragon]

RTM2004 "Sonya doesn't lose to Kenshi and Freddy, she loses only to Kabal. One that knows how to play the MU specifically, bypass zoning, using the right reads she can beat Kenshi and Freddy. Whatever you're doing in those MUs, you are playing her wrong. Against Kabal, she doesn't have the liberty to do whatever the f*** she wants in that MU because Kabal iAGB/Saws control her at full screen and she has to deal with NDC and his armored Ex Nomad Dash which functions the same as her Ex Cartwheel. If she gets lucky she gets in once, Kabal always has Breaker available to escape her easy." Have you ever played a good Kenshi or Freddy? Trust me, those are bad MU's. Kenshi is probably a 7-3, Freddy 6-4, Kabal 6-4. If you disagree at this point it has to be your opinion. For you to say Kenshi is not a bad MU for Sonya is just out of my mind. That is her worst MU. At least in my opinion and other Sonya and Kenshi players I talk to.

"I would place Kenshi as the third best right after Kabal and Sonya. He just has several MUs that take him out of his comfort zone where he prefers to sit full screen, he forced to get in and his walk speed isn't exactly the best. Sonya on the other hand is fast, very mobile, gets in eventually even if her opponent tries to zone her or sometimes reversed she can play catch." Kenshi vs. Sonya is still a blood bath. I agree with what you said here. I don't think Kenshi is better than Sonya, or Sonya is better than Kenshi.

1.) Kabal - iAGB, Ground Saws, NDC pressure, Ex Dash armor combo launcher, 50/50 mix ups excels up close and zoning.
2.) Sonya - Dive Kick, D4, Military Stance, mobility, armored Ex Cartwheel combo launcher, best normals up close
3.) Kenshi - Overloaded armored moves for zoning control, Spirit Charge, safe strings, Reflect projectiles, footsies space control

"The undisputed Top 3 in the game, Kabal banned would mean Sonya/Kenshi hate chain reaction. Kabal is NOT the only problem in this game, there are other broken/cheap/OP characters like Cyrax, Smoke, Jax, Freddy etc." Yes, we would still complain, but those fighters pale in comparison to Kabal. Sonya and Kenshi have bad MU's and weaknesses, Kabal dosnt. That s why we wouldnt complain about Sonya and Kenshi not having bad MU's, because they do. We dont have to have a fighter to hate just because we are picking on Kabal.Without him, we wouldnt complain about fighters having no bad MU's or having no weaknesses, because he is the only one.

 

[circle masher]

I think thats the case with Akuma in every Street Fighter made. I wouldnt know for certain though, never really got into SF.

ST Akuma is the only version to have ever been banned as far as I know. 3S Akuma is mid-tier. Can't speak for SF4/SFxT/CvS2/A3/etc.

 

[Dracula_X]

ST Akuma is the only version to have ever been banned as far as I know. 3S Akuma is mid-tier. Can't speak for SF4/SFxT/CvS2/A3/etc.

He was banned in ST and some places banned him in 2nd impact for no apparent reason besides being a secret character. In alpha 3 he was about the best character in the game in v-ism.

Anyway back to MK all this kabal hate is the same as it was 15 years ago in the arcades lol. Though people complained about run jabs more in general iirc. i dunno i played Kung Lao and tried to spin people to death back in the day.

 

[KamikazeJD]

who is reo?

 

[miloPKL]

LOL! Just take the hit! It's that simple! Not even any risks!

edit: RampaginDragon you should go back to Pokemon bro

 

[REO]

Hasnt there only been 2 MLG events? Winter and the one where grand finals was CDjr and Detroit? Forgot the name. Now if your refering to all majors, then maybe your right, I havnt looked into that, but it still dosnt change anything. I should rephrase that. Its getting to the point to where its going to be the only way to have a sure fire chance at getting into the money. That is why all the top players are picking him up.

If a 100% pure Kabal players wins the next three MLGs and EVO, then we're in trouble. For now, you're a little too paranoid.

 

[RampaginDragon]

If a 100% pure Kabal players wins the next three MLGs and EVO, then we're in trouble. For now, you're a little too paranoid.

Maybe I am.ut all I see comming in the near future is nothing Kabal wins. Maybe not 100% use of him throughout the entire tournament, but close I'd say. I also see him winning the upcomming ones.

And to everyone else, I am still open for any reasons as to why Kabal dosn't need fixed. Did 2 entire pages get ersased from the thread? Dufuq?

 

[RampaginDragon]

"If Kabal weren't in the game, this game wouldnt be dying. People are forced to use Kabal in tournaments now because the only fighter that can stand up to Kabal on a remotly consistant bases IS KABAL. We wouldnt be complaining about Sonya, because unlike Kabal, she does have weaknesses and bad MU's. So does everyone else in S tier. Kabal is the only fighter in the entire game without a single bad MU or a single weakness. He builds meter 2x faster than any fighter in the entire game, and is arguably the best rushdown and best zoner in the entire game, all in one fighter. This is why I think something should be done about him, or else this game will die because everyone will just be using Kabal. There have been multiple other fighting games that have died for this very reson as well, yet we should just sit here and not do anything about it?"
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There wouldn't be another single character dominating MUs across the entire board, because there isn't one, the other two best characters are Kenshi and Sonya but they do in fact have bad MUs. No character should have 6-4's and above on the entire cast, that's moronic. 10-0 on large hitbox characters as well essentially.

Kabal will kill the diversity in the game if NRS doesn't patch him. CD Jr's picking him up specifically to compete with Kabal and I don't blame him. I forsee a lot of Kabal vs Kabal in the future and as we all know Tekken 6 at EVO with Bob vs Bob killed the game. It's in the competitive players best interest to play diverse characters due to the fact that nobody wants to see Kabal vs Kabal, that in turn is going to get MK kicked off MLG pretty damn quickly with no views.

Despite the fact that everyone thinks I'm bitching about the character, ultimately I'm not, I don't travel across the country to play this game competitively but I do enjoy the fact that there's been diversity in this game. We've seen most of the cast in top 8-16 but everyone's starting to pick up Kabal to deal with Kabal since he is indeed in a tier of his own. Without people interested in the game and without people watching the streams this game will die; Kabal will cause that swift death. I'm an outsider in all of this, I'm not trying to get that paper, but for the guys who are...you should listen to this because it is indeed going to effect you. You all know how MLG operates, Esports without the fans will not get you paid.
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Oh I am, greatly. I just don't know what to say to this argument anymore.
This isn't just a matter of the metagame. Great players will always find a way to win.
It's the difference between what's gonna keep this game alive after EVO and what could potentially permamently stagnate it.

It's been over a year now, and there has yet to be found a single, solid, sure-fire way to beat Kabal.
Everyone else has a weakness. Everyone.
Kenshi's big and has holes in his zoning. Jax has to corner you to really destroy you. Sonya's weak from a distance. As is Cage. Raiden's slow. Lao's too risky. Sektor can only do so much if you're blocking low without risking punishment. Skarlet's zoning isn't high in damage anymore and she's very meter-dependant. As is Quan. Etcetera.
Kabal has none of these problems. In fact, he excels in just about every department these aforementioned characters fail in.

And yet people are going to continue to claim this isn't a problem .

This isn't old Lao where the promise of the final patch kept people on board until it was fixed, there's a pretty good chance this isn't gonna change, and apparently the "Cant beat 'em, join 'em" philosophy is the only way to deal with it. When tip of the top, best of the best players have to abandon the characters and strategies that have been getting them where they are since the start because they know there's no other way around it, that to me seems like a big deal.
The few diehard traveling regulars the scene has are gonna keep doing what they do regardless, and you can't fault them for that, but I personally am really not looking forward to the day MK becomes, as Piggy put it, Kabal Kombat.

No, I'm not a top player, and I'm never gonna be, but neither are a lot of the players and dedicated fans and followers who are worried and pissed off about this. And if I had the time or the money to do so, you better believe I'd be at every fucking show Greyhound had the bus routes to take me to, because I love this game and this scene to pieces, which is the only reason why this concerns me so much. It sucks. It plain outright sucks that after all this time, after all this work, as much progress as has been made in spite of the terrible odds for success MK was said to have had, that the Christmas Ghost Of Broken Bullshit has to come forth and haunt this game yet again. But as popular opinion implies, that's competition...I guess. Do whatever one has to do to win with the tools its makers gives you, no matter what kind of damage it can do. Don't blame the players, blame the builders.
For me, as long as Mr. Mil is still repping the women of Edenia, Slips is still slinging spears, Kizzle's still shooting missles, and there are still a few remaining warrior souls out there unwilling to abandon their weapons of choice just to more easily deal with this shit, at least there'll still be hope.
But it's gonna be a crying fuckin' shame to see such a diverse array of players, characters, matches and possibilities this game has and has given us over its progression, all widdled down to who can shoot off iAGBs and NDC's the fastest.
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Can anyone give me a logical reason as to why these posts are incorrect? How can you read these and still sit and say Kabal is fine how he is in tournament play?​

 

[Lulzlou]

RampaginDragon
No disrespect but I don't see why you are going out of your way to talk about Kabal like that. People say Kabal is fine because its their opinion, which is most of the communities opinion. Its either they want the challenge, they accept Kabal is beyond good and deal with it, or they are used to Kabal being top since umk3.

They are doing something that you aren't doing, which is dealing with it. You don't have to like it but what is complaining or bashing going to do? Unless it makes you feel better about the characters you use, I really don't see the point. I'm trying to help you out, you are wasting your time. Move on and deal with it. Don't play Kabals in casuals and if you run into him in a tournament, good luck to you sir.

 

[RampaginDragon]

RampaginDragon
No disrespect but I don't see why you are going out of your way to talk about Kabal like that. People say Kabal is fine because its their opinion, which is most of the communities opinion. Its either they want the challenge, they accept Kabal is beyond good and deal with it, or they are used to Kabal being top since umk3.

They are doing something that you aren't doing, which is dealing with it. You don't have to like it but what is complaining or bashing going to do? Unless it makes you feel better about the characters you use, I really don't see the point. I'm trying to help you out, you are wasting your time. Move on and deal with it. Don't play Kabals in casuals and if you run into him in a tournament, good luck to you sir.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. It was refreshing.<---- Not a troll.

I understand that at this point. But why is everyone just taking it? The facts are right there! Yet people are still disagreing with them. I don't get worked up about really a damn thing in this entire community. There are 2 things and 2 only that piss me off in the entire community. And that is Altaire, and people accepting Kabal even though the hard facts are saying he dosn't need to be. It like everyone is just ok with the game going in a colission course with the ground.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

PLEASE tell me no one thinks this video is good advice.

 

[circle masher]

Thanks for the thoughtful post. It was refreshing.<---- Not a troll.

I understand that at this point. But why is everyone just taking it? The facts are right there! Yet people are still disagreing with them. I don't get worked up about really a damn thing in this entire community. There are 2 things and 2 only that piss me off in the entire community. And that is Altaire, and people accepting Kabal even though the hard facts are saying he dosn't need to be. It like everyone is just ok with the game going in a colission course with the ground.

People aren't "just taking it", they're exploring the game from multiple angles. There is a whole spectrum of players that are trying to play MK9 competitively at the moment, and you can give them some credit by looking at them like this:

- People that use Kabal because they think he's fun/cool/whatever;
- People that use Kabal because they think they should use him to 'keep up' with the other Kabals;
- People that use another character because they think that character is fun/cool/whatever and will stick with them;
- People that use another character because they are trying to demonstrate that a particular character has undiscovered strengths/Kabal has undiscovered weaknesses;
- Probably some other people/motives I'm forgetting.

Perhaps the end result will be that this community becomes Kabalopolis, but I think you're jumping the gun whatever the case is. To ban Kabal you'll need to build a much stronger case against him than 'has no bad match-ups'* and 'wins lots of tournaments'**. Banning a character is a drastic move done for the sake of keeping a game fun and competitive, and whilst you may not like Kabal or whatever, the fact that he is *really good* simply does not qualify him as ban-worthy.

* Not the same thing as 'no characters are competitive with him', which it seems many are even if it's rougher in varying degrees on those characters than Kabal.

** It is disingenuous to think that because Kabal wins lots of tournaments and will probably win many tournaments in the future that this is automatically evidence that he is ban-worthy.

 

[G4S KT]

REO , are you satisfied yet?

 

[RampaginDragon]

People aren't "just taking it", they're exploring the game from multiple angles. There is a whole spectrum of players that are trying to play MK9 competitively at the moment, and you can give them some credit by looking at them like this:

- People that use Kabal because they think he's fun/cool/whatever;
- People that use Kabal because they think they should use him to 'keep up' with the other Kabals;
- People that use another character because they think that character is fun/cool/whatever and will stick with them;
- People that use another character because they are trying to demonstrate that a particular character has undiscovered strengths/Kabal has undiscovered weaknesses;
- Probably some other people/motives I'm forgetting.

Perhaps the end result will be that this community becomes Kabalopolis, but I think you're jumping the gun whatever the case is. To ban Kabal you'll need to build a much stronger case against him than 'has no bad match-ups'* and 'wins lots of tournaments'**. Banning a character is a drastic move done for the sake of keeping a game fun and competitive, and whilst you may not like Kabal or whatever, the fact that he is *really good* simply does not qualify him as ban-worthy.

* Not the same thing as 'no characters are competitive with him', which it seems many are even if it's rougher in varying degrees on those characters than Kabal.

** It is disingenuous to think that because Kabal wins lots of tournaments and will probably win many tournaments in the future that this is automatically evidence that he is ban-worthy.

Kabal: Only fighter in the game with NO bad MU's.
Only fighter in the game that has no weaknesses.
Has won 2x + more tournaments than any other fighter in the game.
Will ultimatly ruin the game for reasons I have mentioned many times above.
Arguably the best rushdown AND zoner in the entire game all at once.
Block infinite. Even though it is partially escapable, its still a fuck'n block infinite.
30-40% combos that lead into a reset situation that is better than Sonya's.

This fighter is more than just "really good". He is a good notch or two above the rest of the cast.

I don't think we should just sit by and wait and see if it does turn into Kabal Kombat. That is why it may seem I may be jumping the gun a bit. But as I see it, all the reasons above are more than enough for a patch or ban until patched.

And guys. Please understand I am not "crying for nerfs and bans" or "bitching about Kabal" because I don't have some grudge against the fighter. I just simply don't want to see the game turn into Kabal Kombat and watch him ruin the game while some of you just sit back and disagree with no reasoning behind it. Why do you all just agree with top players opinions without even considering your own? I would bet my ass if REO, and Tom Brady came out and said they think Kabal is fucked and needs banned until patched, you would all hop on that wagon like it was your job. All while leaving your own opinions and concerns out of the equation.

 

[FatalTragedy]

Kabal needs fixed? Nobody was bitching about Kabal when Reptile's elbow dash, Kung Lao's spin and Raiden's teleport were all "unpunishable". Let's leave Kabal, bring back pre-patch Reptile, Kung Lao and Raiden and we'll have a complete S+++ Tier and subsequently a versatile cast of tournament finals performers and a game that will apparently be played long after we've all evolved a second dick and gills.

 

[circle masher]

Why do you all just agree with top players opinions without even considering your own? I would bet my ass if REO, and Tom Brady came out and said they think Kabal is fucked and needs banned until patched, you would all hop on that wagon like it was your job. All while leaving your own opinions and concerns out of the equation.

You are the biggest and most condescending drama fairy I've seen on this forum. Give it a rest. That list you supplied does NOT currently make Kabal ban-worthy.

As an aside, is MK9 your first fighting game?

 

[SonicKaballs]

Kabal: Only fighter in the game with NO bad MU's.
Only fighter in the game that has no weaknesses.
Has won 2x + more tournaments than any other fighter in the game.
Will ultimatly ruin the game for reasons I have mentioned many times above.
Arguably the best rushdown AND zoner in the entire game all at once.
Block infinite. Even though it is partially escapable, its still a fuck'n block infinite.
30-40% combos that lead into a reset situation that is better than Sonya's.

This fighter is more than just "really good". He is a good notch or two above the rest of the cast.

I don't think we should just sit by and wait and see if it does turn into Kabal Kombat. That is why it may seem I may be jumping the gun a bit. But as I see it, all the reasons above are more than enough for a patch or ban until patched.

And guys. Please understand I am not "crying for nerfs and bans" or "bitching about Kabal" because I don't have some grudge against the fighter. I just simply don't want to see the game turn into Kabal Kombat and watch him ruin the game while some of you just sit back and disagree with no reasoning behind it. Why do you all just agree with top players opinions without even considering your own? I would bet my ass if REO, and Tom Brady came out and said they think Kabal is fucked and needs banned until patched, you would all hop on that wagon like it was your job. All while leaving your own opinions and concerns out of the equation.

You know whats worse than bandwagoning, continuing a pointless debate about stuff most of the community knows about. This game needs patches still to even consider banning anyone. Like I said before, you are giving way too much credit to the character, and not enough to the player.