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How to balance Sheeva?

If it's true that Sheeva's dragon drop hitbox really is bigger--or, more likely I think, becomes active 1 frame earlier than it used
Sheeva started hitting better way earlier than this 2f adjustment happened. That also contributed to the Ukraine Dragon Temple getting Foxy-stomped right after.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Sheeva started hitting better way earlier than this 2f adjustment happened. That also contributed to the Ukraine Dragon Temple getting Foxy-stomped right after.
I'm comparing her current in-game frame data to my personal notes on Sheeva from shortly after she was released. I can see that her drop gained an extra active frame at some point, but I can't say for certain it was added by the patch on 1/26. It's a logical guess but not the only possibility.

It's as likely an explanation as any other theories out there. It's at least something we can clearly see and document and would explain the change in how the move hits. Speculation about "stealth buffs" to her hitbox are just random, unprovable guesses.

Honestly, who cares? End of the day, seems NRS does not want people to be able to mindlessly walk out from under Sheeva's drop every time. I get that, it makes sense. But everyone should be able to dash out on reaction to the camera shift--that's the only thing any nerf to her should do. She doesn't need more recovery frames, she doesn't need to spend meter, she doesn't need her variable delay taken away... all of that is going too far and would trash the character.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
I actually hope they actually buff her stomp to the point of snapping your controller in half on a successful KB because I'm sick of people bitching about her. Like I hope she dragon drops your dog out your goddam window.
 

XxSYNDROISxX

"Challenging Goro eh?"
I've watched pros get zoned out by this garboooo please stop... unless you pick a great anti zoner like scorpion geras etc this move is still a problem
Not anymore you can now on reaction throw up and checked out before she even gets one off due to the increase framed I know this because I have out zoned her with Baraka
 

Saltea Moonspell

"And the mustard, is off the Hotdog" TB.
Guys, lets look at the facts:

Its an unblockable move with a 33%/33%/33% option, that deals 15% ( I don't even know), with a KB addition, that has a requirement of 3 successful hits that deals what? 25-30%.

Now since the community has a mixture of players, with a heavier lean on new/casual players the "butt-hurt" factor is unavoidable. This sort of behavior is whenever someone, somewhere starts to abuse a move/character and a large number of players are unsuccessful at defending against it (we've already seen it). However, to the Sheeva madness, there is another factor.

Fun fact: during tournament play (which, lets face it: people grind the game to the point of losing connection with the real world for some time) were hopeless.

We've seen that from none other than the Vilan Foxy, exploiting (I love the way he exploits nrs failures) Sheeeva - reminds me of the Millennas b12 change during MKX days lol. Next thing you know, we have others, and the cherry on top was TitaniumTigerz making a mockery of the producer.

If not for the fact, that X numbers of people were looking at Shrek-like character with a nice juicy title "why you do this nrs" jumping carelessly, and another player had to desperately run for his life bar, NRS wouldn't be bothered taking a break from the massive project that they have been working on so hard, and change anything.

What do I think about it? - All MK games had something busted, but I have not seen anything so absurd like this. I won't be going with examples because its pointless.

I love the franchise. Been playing the series almost none stop for 10 years till MK11 came out. Prior to this game, I use to pay to play - we use to travel from country to country to tournaments, during MK9, MKX, and man we grind the shit out of it. We did it to participate, but also because we loved these games, playing was entertaining. Plus seeing the same people from different countries in other countries was a blast. Those were the prime days of Mortal Kombat, even Cyrax, Sonya, Kabal, Alien, Tremor, Smoke was not able to take that away.

Mortal Kombat 11, even before the Corona madness, was an online game, and as that it shall remain. There is a handful of things, that take away pleasure from playing - Shieeeeevea, is just one ugly part of those things. One last thought - I remember, when Boon was advertising the game as "neutral heavy style" kind of a game, and when I see the picture of that Shrek-like Monster jumping all over the stage I laugh, we all laugh. Like we lough on the breaker mechanics, Wi-fi connection competitive option, or lack of disabling it. The list goes and on.

I found a way to deal with this: I play occasionally, and focus on other game, waiting, hoping that perhaps the next game will ignite the passion again. I advise doing the same.
 
Sheeva started hitting better way earlier than this 2f adjustment happened. That also contributed to the Ukraine Dragon Temple getting Foxy-stomped right after.
I knew something had to be different because like I said, people were just walking away from stomp before. I even posted months ago in my "V3 Sheeva needs a buff" thread that (regular) stomp is not a good tool in neutral -- people could recover from a special move and still have time to walk away.

This is why I've been super confused to see pros suddenly not able to counter it. I guess NRS really stealth-buffed stomp?

Or maybe it was an unintended consequence of the universal changes they made with the Ultimate patch... didn't they make a lot of hurtbox changes?
 
Or maybe it was an unintended consequence of the universal changes they made with the Ultimate patch... didn't they make a lot of hurtbox changes?
Oh, there it is.
  • Sheeva - Slightly adjusted the hit regions of Tele-Stomp and it now has 1 less frame of startup and 1 more active frame
11/16 Ultimate patch, written clear as day that they buffed the hell out of it, but I have no memory of seeing it written out like this when it came out.

So forget stealth-buffs or accidental buffs, everything is exactly according to NRS's vision of the ultimate MK experience.
 
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XxSYNDROISxX

"Challenging Goro eh?"
I literally just had a guy screaming in the mic saying I don't play Sheeva right. his words and I Quote " do you not know how to play her right you're ignoring her strongest move without Stomp she's basically useless the only reason you won is because I was expecting the Stomp"
Guys how do I respond to something like this
LMAO!!!!!!!!
 
Heres what I would do if this was my game:

Keep the stomp exactly as it is but now it's limited. Sheeva starts the game with x amount of stomps. When she uses all her stomps in stock she can not use it anymore. To earn more stomps she has to land a "2 player animation". This includes: throws, b3, u3, bf4, db4, etc. (MAYBE stomp itself).

This would:
-Make Sheeva have to do something other than stomp
-Make her more fun to play/against
-Avoid neutering a move she needs.

A quicker fix would be give it a cool down.
 
Heres what I would do if this was my game:

Keep the stomp exactly as it is but now it's limited. Sheeva starts the game with x amount of stomps. When she uses all her stomps in stock she can not use it anymore. To earn more stomps she has to land a "2 player animation". This includes: throws, b3, u3, bf4, db4, etc. (MAYBE stomp itself).

This would:
-Make Sheeva have to do something other than stomp
-Make her more fun to play/against
-Avoid neutering a move she needs.

A quicker fix would be give it a cool down.
the thing is that Sheeva is generally just a bad character and since they probably won't want to fix her, for the community out cry and general unwillingness, I think they just might leave stomp without adjusting it anymore. For now stomp puts a band aid over the gunshot wound of fixing sheeva's actual problems.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
I literally just had a guy screaming in the mic saying I don't play Sheeva right. his words and I Quote " do you not know how to play her right you're ignoring her strongest move without Stomp she's basically useless the only reason you won is because I was expecting the Stomp"
Guys how do I respond to something like this
LMAO!!!!!!!!
"Git gud" or "stay free"
 

XxSYNDROISxX

"Challenging Goro eh?"
the thing is that Sheeva is generally just a bad character and since they probably won't want to fix her, for the community out cry and general unwillingness, I think they just might leave stomp without adjusting it anymore. For now stomp puts a band aid over the gunshot wound of fixing sheeva's actual problems.
Bad ? lol no even without Stomp she's Mid tier
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
For anyone interested in this topic, that Tom Brady podcast discussion with TitaniumTigerzz (there's another thread about it, plus it's on Tom's YT channel) is worth a listen. Most of the discussion about Sheeva happens in the first 30-45 min or so, if you don't want to listen to the whole thing.

TT is obviously the most well-known Sheeva player right now, and he agrees: If you nerf stomp into the ground, Sheeva would be done for. Basically another Shao Kahn-- technically still viable, a few things to like, but no real reason to pick her. Outside of stomp, other characters can do what she does but better, and aren't held back by her slow movement and stubby range.

Stomp is the only thing that makes her scary in the neutral. TT agreed that it's kinda broken as is, but she's totally built around it, so would be hard to change without trashing her. It would also be unfair to nerf Sheeva without nerfing the other "fuck neutral" top tier characters who are breaking the game just as much in different ways, and so far NRS hasn't seemed willing to do that. I agree with that though; I'm not sure she deserves to be nerfed again until they nerf the whole top 5.