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How to balance Sheeva?

I don't know how to balance the stomp, I don't play against any Sheeva players, but what I don't understand is why they crippled the Dragon Stance. I mean don't get me wrong it's still a great move but it's the same problem as before, Dragon Stance itself was not the problem, the problem was that Dragon Stance was mixed with too much utility, Sheeva could have it plus two extra abilities and that was too much. Making the Dragon Stance 2 slots and not touching its frames would have been much much better than to nerf the move itself.

NRS has a good in-game balance system with the abilities slots and they never use it !
 
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I'm confused by all the Sheeva hysteria lately. People haven't had much problem dodging stomp IME; they just wait for the camera shift and then walk away. But I don't use the directable version -- is that the one ppl are complaining about or is it her base stomp?
If you start walking when the screen shifts, you get hit. People are walking based on expected land timing, not reaction.

You can easily avoid the no-delay and max-delay timings both with a dash + walk (or double forward dashes). It's being able to delay the stomp to ANY POINT in between those two that is the problem, because that catches people in the pause between dashes. So the optimal way to play Sheeva is to just randomly press the stomp delay for variable timings.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
It doesn't matter how many frames you add, she still has a selectable drop window of 30 frames where she can come down whenever she chooses (after you try to dodge).
That's not how the delay works. Pressing delay after Sheeva leaves the ground keeps the camera locked in place; as soon as you come off the button (or after a 30 frame max delay), that's when the camera shifts (i.e., locks on the opponent's position) and there is a fixed frame interval before she drops on that position. Once the camera shifts, you can't delay the drop (or otherwise change where she comes down, like with directional drop).

Side note, I don't think NRS actually stealth buffed Sheeva's drop hitbox, but I do wonder if the patch notes are misleading. It says "Dragon Drop is now off-screen for 2 more frames before her drop attack begins" (referring to that fixed interval after the camera shifts), but if you look at the frame data before and after the patch, it looks like they added 1 frame to the startup and 1 active frame. So what might actually be happening is that Sheeva is causing a hit reaction 1 frame earlier than she could before. Her hitbox isn't bigger; she's just catching you higher up in her drop.

Seems like a dev mistake to me (what it says in the patch notes is probably what they intended to do), but if it was, you'd think we'd have gotten a hotfix by now. So who knows what the real story is.

Everyone's solutions are so dramatic. Just add 2 to 5 frames after the camera shift and before she drops down.
I agree, this really is a sufficient fix. NRS tried to take the first step, by supposedly adding 2 more frames to the fixed interval before she drops. They should remove that additional active frame (if it was a mistake) or increase the true startup delay by a small amount more, so the shift is a little easier to react to even in lag and for characters who don't have long dashes to get out from underneath her.

The point should be to increase the risk for Sheeva if she goes for drop in the neutral, not to destroy the move and make it worthless. She should still be able to use it to counterzone, for oki, and to catch people whiffing long recovery moves--not super easily, but on a good read, definitely. Her stubby melee range is balanced around that, so if you destroy dragon drop, you pretty much destroy the whole character.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
my idea is i think delaying stomp should cost defensive meter and take away the delay option on enhanced dragon stomp she doesn't need both options
This is the thing about balancing Sheeva

She is NOT top 5. Maybe possibly not even top 10. So she's technically fine where she's at.

If you want to balance Sheeva by nerfing her, that means you would have to do 1 of 2 things:

1.) Give her an equal amount of buffs to compensate for the nerfs you give her so she stays where she is at on the tier list

2.) Nerf her and every character above her, so Fujin Liu Joker Johnny Jacqui Cetrion etc. Would all need to be "balanced" as well if Sheeva needs to
 

Ashesfall

Jason lives forever
Sheeva: "Keep sliding Sub Zero, one day you will hit me and win" :laughing:

17999

ps: boooo for closing the other thread, its MortalKombat (rated not for teens) and only the word "fuck" was said, cry-babies ... :laughing:
 
So what might actually be happening is that Sheeva is causing a hit reaction 1 frame earlier than she could before. Her hitbox isn't bigger; she's just catching you higher up in her drop.
She started hitting a lot better before this last non-patch, in a hotfix patch that they didn't even put patch notes out for. So lol for us trying to work out what changed.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
She started hitting a lot better before this last non-patch, in a hotfix patch that they didn't even put patch notes out for. So lol for us trying to work out what changed.
We've had some fantasy "stealth buffs" before so I'm a bit skeptical of this one, is this something I can clearly see on a video? Is there a specific patch?
 
We've had some fantasy "stealth buffs" before so I'm a bit skeptical of this one, is this something I can clearly see on a video? Is there a specific patch?
Before the patch note-less patch some characters could walk away from under Sheeva with ease. After, they could not.

I don't know what to tell you. I played Kotal, and I walked out before routinely, then after I could no longer do it.

We cannot point to what changed because THEY DID NOT RELEASE ANY PATCH NOTES.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Before the patch note-less patch some characters could walk away from under Sheeva with ease. After, they could not.

I don't know what to tell you. I played Kotal, and I walked out before routinely, then after I could no longer do it.

We cannot point to what changed because THEY DID NOT RELEASE ANY PATCH NOTES.
Alright but you could maybe point to a day it happens or a tournament before it so we could look at footage rather then being like "yo it's definitely true"
 
Alright but you could maybe point to a day it happens or a tournament before it so we could look at footage rather then being like "yo it's definitely true"
'yo could you spend time finding an undocumented patch so we can confirm Sheeva is a problem when she wasn't all year until that she suddenly was'

So how about YOU find me a list of the patches and unnoted hotfixes, and I'll pick the correct one. For the consoles, that is, because who knows when the PC version does anything.
 
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Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Looks like Jade, Skarlet and Mileena can still just front-walk out. Huh.


This is the most detailed video I've seen.
If it's true that Sheeva's dragon drop hitbox really is bigger--or, more likely I think, becomes active 1 frame earlier than it used to--it makes total sense that characters with the smallest hurtboxes will still have the easiest time escaping.

So... good time to have a female character main... not so great a time to main one of the large-bodied fellas...