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Question - Piercing How does Piercing dominate Grandmaster?

hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
I know this question is just as obvious as 'Why is Alien Top 5?', but my buddy is a mileena player and our sets are close. He is incensed and doesn't believe mileena strongly wins this matchup cause I can kill him in the corner faster than he kills me midscreen. (His words not mine)

So I pose the question. How does mileena 6-4 or 7-3 grandmaster?


@A F0xy Grampa @YOMI RM SaltFace @any mileenas
 
myri

myri

Time Warrior
I don't play Mileena but it seems pretty obvious.

Grandmaster needs the corner to be effective, whereas Mileena can fight from literally anywhere on screen. Sub hasn't got many great ways to get in since slide is unsafe if blocked, you'd have to get the spacing really well and even then it's not your turn after. Mileena can punish most clone cancels with meterburn roll if I'm not mistaken (tell me if I am), she has much better damage in general than Sub unless we're talking about the corner but even then Mileena hits hard in the corner. Add to that the fact that Mileena builds meter like her life depends on it, she can break anytime Sub gets a hit on her and then it's back to the zoning, run up throw, telekick into sai game that we all know and love (hate). Mileena has every tool that you could possibly need in this game and is viable from any part of the screen. Grandmaster is so predicated on the corner that all Mileena has to do is avoid getting cornered, which isn't hard given all I've mentioned thus far. Sub doesn't really have a good footsie tool to counter b12 with other than maybe d4 (again I might be wrong).

Basically you have to play Mileena's game 90% of the time and if Sub does get in, you probably have a breaker from all the sais you've thrown so it's right back to square one.
 
TyCarter35

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
hkriderz said:
By his words, she was his first main since the day the game came out lol
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Pre XL Mileena against GM sub was definitely in Sub's favor. Now though that no longer is the case since Mileena has a plethora of options and tools that she doesn't have to rely on her unsafe specials like she used to which may play a factor in the matchup being even. Ur buddy probably hasn't realized that yet
 
hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
TyCarter35 said:
Pre XL Mileena against GM sub was definitely in Sub's favor. Now though that no longer is the case since Mileena has a plethora of options and tools that she doesn't have to rely on her unsafe specials like she used to which may play a factor in the matchup being even. Ur buddy probably hasn't realized that yet
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how is b12 being plus 2 a favor to sub? Mileena was "nerfed" on XL. Also i'm sure he doesn't play the old b1 punishable mileena anymore. Trust me
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
myri said:
I don't play Mileena but it seems pretty obvious.

Grandmaster needs the corner to be effective, whereas Mileena can fight from literally anywhere on screen. Sub hasn't got many great ways to get in since slide is unsafe if blocked, you'd have to get the spacing really well and even then it's not your turn after. Mileena can punish most clone cancels with meterburn roll if I'm not mistaken (tell me if I am), she has much better damage in general than Sub unless we're talking about the corner but even then Mileena hits hard in the corner. Add to that the fact that Mileena builds meter like her life depends on it, she can break anytime Sub gets a hit on her and then it's back to the zoning, run up throw, telekick into sai game that we all know and love (hate). Mileena has every tool that you could possibly need in this game and is viable from any part of the screen. Grandmaster is so predicated on the corner that all Mileena has to do is avoid getting cornered, which isn't hard given all I've mentioned thus far. Sub doesn't really have a good footsie tool to counter b12 with other than maybe d4 (again I might be wrong).

Basically you have to play Mileena's game 90% of the time and if Sub does get in, you probably have a breaker from all the sais you've thrown so it's right back to square one.
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This. Not to mention that she has a female hitbox so Sub can't even get his max damage combos in the corner, and doesn't get to do the same combos if she gets hit by b2 crouching. It's a terrible matchup, near unwinnable IMO. Too many things against Sub. Maybe your friend isn't playing lame enough.

Edit: Oh and regular ice ball might be punished on reaction by telekick. I'm not sure though.
 
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crosshair271

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
Amplified$hotz said:
This. Not to mention that she has a female hitbox so Sub can't even get his max damage combos in the corner, and doesn't get to do the same combos if she gets hit by b2 crouching.
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Sub can get the same damage on females as the males. It takes some practice but there are universal corner combos. As far as the Crouch/Crouch Blocking females, only some give that issue. B2 combos work easily on Sonya, Kitana and Jacqui. Not on Mileena, Cassie, Tanya and Devorrah. However there is a trick to making it work on all females. I discovered it a long time ago but didn't care enough to post it. You have to B2 them from further back or at maximum distance. Make his fingertips connect and you can get the full B2 combo. When you're practicing this make sure the dummy is in full crouch stance before you B2. Instantly B2'ing when the dummy is starting to crouch from Training mode reset causes inconsistent results. It works then doesn't work. That happened to Brady when he couldn't figure out why it worked then didn't work randomly.
 
Vak Phoenix

Vak Phoenix

Warrior
myri said:
You can know about a character without playing them. Why don't you point out where I was wrong?
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You can know about the character, but straight up giving the match up knowledge is bullocks. hes asking Mileena players, i do not see how someone that doesnt play Mileena can give a good response about the match the do not play.


Ugh what did this website turn into...
 
myri

myri

Time Warrior
Vak Phoenix said:
You can know about the character, but straight up giving the match up knowledge is bullocks. hes asking Mileena players, i do not see how someone that doesnt play Mileena can give a good response about the match the do not play.


Ugh what did this website turn into...
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Again you don't have to play the character or the matchup to know about said character or matchup. I've seen this matchup plenty of times where Tom has being playing f0xy and I've read a lot about it and I have messed around a bit with both characters at one point or another. Once again you haven't pointed out anything in my explanation that may have been incorrect and you're adding nothing to this discussion so I think you should reconsider who is really having a negative affect on this site.

Seriously if you think what I'm saying is bullshit then please by all means prove me wrong, I would love to have an actual proper discussion about the topic.
 
loogie

loogie

Kombatant
I main both characters (GM is my main, Mil secondary) and I was doing a writeup then I found this video ..

 
Reactions: GAV
rubmytaco

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
Hugely in Mileena's favor. I also play both characters (I picked up Mileena to learn the mu from the other side), and on a basic level, Mileena destroys Sub Zero. Putting up the clone anywhere except the corner is absolutely useless and Sub has to inch his way in without any good strings to challenge b12. The only thing he has to contest it, is f42, but you're eating 30% if Mileena decides to keep walking back and whiff punish after f4.
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Mileena can win this matchup by spamming sai all day, keep the life lead and outlame Sub. The neutral game is actually not THAT dominated by Mileena, Sub can low profile B1 with his d4. However Mileena has more options to whiff punish Sub. Damage and meter build are heavily in Mileena's favor. Sub's d2 is very bad, he has a lot of trouble punishing Mileena's telekick - air sai. Prepatch with the old horrible recovery of air sai this was never a big deal.
But even Foxy did say that this matchup feels like 4-6 if GM manages to corner Mileena on stages without corner jumping interractables. So advice for GM players: pick Dead wood and play patiently
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
crosshair271 said:
Sub can get the same damage on females as the males. It takes some practice but there are universal corner combos. As far as the Crouch/Crouch Blocking females, only some give that issue. B2 combos work easily on Sonya, Kitana and Jacqui. Not on Mileena, Cassie, Tanya and Devorrah. However there is a trick to making it work on all females. I discovered it a long time ago but didn't care enough to post it. You have to B2 them from further back or at maximum distance. Make his fingertips connect and you can get the full B2 combo. When you're practicing this make sure the dummy is in full crouch stance before you B2. Instantly B2'ing when the dummy is starting to crouch from Training mode reset causes inconsistent results. It works then doesn't work. That happened to Brady when he couldn't figure out why it worked then didn't work randomly.
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Ooooh thanks. Do you have the inputs for the combos?
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Basically she crushes him in footsies, constricts his ability to build meter, builds a shit load of meter so she can always break, can punish basically all of his stuff, the new recovery on sai blast allows her to destroy a clone the second Sub-Zero deploys one with no consequence, her low sai keeps him from being able slide, AND she is hitting way harder than him. He has to use an unsafe 50/50 to open her up, and do it fast because she will be able to break if he doesn't. If she gets the first hit of the game, you need to go full Jedi master mode to keep her from easily taking the first round. Normally Sub can thrive on playing the game at his pace, but Mileena forces him to play it faster and rush. It is a common theme in Sub's poverty matches: they don't allow him to play patiently.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
YoloRoll1stHit said:
Mileena can win this matchup by spamming sai all day, keep the life lead and outlame Sub. The neutral game is actually not THAT dominated by Mileena, Sub can low profile B1 with his d4. However Mileena has more options to whiff punish Sub. Damage and meter build are heavily in Mileena's favor. Sub's d2 is very bad, he has a lot of trouble punishing Mileena's telekick - air sai. Prepatch with the old horrible recovery of air sai this was never a big deal.
But even Foxy did say that this matchup feels like 4-6 if GM manages to corner Mileena on stages without corner jumping interractables. So advice for GM players: pick Dead wood and play patiently
Click to expand...
Isn't dead woods the longest ass stage in the game? Why make it even harder to corner her?
 
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