Question - Piercing How does Piercing dominate Grandmaster?

[Youphemism]

Keep discussion on topic pleeeeeeeeeease, you've already been warned once

 

[hkriderz]

The pit is the shortest stage but both corners have jump out interactables. In my head I can only think of dead woods as a stage that doesn't have interactables on both sides

Destroyed City and Quan Chi Fortress is the best stage for grandmaster imo. No escapes interactables and super easy to get someone in the corner

 

[hkriderz]

Most people have summed up why the matchup is what it is. I can only guess your friend is allowing himself to get cornered too easily which is hell for Mileena to get out of. If he adapts to playing the MU midscreen at all times it should be fine.

Or maybe skillwise it is not the MU and you are just better than him

I do get some reads and iceball trades on him ( i know shocking lol) and it takes one combo to put him in the corner I basically mess with him until he dies. He does use meter though, more than I think needed. But idk, that's why I made this thread. I wanted to hear about this mu from someone other than Tom. I am surprised that I get close sets against a piercing.

Oh and Big thing, He doesn't consistently punish b2. I guess at max range she can't do anything about it.

 

[Tanno]

Mileena can win this matchup by spamming sai all day, keep the life lead and outlame Sub. The neutral game is actually not THAT dominated by Mileena, Sub can low profile B1 with his d4. However Mileena has more options to whiff punish Sub. Damage and meter build are heavily in Mileena's favor. Sub's d2 is very bad, he has a lot of trouble punishing Mileena's telekick - air sai. Prepatch with the old horrible recovery of air sai this was never a big deal.
But even Foxy did say that this matchup feels like 4-6 if GM manages to corner Mileena on stages without corner jumping interractables. So advice for GM players: pick Dead wood and play patiently

I see. Will try Deadwoods to test my GM against that bitch.

 

[hkriderz]

I guess his big argument is I never outplay him because I'm only winning because I "safe 50 50 " him and in the corner I kill him. I mean I guess going through the minefield that mileena sets midscreen and the whiff punishes and iceball trades and reads to get him in the dreaded corner game isn't outplaying enough I suppose.

Also without armor Sub is limited against her b12 game and blockstrings. Sub Zero is too powerful in the corner.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I'm not sure but I remember d4 clone is safe at max range against Mileena. Her reversal ex roll doesn't reach
And if you're a god you can try to use clone her telekick on reaction (she falls into the clone as Sub hops back) hope this helps

 

[Tanno]

I'm not sure but I remember d4 clone is safe at max range against Mileena. Her reversal ex roll doesn't reach
And if you're a god you can try to use clone her telekick on reaction (she falls into the clone as Sub hops back) hope this helps

I confirm this. The klone works against her telekick. And I did it twice in a row. I played against a friend who mains her, and I froze her when he did the wakeup telekick.

Note that you need to be in the klone's range, so that you can avoid her telekick.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Oh and Big thing, He doesn't consistently punish b2. I guess at max range she can't do anything about it.

He definitely needs to spend time practicing punishment

 

[rubmytaco]

I'm getting so tired of posting this and no one ever learns it or spreads the word.

These are all my normal bnb combos and they're still hella inconsistent on females.

 

[tafka Djinn]

These are all my normal bnb combos and they're still hella inconsistent on females.

I'm curious as to what way they're inconsistent, it's been pretty reliable in my experience on the receiving end, so I genuinely would like to know. Especially if there's any way one can intentionally force it, it would be relevant to the thread if so, and maybe something I could use against him. Nothing but love @crosshair271 nothing but love.

 

[rubmytaco]

I'm curious as to what way they're inconsistent, it's been pretty reliable in my experience on the receiving end, so I genuinely would like to know. Especially if there's any way one can intentionally force it, it would be relevant to the thread if so, and maybe something I could use against him. Nothing but love @crosshair271 nothing but love.

I've been in practice trying to do all of these with the goal of consistently freezing. I specifically tried Mileena and wasn't able to hit anything other than the 12 frost bomb and b2 b2 conversions. The others simply dropped 9 times out of 10 due to extremely strict timing. Maybe things are easier on D'vorah, but Mileena is a tough cookie to freeze.

 

[tafka Djinn]

I've been in practice trying to do all of these with the goal of consistently freezing. I specifically tried Mileena and wasn't able to hit anything other than the 12 frost bomb and b2 b2 conversions. The others simply dropped 9 times out of 10 due to extremely strict timing. Maybe things are easier on D'vorah, but Mileena is a tough cookie to freeze.

Mileena does seem to be a little harder to catch than D'vorah, you seem to be right about that. And while I don't really feel that those are prohibitively tight, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable using them in a tournament without giving them the same kind of attention I did Flame Fist's SF>WP, or the IAFB combos. Don't really feel that execution difficulty is a valid way to judge combo inconsistency if the window is 2f or higher.

 

[crosshair271]

I've been in practice trying to do all of these with the goal of consistently freezing. I specifically tried Mileena and wasn't able to hit anything other than the 12 frost bomb and b2 b2 conversions. The others simply dropped 9 times out of 10 due to extremely strict timing. Maybe things are easier on D'vorah, but Mileena is a tough cookie to freeze.

I'll try it on Mileena at some point. Just curious, are you putting any variables like different distances, crouching, standing etc?

 

[thlityoursloat]

Simple, it's the same way she beats everybody.
By spamming b12 and her 0 recovery sais.

 

[rubmytaco]

I'll try it on Mileena at some point. Just curious, are you putting any variables like different distances, crouching, standing etc?

No variables, just standing. This makes it even less viable in a serious setting imo.

 

[crosshair271]

No variables, just standing. This makes it even less viable in a serious setting imo.

I did some random variable testing and it still works. The 1, 1 conversion is the hardest but has it's use when you're trying to wait out the Klone cool down. Try D3, D3 I felt that was the easiest and do B12 when they're between his belt and knee.

 

[rubmytaco]

I did some random variable testing and it still works. The 1, 1 conversion is the hardest but has it's use when you're trying to wait out the Klone cool down. Try D3, D3 I felt that was the easiest and do B12 when they're between his belt and knee.

Sure, it will work, but nowhere near consistently for me.

 

[crosshair271]

Sure, it will work, but nowhere near consistently for me.

It took me some time to get the hang of it. The females have to be lower than the males and the sweet spot is between his belt and knee. Try D3, D3 for some time to get the height muscle memory. Other than that I can't really say much else.

 

[Revenant Zero]

Time to Salt the Wound, ladies and gents.
Now, I've run this match up, countless times. If I'm being honest, I think the MU is 5-5. Being more in the person behind the character than the character itself. Yeah, Mileena has + on meter build, projectiles, can anti-air with roll, EX Roll after a bait for an easy 30-36% but regardless of that. I feel like the match up is 5-5, but depending on the person behind the wheel it can go either or. 6-4 for the party who knows the MU, and depending if the opposite party knows what to do in a situation.

You can't honestly expect every Mileena player online to play like Foxy, Akro, Semijj or Saltface. Mileena in the corner needs to get out immediately, or else Sub will just go for the Mid-Air Freeze set up for a hard knockdown for another jail game. I saw a meterless shatter combo in this thread that I may have I try.

My Ethos here is: I'm a Sub-Zero player so my thing is more biased for Sub-Zero but I am also leaning toward Mileena because of her obvious tools and pros compared to Sub.

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

Piercing has upper hand unless it's in corner.

Ice clone really limits her options if you stay within the clone's range.

 

[hkriderz]

Time to Salt the Wound, ladies and gents.
Now, I've run this match up, countless times. If I'm being honest, I think the MU is 5-5. Being more in the person behind the character than the character itself. Yeah, Mileena has + on meter build, projectiles, can anti-air with roll, EX Roll after a bait for an easy 30-36% but regardless of that. I feel like the match up is 5-5, but depending on the person behind the wheel it can go either or. 6-4 for the party who knows the MU, and depending if the opposite party knows what to do in a situation.

You can't honestly expect every Mileena player online to play like Foxy, Akro, Semijj or Saltface. Mileena in the corner needs to get out immediately, or else Sub will just go for the Mid-Air Freeze set up for a hard knockdown for another jail game. I saw a meterless shatter combo in this thread that I may have I try.

My Ethos here is: I'm a Sub-Zero player so my thing is more biased for Sub-Zero but I am also leaning toward Mileena because of her obvious tools and pros compared to Sub.

Here's the simple truth. A matchup number is decided by the highest level of play from both characters and players.

Low sai so he has to crawl his way in, telekick so his iceballs are pointless to use, her meter build so she breakers each touch, her superior pokes and tools, adding to her female hitbox which can not be comboed easily, and recently discovered if you end on anything besides f12 and set up the clone she has enough time to sai and block anything. Plus her telekick completely ignores the clone if you're standing.

MU numbers are not decided by beating mileenas that have no idea what to do in the matchup. At the highest level, mileena demolishes Grandmaster, and that's the only number that matters.

PS I am also and Sub Zero main and I have also run the matchup countless times.

 

[Revenant Zero]

Here's the simple truth. A matchup number is decided by the highest level of play from both characters and players.

Low sai so he has to crawl his way in, telekick so his iceballs are pointless to use, her meter build so she breakers each touch, her superior pokes and tools, adding to her female hitbox which can not be comboed easily, and recently discovered if you end on anything besides f12 and set up the clone she has enough time to sai and block anything. Plus her telekick completely ignores the clone if you're standing.

MU numbers are not decided by beating mileenas that have no idea what to do in the matchup. At the highest level, mileena demolishes Grandmaster, and that's the only number that matters.

PS I am also and Sub Zero main and I have also run the matchup countless times.

I guess I will have to wait and see if there is a patch on 10/4 to even out these obvious points against Sub.

When you say sai after anything beside F12, do you mean regular/low or does it not matter. I usually low block in the clone to circumvent the telekick. I opt to punish telekick after block with a throw but I know thats not a viable case when Mileena air sais after the kick is blocked.

I just don't understand why someone people think Piercing Vs. GM is 6-4 in Piercing favor but treat as if its like 2-8, like literally Sub no options. It's not impossible for Sub, but it'll be a climb fer sure

 

[hkriderz]

I guess I will have to wait and see if there is a patch on 10/4 to even out these obvious points against Sub.

When you say sai after anything beside F12, do you mean regular/low or does it not matter. I usually low block in the clone to circumvent the telekick. I opt to punish telekick after block with a throw but I know thats not a viable case when Mileena air sais after the kick is blocked.

I just don't understand why someone people think Piercing Vs. GM is 6-4 in Piercing favor but treat as if its like 2-8, like literally Sub no options. It's not impossible for Sub, but it'll be a climb fer sure

Regular sai. It recovers fast enough that only the f12 knockdown can hit her before she can block.

Plus I forgot she can punish b2 for 35% meter less so that's a huge negative.

Yes u could block low to counter telekick, but then u kind of already lost because she will sai and remove the clone, and keep in mind mileena does not need to telekick unless she sees u throw the iceball so basically your clone becomes semi useless in the neutral.

If played as if both characters know the matchup and all their options, it easily becomes at least a 6-4 or a 7-3. If you've been mopping mileenas and think otherwise, you probably haven't played one who knows the matchup truly to begin with.

People treat it like a death matchup because it is a death matchup.

 

[Revenant Zero]

I might have to lab some things then haha. I love playing Mileena players because it helps me gauge what I should and shouldn't do when I play. F12 is or Throw into corner are my go to enders when I do a corner set up.
I'm not going to throw B2 indiscriminately, it's so slow and I only use that in the corner or when I know someone is low ducking the entire match.

I'll have lab that because I thought I studied all of Mileena's special options. Hey the more work I have the more I can lab this stuff and be ready for the unexpected.

I would go as far as saying 6-4 but not 7-3. Mileena doesn't go low and slide through the clone lol.

#SubStruggle is definitely there when I read this thread.

 

[hkriderz]

I might have to lab some things then haha. I love playing Mileena players because it helps me gauge what I should and shouldn't do when I play. F12 is or Throw into corner are my go to enders when I do a corner set up.
I'm not going to throw B2 indiscriminately, it's so slow and I only use that in the corner or when I know someone is low ducking the entire match.

I'll have lab that because I thought I studied all of Mileena's special options. Hey the more work I have the more I can lab this stuff and be ready for the unexpected.

I would go as far as saying 6-4 but not 7-3. Mileena doesn't go low and slide through the clone lol.

#SubStruggle is definitely there when I read this thread.

Anything other than f12 clone she can wake up sai and block whatever you do because of the fast recovery.

I would play a mileena who knows the match first before calling it lol. It's very frustrating.

Telekick into air sai is something you should lab because as of now, sub cannot punish that even with an uppercut. He's one of the few.

BTW when you lab that make sure to record sub crouch blocking and the air sai after the telekick should be blocked and not go over his head. Then try and punish.

Other than that I can't think of anything to lab. It's all on the table. You just have to play it to experience it.

Good luck on the matchup