Question - Grandmaster Help me improve

[RVB]

Now my GM is rather mediocre and I wanted to ask my fellow SZ mains to pitch in with ideas of what I can do better and what I should add to my gameplay.
I've done a highlight of about 10 games on my stream to give you guys an impression of where I'm at with GM.
Any pertinent suggestion would be greatly appreciated, thank you in advance.

 

[loogie]

nice games, I think the Shinnok player was somewhat predictable in what he was doing especially with the 1124 string. I didn't watch the whole set, but from the couple of games I've seen, I could give you a some inputs:

- after a combo ending with a slide you get a guaranteed clone to put on screen, I always put a clone up after a slide ender from a midscreen combo and let the opponent worry about getting in, restrict their space again
- noticed you use clone shatter quite a few times when midscreen, I would probably keep it on the screen and not shatter it - instead clone toss is more advantageous or just keep it there, opponent has to 'worry' about it a little longer. much rather have space control then get a 2.5% chip damage from a blocked clone shatter that gives no advantage

cheers

 

[Braindead]

Why do people still end combos with F42 xx Slide after a 242?

Why?

 

[RVB]

Why do people still end combos with F42 xx Slide after a 242?

Why?

i find doing f42 slide better than 123 cuz i can control where my opponent lands by altering the timing, also 123 tends to whiff if I'm not accustomed to the level of delay.

@loogie thanks for the input mate that is what I'm looking for.

 

[Braindead]

i find doing f42 slide better than 123 cuz i can control where my opponent lands by altering the timing, also 123 tends to whiff if I'm not accustomed to the level of delay.

@loogie thanks for the input mate that is what looking for.

123 slide does more damage and waaaaaaaaaaaaay more corner carry, which should be your entire gameplan goal. I really think you should switch to that, life becomes a lot easier when you corner your opponent with one combo.

 

[RVB]

123 slide does more damage and waaaaaaaaaaaaay more corner carry, which should be your entire gameplan goal. I really think you should switch to that, life becomes a lot easier when you corner your opponent with one combo.

This is true no doubt about it and I should start using 123 more really.
But against certain character like Takeda or Kenshi where you want to end your combos with something that will keep you close to them, I think f42slide is better suited.

 

[XxDark_]

check him with more d4.. and as braindead mentioned. 123 slide does more damage and corner carry so theres no reason not to use it. also there were times that you combo him out the corner. try to keep the corner position as much as possible. when you get the clone out in the corner sometimes its best to just step back and see how they react because if you try to run in immediately your risking get njp. but overall good

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Why do people still end combos with F42 xx Slide after a 242?

Why?

THANK YOU!

lol, I've been thinking the same thing!

 

[Braindead]

THANK YOU!

lol, I've been thinking the same thing!

What baffles me is that Tom Brady still uses F42 slide. Well at least until the last time I watched him a couple of weeks ago.

You'd think of all people, Tom Brady would be the one optimizing his stuff. Lol

 

[Sage Leviathan]

This is true no doubt about it and I should start using 123 more really.
But against certain character like Takeda or Kenshi where you want to end your combos with something that will keep you close to them, I think f42slide is better suited.

Slide grants enough advantage that you can run up to the opponent on oki and either pressure them or block their wakeup attack.

If they delay wakeup, keep running. It pushes them to the corner.

Post translation: +1 reason 123~Slide > f42~Slide

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Alright so... I didn't watch all the matches, however here's my input.

Aside from 123 like Braindead said...

1. Needs more B2. Almost every time midscreen, you ran up and did b33. B2 is awesome and when you start mixing that with b33... the results are amazing.

2. Hit confirming! In the 3 or 4 matches I watched you do b33 and whether it was blocked or not you didn't do anything. OR you did b33 freeze on block. It didn't hurt you in those matches but it could turn in to more damage and more wins.

and this is just a personal thing... but I'm fairly sure it gives more advantage in the corner. I never end with F12 but always do NJP NJK.

Seems like there was something else but... I can't remember it. lol

Hope this helps!

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

What baffles me is that Tom Brady still uses F42 slide. Well at least until the last time I watched him a couple of weeks ago.

You'd think of all people, Tom Brady would be the one optimizing his stuff. Lol

He's a diablo player now. :kappa

 

[llabslb]

After you set up a clone in the corner and you see that your opponent has bar, go for a D4. By doing this it means if they were to do an armoured wake up the D4 will break their armour and the ice clone will freeze them. This does not work for characters that have a wakeup which involves them remain in one position like Kung Lao.

You can see me do this against Shinok at 10:40 of this video.

 

[Banazama]

What baffles me is that Tom Brady still uses F42 slide. Well at least until the last time I watched him a couple of weeks ago.

You'd think of all people, Tom Brady would be the one optimizing his stuff. Lol

EDIT: Because leaving with just a video seems more smug than constructive.

Tom Brady makes his case on why F42 is a superior option than 123. I don't play the character myself, but the way Brady presents it, seems that it's not as cut and dry as "lol 123 is better."

 

[RyuuJin882]

Face it @RVB you're just bad cause you're still playing the PC port. *Dog Face

 

[Braindead]

EDIT: Because leaving with just a video seems more smug than constructive.

Tom Brady makes his case on why F42 is a superior option than 123. I don't play the character myself, but the way Brady presents it, seems that it's not as cut and dry as "lol 123 is better."

OK I see you, but 242 RC 123 xx Slide carries the opponent exactly half stage long, which means you can corner the opponent from any point on the screen if you catch them with an ice ball. If your back is closer to the corner you can simply cross them up after an ice ball and throw them back into the corner.

There's no reason to keep someone midscreen when you catch them with an ice ball.

Also against the 2 characters Brady showed in the video, I think the other variations would be better than GM anyway, but that's another discussion.

 

[STB BroZki]

Hey man! Great matches! You're sub zero isn't bad. Things I think you need to work on is mixing it up more. People hate Subby like crazy so frustrate them. Use lots of people don't know how to block 123 since that low is so fast so if it connects or blocks throw out and ice clone. Create that space between you are your opponent.

Also when you have them in the corner and do a clone set up let's say b2 b2 d1 clone njp jip njk. Cut out that jip. Once you do the njk to throw an ice clone out you're vulnerable to wake ups with armor because you aren't safe. So just do the njp and njk into clone. You'll be safe.

Lastly your corner pressure needs a tad bit of work. A few of the matches you got Shinnok into the corner but left enough space to allow him to jump out or you didn't make him fear the corner. So if your clone goes away hit him with a f4 ice clone and unleash your many options. B2, b33, grab into clone, d4 to condition them to block low then boom. B2 haha. Great job man!

 

[RVB]

Thank all off you guys for coming in and being critical in such a constructive way... and the plebs of TYM talk how the SZ community is the worst
Keep the suggestions coming and I for one will try my best to put them to good use.
@llabslb lol that's ma mate Coki you're playing... such a small world

@RyuuJin882

 

[RM Ree]

I watched it through and I have some thoughts. No one is perfect, and the opportunity to point out quirks in others gameplay not only helps you, but us as well. This should be a regular thing imo.

- Pressure after d4 hits. B12 after is a frame trap mid screen, and a free mix up in the corner (armor beats it). I saw a few of your d4's hit and then clone came out. If anything, chase with f4 xx clone (or start to cancel d4>clone for less down time if that's more comfortable).

- On the note of d4, there's a sticky dedicated to using it (or b2/d2/f4) in armor shredding tech and has notes on the entire cast. For one, it stops Shinnok shoulder wake up. For others, it completely stops the wake up game (Kitana gets shit on by this).

- B33 OS ice blast would help your game a lot, and it's not that hard. Every b33 hit without freeze is damage lost. But I guess if it's too hard to hit confirm online, it's better to not commit freeze and take frame advantage than to commit and get punished, which you did.

- Wake up ex statue doesn't seem great. A lot of characters stuff it while taking your bar. I'd opt more for ex frost bomb for the launch (corner ex bomb, b2, b12 xx clone for the conversion. Does ~36% with b33 start).

- The mid screen shatter should probably be met with more patience. The toss is better overall, unless in the corner where you can convert off anti air shatter or something. If they block the thrown clone from range, they almost have to eat your following mix up.

- Throw more. After 30 minutes of footage, I saw you throw once to end a match. That's literally half of the mix up game that goes unused, and converts to good damage when thrown into clone (also, armor shred tech, d3 tick throws and throw break> freeze overlap with each other). Even if it's broken, you're at neutral, nbd.

- Take the time to cross up jip/ dash under a frozen opponent. you have the time, especially after ice ball. The corner is love. The corner is life (water is not life, it killed us in the first movie).

- Optimize your combos in the lab. The double b2 does more damage than the b2>242 in the corner. Also, corner b33 xx ice ball, ji2, b2, 242, f12, clone is safe, does more damage, and can be converted for females by ending in b334.

- Test out the 112 ender when you're just out of corner range with f42 xx slide. You can get a safe corner clone and screen push for pretty similar damage.

- You're always + after the opponent uses a breaker, - after you break. Take that into consideration when you decide to pressure or act after it happens.

Hope it helps. I'll be looking for feedback myself soon enough.

 

[loogie]

Why do people still end combos with F42 xx Slide after a 242?

Why?

well, there are quite a few applications and mostly related to where the clone is placed after the slide.
- f42 ender gives a midscreen distance clone, sometimes closer if you do the run 1 early enough or when they are high in the air fall arc. this has useful applications depending on what type of wakeups your opponent has. plus, f42 ender is more guaranteed if you are playing online and less likely to be dropped.

some other options and what they yield:

- doing a 24 slide after 1 in the juggle gives the closest clone placement, right in their face on knockdown from the slide
- doing 1 123 gives the most corner carry BUT furthest clone placement after the slide
- doing 1 then f33 slide gives a midscreen distance clone

I am using the 24 slide ender after the juggle, quite useful. you can immediately check with a b2 from behind the clone if opponent is not waking up with an attack, or run and grab... maybe there could be other applications of it, more matchup specific but it is an option too.
I don't see why 123 is the one and only option in the combo just because it has the most corner carry.

 

[RM Ree]

@loogie dies the 24 xx slide ender set up a potential armor break if they woke up with an advancing armor move? Say Mileena for example... B33 xx ice ball, whiff clone, jip, 242, run 1, 24 xx slide, clone (wake up flip and roll), d4. Would that freeze/ stop her attack, or is it not fast enough you think?

Also @RVB this opponent lol did you pick up on how he was always going for njp> cross up jip pressure, like every time? Njp or s1, b12 xx ice ball will stop the cross up for some pretty decent damage/ screen push. If he puts himself in the corner you can jump back 1, land b2 for the usual corner clone freeze too if the situation comes up.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I am using the 24 slide ender after the juggle, quite useful. you can immediately check with a b2 from behind the clone if opponent is not waking up with an attack, or run and grab... maybe there could be other applications of it, more matchup specific but it is an option too.
I don't see why 123 is the one and only option in the combo just because it has the most corner carry.

Also ending in 24 slide... if you do it early enough you'll slide under them and can catch them with a JIP into 50/50 if they aren't paying attention a la mk9 reptile ending the combo early to dash into jip. I don't use it often, but it works when used rarely.

 

[SaSSolino]

Posting for updates

 

[Ryncage]

Optimize your combo execution, throw clone more. Slide under crossups or to catch people jumping.

Also, try to imrpove on the mind game. Bait guys into hanging themselves with clone. Teleports are very easy to punish online if you mixup your positioning relative to clone. Hanging out behind clone and dashing past it on a teleport will get them thinking twice about constantly throwing them out. Your play is really solid, just needs to be refined.

Always make the opponent play at your pace, playing your game. Never theirs. Clone is one of the greatest tools for destroying your enemies momentom or gameplan, so take advantage.

 

[loogie]

@loogie dies the 24 xx slide ender set up a potential armor break if they woke up with an advancing armor move? Say Mileena for example... B33 xx ice ball, whiff clone, jip, 242, run 1, 24 xx slide, clone (wake up flip and roll), d4. Would that freeze/ stop her attack, or is it not fast enough you think?

YES
IT SHREDS