Havik General Discussion

[Fatality o]

Lads should i make a thread on how to kounter certain stategies against us and brainstorm solutions? Put in a fighter plus kameo , let us know what the strategy is thats beating u , and the haviks can see what tech weve come up with .. i feel something like that needs its own thread

I think this is great idea and can maybe also be a matchup discussion/tech thread?

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

Reiko is definitely unique in a few aspects man lol. Best projectile in the game, unduckable ex command grab into big combos.

I was just saying weve seen good projectiles and unduckable command grabs in NRS games before. Hes unique for being an All-Rounder, but nothing new is brought to the table

 

[Marinjuana]

I really don't think he has major balance issues the larger HP pool goes a long way and his tools have enough upside. I think he bullies up close, his great d4 keeps him poking, his health balances out his slower projectiles which are pretty good when you get them going. A great armor move. Kameos help patch up the holes. You have to play kind of lame sometimes but he has this explosive potential and I like pressing buttons with him.

But I agree there's a level of frustration that comes with him, not in his animations or characterization in my view but in his hit reactions and the way his kit gels together. He reminds me of Rambo from MK11, where stuff seems tougher to land than you would want, certain moves have these janky hit reactions, some inconsistencies across characters. Given that he was the 'secret' unlockable character, I wonder if he was actually gonna be the boss or something and was a late addition to the roster, and came out unpolished partly because of it, but that's just a mk theory. Again I think he's quite fun, but could use some love.

Like having better launches off of NeoPlasm and Blood Ball, better frames or recovery on S3/S4, that F13 string or his F122 having more generous ambush launches. Give him more active frames on something to meaty with.

At any rate, I've been liking Tremor with him. He can take advantage of basically every ambush Tremor has to offer, the projectiles are a nice touch as always and he lets you do cheap stuff if the opponent turtles for some reason. You could just go with the armor the whole time, you can setup the overhead/low kind of off screen after a BNB into DB4 knockdown, you can do a ton of chip and be safe of EX DB4, combo into life thread from the B22~throw, make anything safe basically. (Does he have a back throw combo?) Even the simple variation switch is a nice way for Havik to get his projectiles going. Typical Tremor stuff but he just feels useful for Havik, you can really just turn your brain off just ambush into the next thing. You also get that extra 100 HP, those long Tremor cooldowns wont feel as bad when you have a 1200 HP to turtle around with.

 

[fr stack]

I think this is great idea and can maybe also be a matchup discussion/tech thread?

Ill write it out on my lunch break today.. yeah basically a very specific matchup thread

 

[ticklebandit!]

Havik/jax has been my go to but I gotta say, as much as I like being a juggernaut I don’t feel like I notice the 1200 health very much. I still feel like patient players with long pokes eat me alive. Not sure a tremor ambush mix up for small damage would make up for the long wait to get another tremor ambush attack…but then again I don’t know diddly (apology for the bad language) about havik/tremor.

I still feel like havik’s biggest issue is opening people up without Stryker or Kano.

I also feel like havik will be the mk11 Baraka of mk1. As long as he has EXbf2 to pile on (hella scaled) big damage after his bnb’s nrs will be afraid to buff him.

 

[Fatality o]

Havik/jax has been my go to but I gotta say, as much as I like being a juggernaut I don’t feel like I notice the 1200 health very much. I still feel like patient players with long pokes eat me alive. Not sure a tremor ambush mix up for small damage would make up for the long wait to get another tremor ambush attack…but then again I don’t know diddly (apology for the bad language) about havik/tremor.

I still feel like havik’s biggest issue is opening people up without Stryker or Kano.

I also feel like havik will be the mk11 Baraka of mk1. As long as he has EXbf2 to pile on (hella scaled) big damage after his bnb’s nrs will be afraid to buff him.

I messed around with jax a bit too, he gets more meterless dmg (35%~) into air 123 ender for better hit adv and positioning. I was using ground pound on oki after back throws and certain enders and you can either arm if they are close enough or jump 212 if they try and jump to escape into 20-30% combo. Also d4xxdk to check people.

1200 health doesn’t hurt at all and you can take more risks/force more ground pound chaos. Lastly having a possible 23%~ forward throw is bananas and a mixup in its own right. If you can condition people to up block jumpins you can get a gnarly throw punish for like 35% or something crazy.

What are your reasons for picking jax?

 

[FeverAyeAye]

Lastly having a possible 23%~ forward throw is bananas and a mixup in its own right.

How does that work?

 

[FeverAyeAye]

Seeing Reptile get new moves in the Ermac trailer gives me hope Havik gets something new, too, or at least a reworking of existing specials. I'd like to see bf3 offering something that was more different than bf1 and bf2 enhanced should probably not cost 2 bars. Also fixing some hitbox inconsistencies would be cool.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

How does that work?

Jax's double amp throw deals 23% 21% damage.

 

[FeverAyeAye]

No buffs for the worst character in the game

 

[Fatality o]

Definitely sad to see no buffs but hey at least raiden and pm got nerfed, havik gotta be next on the list to get some new moves or slight buffs!

 

[ForeverKlone]

Still can't get over the fact that Peacemaker's command grab can be comboed off yet Havik can't

 

[FeverAyeAye]

Still can't get over the fact that Peacemaker's command grab can be comboed off yet Havik can't

Pretty sure you can Cyrax vertical helicopter off Havik command grab.

 

[ForeverKlone]

Pretty sure you can Cyrax vertical helicopter off Havik command grab.

You'd still need a Kameo lol, plus by opting for Cyrax you're trading his normals, which are already subpar, for damage. The only advantage it has is the fact that it's mid, but since it's so slow, a D4 can easily stuff it.

 

[FeverAyeAye]

You'd still need a Kameo lol, plus by opting for Cyrax you're trading his normals, which are already subpar, for damage. The only advantage it has is the fact that it's mid, but since it's so slow, a D4 can easily stuff it.

Apologies, I thought PM also needed a kameo to combo off his command grab, like Reiko for example. Yes, our boy never catches a break it seems.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I understand Havik is currently regarded as the worst in the game but JESUS am I free to his pressure. I'd rather face 10 liu kangs than a single Havik. The staggers just completely shut me off, and I ALWAYS guess wrong in the low/grab string.

 

[Marinjuana]

Havik/Mavado strong first impressions

 

[ForeverKlone]

Havik/Mavado strong first impressions

He can finally combo off both b224 and b22throw. I find it ridiculous how Peacemaker has almost the same string (just starts from a high with less range) but the risk/reward and also resource requirement is vastly different.
Also, combo w/ Mavado would usually be starters, b22 db1 uK j24 or db4 => 35-37%. Not bad. The body slam also helps with zoners so I find it fair since Havik already has above average HP.
I'm just still annoyed about b22. Also combos from that string has always been very inconsistent at range.
Edit: both throw and command grab can combo into the mine and into db1 for decent damage.

 

[The Hex Man]

I wanna do a Sonya visual guide. Anybody got anything good they can share tech wise with her that we all might not know? Every kameo has its place big or small. Everything's not as apparent like other kameos but I've found that she definitely makes use of his d4 to the point where it's not punishable and makes the opponent hesitant to press buttons after getting hit with a couple leg grabs. And oh yeah she's great at zoning with him. Lol. Reversal leg grab invincibility is nice too. Anyway let me know. Just been optimizing damage and setups and spacing for her at this point. It works surprisingly well. We should come with one for each kameo tbh. I don't care what's the best one for him because that's not why this post is about.

 

[just_2swift]

havik needs an install buff he can activate. Or have his blood ball restore health on hit

have tether restore health over the duration capped at 25% to justify 2 bars

A cmd grab that’s mid. He plays like a grappler with no cmd grab anyways so why not?

This would give him an identity

 

[just_2swift]

To add to my post have the mid cmd grab incorporate his old weapon the Morning Star

 

[CanoCano]

Here are some Havik buff suggestions and fixes

• Make Drop Dead (F13) +15 on hit
• Add Skab Stab (B22~TH) as a followup to Undead Warrior (F12) and Sinister Stomp (F4), adjust frame data on F12 and F4 if needed
• Allow B22~TH to launch for 1 Bar of meter
• Fix hitbox inconsistencies in B22
• Decrease Helping Hand (DB1) startup down to 35f, EX can stay at 59f
• Make the first hit of DB4 and EX DB4 restand so it stops dropping combos
• Make Corpse Taunt work like Baiken's Tether when not activated, pulls the opponent in after they move away from Havik a certain distance, strengthening his neutral and combo potential on top of justifying the 2 Bars
• Add an uncroucbable command grab that does big damage but resets neutral on hit, range is similar to F4 if not slightly shorter

 

[Marinjuana]

I find that the Cyrax Horizontal Copter unnerf is a big big plus for this Kameo on Havik as you can punchtwist safe on block, taking advantage of all that chip while still getting a damage reward if it does end up hitting. You can also armor break with copter to help get necksnap landed or another setup.

But what do you guys think about Cyrax's combos with Havik? Especially with Horizontal Copter back. Do people combo through BF2 and normal copter? User copter to link DB1? What are the bnbs?

 

[CanoCano]

But what do you guys think about Cyrax's combos with Havik? Especially with Horizontal Copter back. Do people combo through BF2 and normal copter? User copter to link DB1? What are the bnbs?

Icrc if any of Havik's normals are plus enough for a Net combo but otherwise yeah, people use Vertical Kopter to combo off of BF2 then get guaranteed Corpse Taunt resets and EX BF1 setups, i've also seen folks use EX DB1 the BF1 launch to setup a bomb but idk how optimal it is
Horizontal Kopter was used to link DB1 but with the damage nerf i doubt its worth it now

 

[QUAN CHEEZY]

I find that the Cyrax Horizontal Copter unnerf is a big big plus for this Kameo on Havik as you can punchtwist safe on block, taking advantage of all that chip while still getting a damage reward if it does end up hitting. You can also armor break with copter to help get necksnap landed or another setup.

But what do you guys think about Cyrax's combos with Havik? Especially with Horizontal Copter back. Do people combo through BF2 and normal copter? User copter to link DB1? What are the bnbs?

The combos shown in my old pre-patch Cyrax vid are still the optimal routes/bnbs for the latest patch. (Just ignore the damage shown in the video as its outdated)

I think the only things missing are a some setups with Cyrax net and his the 1 bar optimals but those combos aren't very consistent anyway so you're not missing out on much.