Has NRS silenced the Mortal Kombat 1 critics?

[PrinceGoro]

"A year and half" is relative considering Capcom and Namco took a lot longer to fix Street Fighter 5 and Tekken 7, respectively.

Nonetheless, I understand that people have different standards, so your talking point is not necessarily wrong.

However, you have been moving the goal post for a year and half (and counting).

NRS has addressed many of the issues that you and I complained about for a year (i.e., Sub Zero's nerfs, low power levels, lack of character variety, etc.)

When the correction of these issues is mentioned, you resort to the predictable year-one arguments (i.e., the game was bad on release, the kameo system is flawed, the offline tournament numbers are low, etc.), which no rational person is denying.

More importantly, for a guy who has made a prominent name for himself playing Mortal Kombat for over three decades, you consistently disparage the franchise as well as the NRS (and fighting game) community on Mike's YouTube channel. You come across as condescending and resentful. For two months, you fabricated and discussed a nonissue.

Why would anyone associate you with positivity or give you the benefit of the doubt?

I would like to believe that I am consistent. When the game was legitimately bad, I said so. Now that NRS is improving the game, I say so.

I still heavily criticize the game but in productive and meaningful ways that will hopefully result in a superior game.

The point of "too little to late" is a relevant one though. This by the looks of it might be the last patch, content drop/update. Also we still dont have rooms, practice while matchmaking, customization slots etc etc.

We dont know if we will get any of it in this patch either. These type of features should have been there at launch mind you.

As great as the strides made in improving the games system within its limitations, releasing deeper and more archtyep defined characters, fleshing out the kameos and their identities is, it will all kinda fall a bit flat if the support ends.

That fact that we are on the fence arguing if the current state of the game is what should have been acceptable at launch 1 year and a half later speaks volumes.

This is the seconde game in a row that ed boon claimed many many many years of support, and this one might actually be dropped sooner then any nrs title if term 1000 and madam bo are final piece of content(and it currentlly looks to be the most likely scenario).

We will see what happens, but if support ends then "too little too late" becomes this games permanent identity.

 

[M2Dave]

The point of "too little to late" is a relevant one though.

Unless you can identify credible sources who are arguing that Mortal Kombat 1 was a success on release, this point is irrelevant one and a half years later.

As great as the strides made in improving the games system within its limitations, releasing deeper and more archtyep defined characters, fleshing out the kameos and their identities is, it will all kinda fall a bit flat if the support ends.

I agree, which is why I would like to see more content for the game as well as more gameplay discussions and gameplay criticism of the game.

If you had wanted bring up actual irrelevant points, you should have told Mike to stop commenting on ugly women in the FGC and Tom to stop commenting on people's socioeconomic status and paycheck.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Unless you can identify credible sources who are arguing that Mortal Kombat 1 was a success on release, this point is irrelevant one and a half years later.

Things have gotten good enough that Tom has gone back to complaining about MK11 now

Also his point that the state of MK1's meta in 6 months from now should be the bare minimum at launch is extremely disingenuous. All popular games, including T8, SF6, and Strive have had to sort out their meta in the first year (all 3 games are still sorting it out). No game launched with the meta completely polished.

All three games also took risks and added mechanics that drew criticism (Tekken 8 Heat system, SF6 drive rush/perfect parry, and Strive being completely different from Xrd), and it's taken more than a year in all cases to smooth things over with their communities.

MK1 can be criticized for the state of quality of life at launch, but having meta issues to work out for a year or two is normal.

 

[Jynks]

It always feels to my that NRS plays it a little safe on launch, then as the games life continues that get way more radical in the kind of things they do. I get @CrimsonShadow 's point about the meta, but I sometimes see the state of a NRS game a while after launch and think... well they should have been swinging for the fences like this from the start. I mean take the dlc kameo... why are not all the on release kameos got all this sauce? It is like the initial release is sorta dipping the toes in the test the water, when they should be doing a powerbomb from the top diving board and landing right next to that toddler swimming class.

 

[Eji1700]

MK1 can be criticized for the state of quality of life at launch, but having meta issues to work out for a year or two is normal.

There is a large difference between the launch metas of things like strive and things like MK1.

Lao and Cyrax EVERYWHERE out of the gate is bad for the game. Strive took longer to find it's biggest issues, and responded to them much faster. Be it Sol, Nago, whatever. Arguably them slowing down and letting Chaos/Ram get away with things for so long hurt them, just like how MK suffered by having fucking everyone doing string into low hat (although strive also let hackers kick them in the teeth which was another issue).

It is 100% about variety and fun. If you tuned in for a strive stream, generally there was variety. If you decided to play a low tier, it was still fun. If you tuned into an mk1 stream, you likely saw mirrors and extremely similar styles of play, and if you decide to main a low tier, you mostly felt like your arms were broken.

 

[M2Dave]

If you tuned into an mk1 stream, you likely saw mirrors and extremely similar styles of play...

You still see too many similar gameplay styles, but not in terms of character selection, of course.

The game has an abundance of characters who rely on hard-to-blockable setups and/or 50/50 mix ups (i.e., Ghostface, Kenshi, Mileena, Shao Kahn, Sindel, etc... in other words, most of the meta characters).

The so-called defensive and zoning characters are some of the more limited characters (i.e., Kitana, Peacemaker, Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, etc... in other words, most of the weaker characters whom you rarely see in tournaments).

The community does need leaders to bring this issue to light. If Mike and Tom did not have their head up their ass, they could address this issue, and most players would agree with them.

After playing Mortal Kombat 1 for 1377 hours, according to my PS5, the difference between offense and defense is comically lopsided. While I still enjoy playing the game, it retains issues that can easily be criticized.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Unless you can identify credible sources who are arguing that Mortal Kombat 1 was a success on release, this point is irrelevant one and a half years later.



I agree, which is why I would like to see more content for the game as well as more gameplay discussions and gameplay criticism of the game.

If you had wanted bring up actual irrelevant points, you should have told Mike to stop commenting on ugly women in the FGC and Tom to stop commenting on people's socioeconomic status and paycheck.

Aboslutely the focus should be on gameplay discussion and crticism rather then sensationalized a drama topics as you mentioned but alas its their youtube channels and they can make videos about whatever they want.

What do you mean its irrelevant unless theres people arguing that mk1 was a success on release?

The context of too little to late itself, isnt meant to combat or dissprove people saying it was a success or finished on release.

Its said to ( in combination with support ending) identify that even though there have been alot of very good changes that greatly improved the game, they in scale and the time frame it took to implement them dont do enough to offset the horrible launch.

If the support ends the game will be in this weird limbo state in which the games is much more fun and enjoyable but with still alot left to be desired and fixed, both as a product in total as well as the gameplay specifics and systems.

 

[M2Dave]

What do you mean its irrelevant unless theres people arguing that mk1 was a success on release?

Virtually everyone agrees that the game was lackluster on release and that improvements should have been implemented at a faster pace.

Obviously, the people who have stuck around tolerated the game's initial flaws. Likewise, the people who are contemplating purchasing and playing this game probably do not care what the game was like on release. They care about what the game is like now. Finally, if you are one of the people who has always disliked this game for one reason or another, why do you care a year and a half later?

Ranting about the game's previous issues therefore seems excessive, redundant, and unproductive, particularly when the current meta still leaves room for criticism. However, you have to play the game to accurately critique the current meta. Lots of people have quit playing, so some of them, namely Mike and Tom, resort to year-one criticism because they have nothing innovative to say.

Perhaps Tom does, though. He is now claiming that if Mortal Kombat 11 had not existed, Mortal Kombat 1 would have sold more copies and retained more players. To reiterate, I despise Mortal Kombat 11, but the game sold over 15 million copies, had over 1,500 participants at EVO 2019, and presently averages better numbers on Steam than its predecessors. So, should Mortal Kombat 11 not have had a positive impact on Mortal Kombat 1's release day? Clownish talking point.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

There is a large difference between the launch metas of things like strive and things like MK1.

Lao and Cyrax EVERYWHERE out of the gate is bad for the game. Strive took longer to find it's biggest issues, and responded to them much faster. Be it Sol, Nago, whatever. Arguably them slowing down and letting Chaos/Ram get away with things for so long hurt them, just like how MK suffered by having fucking everyone doing string into low hat (although strive also let hackers kick them in the teeth which was another issue).

It is 100% about variety and fun. If you tuned in for a strive stream, generally there was variety. If you decided to play a low tier, it was still fun. If you tuned into an mk1 stream, you likely saw mirrors and extremely similar styles of play, and if you decide to main a low tier, you mostly felt like your arms were broken.

The issues were much bigger than that, though.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1878237244445565078

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851490488131469428

A lot of players have been very vocal about not being happy with the overall meta and direction of the game. And in addition to that, there have been basic user experience issues for years that are just being fixed now 3-4 years in:

Right now the Tekken 8 community is unhappy with the state of their game, as is ithe SF6 community, and the Strive community. So I just think we should be honest about the fact that getting a new fighting to a good place often takes years.

 

[Trickywizard]

Mileena getting love I like it.
Low key want some Lao changes lol

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

So I just think we should be honest about the fact that getting a new fighting to a good place often takes years.

This is totally true, it just sucks that historically NRS games don’t get the long term support
the other games you mentioned do. I hope MK1 bucks that trend. I honestly am hopeful because WB has had a lot of missteps and bad investments so maybe they’ll allocate more resources to MK1.

Strive has definitely been in a weird place since season 3.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The fact that we don’t have training mode queue in 2025, when vanilla SF IV had it, is absolutely freaking insane

They could bring back Chess Kombat, and it still wouldn't be enough to excuse not having online lobbies and bottlenecking the entire PvP playerbase into the wifi-filterless Kombat League.

It is better in 2025? Absolutely.
Does it change anything? Absolutely not.

 

[Trickywizard]

If Quan gets buffed we are all fucked haha

 

[just_2swift]

Corny changes. The character is good as he is.

Balance adjustments for Kung Lao

Dismantle the 2121 string.

Take the 3rd hit (the elbow strike) make this his F1.
Add the chain fist at the end of 21. Make chain fist -7

Remove the armor off BF2. Allow the windmill punches on block, keep it unsafe (make it safe with a kameo ya know like he does now).

MB version is +2 on block with push back. Use the palm strike from the last hit of 2121 as the ender for MB BF2.

An additional spin added to Lao with DF1 input 7 frame start up. Pops up for combos and anti airs.

Also it would work in tandem with EX DU3 spin armor cancel. Allow 2in1 cancel into DF1 spin from DU3 ex cancel.

This would not be broken and will be a hard read into a just frame cancel which is death on block and costing a resource. This is ingenuity compared to EX BF-2 Goro and adds skill floor to the character. Think of a just frame link.

 

[Vulgar]

Balance adjustments for Kung Lao

Dismantle the 2121 string.

Take the 3rd hit (the elbow strike) make this his F1.
Add the chain fist at the end of 21. Make chain fist -7

Remove the armor off BF2. Allow the windmill punches on block, keep it unsafe (make it safe with a kameo ya know like he does now).

MB version is +2 on block with push back. Use the palm strike from the last hit of 2121 as the ender for MB BF2.

An additional spin added to Lao with DF1 input 7 frame start up. Pops up for combos and anti airs.

Also it would work in tandem with EX DU3 spin armor cancel. Allow 2in1 cancel into DF1 spin from DU3 ex cancel.

This would not be broken and will be a hard read into a just frame cancel which is death on block and costing a resource. This is ingenuity compared to EX BF-2 Goro and adds skill floor to the character. Think of a just frame link.

Corny changes. The character is good as he is.

 

[Jynks]

A lot of players have been very vocal about not being happy with the overall meta and direction of the game.

Right now the Tekken 8 community is unhappy with the state of their game, as is ithe SF6 community, and the Strive community.

So I just think we should be honest about the fact that getting a new fighting to a good place often takes years.

I hate fandoms... there is nothing worse than gamers. It annoys the fuck out of me that these loosers that represent such a tiny portion of the community get all the attention, as if their bullshit is gospel.

It is like a stand up comedian doing a show 5 times to 20,000 people and then 1 arsehole on twitter says it is offensive and then the entire narrative around them is about how offensive he was, even though 19,999 people had no issue.

Gaming companies, movie companies and the like need to STOP listening to their fans completely. The truth is lost. Welcome to the internet. They need to trust their own thoughts and make the games they want to make and completely ignore all the noise from fans.

'oh but my opinion is so important and worthwhile"... says someone... no. no it is not. Just shut up, play the game.... or not.

 

[Juggs]

I hate fandoms... there is nothing worse than gamers. It annoys the fuck out of me that these loosers that represent such a tiny portion of the community get all the attention, as if their bullshit is gospel.

It is like a stand up comedian doing a show 5 times to 20,000 people and then 1 arsehole on twitter says it is offensive and then the entire narrative around them is about how offensive he was, even though 19,999 people had no issue.

Gaming companies, movie companies and the like need to STOP listening to their fans completely. The truth is lost. Welcome to the internet. They need to trust their own thoughts and make the games they want to make and completely ignore all the noise from fans.

'oh but my opinion is so important and worthwhile"... says someone... no. no it is not. Just shut up, play the game.... or not.

Yeah that’s on the companies, devs, or whoever else, not the people expressing their opinions or criticisms. Especially if the feedback is actually leading to things being addressed or changed. Which NRS before the game even came out showed not only that they were willing to listen to feedback, they encouraged it by straight up asking for it before the game even came out with the beta and stress test. Which led to them making changes, again, before the game even launched. Which they were great changes imo. They added the ability to dash block (although not quite as effective as it was in MK9), and shortened how long some Kameo throw animations like Kano’s were. They may have made other changes before launch, but those were huge and the fact that it was done so publicly really made people like myself hopeful for MK1. It felt like they were turning over a new leaf with transparency and communication with the community. And they have done a great job with doing the same with MK1 after launch, but I do think it has come too late for an NRS game, as in it took too much time to “stabilize” the game competitively speaking. But hey, maybe I’m wrong and it’s not too late. And by “too late” I mean in regards to the competitive community and growing it. It’s hard to get new players, or players to return to a game, to play it competitively.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

@Juggs if they laid out plans for one or more years of support they could turn it around I think, especially if they implement those aforementioned qol changes to pvp. They could also release like dozens of Kitana skins to pay for it lol ala SFV chun

 

[Trickywizard]

@Juggs if they laid out plans for one or more years of support they could turn it around I think, especially if they implement those aforementioned qol changes to pvp. They could also release like dozens of Kitana skins to pay for it lol ala SFV chun

I’m ready for the next MK tbh.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Virtually everyone agrees that the game was lackluster on release and that improvements should have been implemented at a faster pace.

Obviously, the people who have stuck around tolerated the game's initial flaws. Likewise, the people who are contemplating purchasing and playing this game probably do not care what the game was like on release. They care about what the game is like now. Finally, if you are one of the people who has always disliked this game for one reason or another, why do you care a year and a half later?

Ranting about the game's previous issues therefore seems excessive, redundant, and unproductive, particularly when the current meta still leaves room for criticism. However, you have to play the game to accurately critique the current meta. Lots of people have quit playing, so some of them, namely Mike and Tom, resort to year-one criticism because they have nothing innovative to say.

Perhaps Tom does, though. He is now claiming that if Mortal Kombat 11 had not existed, Mortal Kombat 1 would have sold more copies and retained more players. To reiterate, I despise Mortal Kombat 11, but the game sold over 15 million copies, had over 1,500 participants at EVO 2019, and presently averages better numbers on Steam than its predecessors. So, should Mortal Kombat 11 not have had a positive impact on Mortal Kombat 1's release day? Clownish talking point.

What tom is trying to say is that mk11 fiasco burned out alot good will for nrs, so in essence if mk11 didnt happen people would be a little more likley to put up with mk1 issues on launch. But anyways mk11 and its sales is a whole differsnt can of worms, theres many reasons why it sold well even though its as you say one of the worst fighting games ever made, which i also agree with.

To get back on track, yes the current state of the game matters but even though the game is in a good state, there are still issues that persisted since launch. And yes some people tolerated them but that doesnt mean those issues are not relevant or that they dont impact the perception of the game by people looking to buy it cause they didnt at launch as well as by people looking to get back into the game. Just because i tolerated there not being customisation slots at launch doesnt mean it not being there 1 and a half year later is still ok and that it doesnt impact the games quality.

And this is compunded by the games Support , by all indications, ending. You think someone who decided to not buy it is going to be super jazzed to now buy the game when the game support is ending and the game still has issues lingering from launch? Knowing no more improvments will be made, no more new content will be relased.

I get that you want to judge and focus on the current state of the game and it may be most fun version of the game but the level of changes made that make us who already phurchaesd feel like its decently enjoyable to play now are not the ones needed to massivley swing people who didnt buy it to now start buying. 1 year and a half in mkx and mk 11 were at 9 and 10 million sales respectively, mk1 just barely hit 5.

As for me, i played the game throught its versions, liking the system changes that fixed horrible mk11 aspects( break away, cooldown meter, a million wake up options etc, you catch my drift) as well as a much better gameplay combo system seeing its potential despite the quirks and raw nature. Its not like i dropped the game week 1 and im now commenting on year 1.5 state of it.

 

[just_2swift]

Do away with fatal blows give everyone dragon install (pun intended). It's more emersive and dynamic. Then just bring back 3 bar X-rays and allow us to use breaker on them. Im looking forward to the patch notes!

Haven't been this excited since the XL update!

 

[Trickywizard]

Do away with fatal blows give everyone dragon install (pun intended). It's more emersive and dynamic. Then just bring back 3 bar X-rays and allow us to use breaker on them. Im looking forward to the patch notes!

Haven't been this excited since the XL update!

MKX was fun the first 6 months then we quickly realized how shit of a game that was lol

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

MKX was fun the first 6 months then we quickly realized how shit of a game that was lol

Hey, MKX was a really cool entry and was my favorite from NRS until they launched MK1. To be honest, the only MK from NRS I dislike the gameplay was MK11, everything else has been enjoyable in its own way.

 

[Vulgar]

Do away with fatal blows give everyone dragon install (pun intended). It's more emersive and dynamic. Then just bring back 3 bar X-rays and allow us to use breaker on them. Im looking forward to the patch notes!

Haven't been this excited since the XL update!

Nah. It's better as a character-specific tool. Homogenous design is ass for a fighting game.

 

[Trickywizard]

Hey, MKX was a really cool entry and was my favorite from NRS until they launched MK1. To be honest, the only MK from NRS I dislike the gameplay was MK11, everything else has been enjoyable in its own way.

Unreactable plus on block 5050s for 50-60% damage into standing vortex.
Mindless pressure weak defense.
Fuck up un anti airable jump ins etc etc

 

[just_2swift]

Nah. It's better as a character-specific tool. Homogenous design is ass for a fighting game.

But the dragon installs are a character specific tool... Anyways you're going to have to deal with it cause they're coming for every character so I guess MK1 will be ass in your eyes.

 

[Trickywizard]

Support the community guyz