Tech - High Tech Ground Smash usability ( new mix-up gameplay )

[Cosmos]

You get more damage without the 212 OTG.

56% off overhead
56% of s1
60% off low
62% of s3


Gonna have to disagree here, she'd only be broken if they buffed her tools excessively, or buffed her with something stupid (eg. flame fist-esque cancels). People are acting like she's just 'one buff' away from OP. This is not the case unless the devs do something outrageous, lbsh. It's like claiming Jason is one buff away from being OP, sure if the buff is something stupid, but otherwise no.


If they buffed her f2, her db1, and fixed her 4u4, she'd be much better but not OP. I'd be happy to even take a nerf to her lv. 1 df2 plus frames if it means she can actually do something in half her matchups. Once they fix her fundamental tools, it's unlikely she'll be broken, just kinda very good (think D'Vorah level).

Is there a reason for your preference to f2 over f12? Just curious as in high tech, I would have assumed f12 is the better tool unless there's something i'm missing aha

 

[ArmedCalf]

You get more damage but like Eldriken said, you can just tech roll the df2 can't you? The 212 ender is literally inescapable if you do it right.

 

[stosn]

Its the same dmg for enders with bf4 or OTG after 212.
About combo in the video : OTG after df2 is unescapable if you dont tech roll immediately. So its work like gimmick

 

[SM StarGazer]

This is the issue though, is anybody actually going to get the chance to do this and be unstoppable?

I'm not sold that High Tech will ever be that good in tournament for the pure fact that she can't get close enough or be in any good enough situation to do anything. I'm not downplaying in any way. I'm 100% prepared to be wrong.

I'm strongly getting the impression High Tech has the advanced/next level tools for a character to be great in MKX, but lacks the fundamental tools that allow her to apply them.

I agree. It will speak volumes for the player that plays her at a tornament level. I'd say they would be the best player in the world.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Is there a reason for your preference to f2 over f12? Just curious as in high tech, I would have assumed f12 is the better tool unless there's something i'm missing aha

f2 is more balanced.

f12 is +2 while f2u2~du4 is -4. You can cancel it into the final hit to make it plus but there's a gap.

It's just overall more fair.

Also, gotta think how it affects full auto and shotgun too.

 

[Cosmos]

f2 is more balanced.

f12 is +2 while f2u2~du4 is -4. You can cancel it into the final hit to make it plus but there's a gap.

It's just overall more fair.

Also, gotta think how it affects full auto and shotgun too.

This is where my confusion stems, whilst yes f2u2 is a great move and has applications in all 3 variations, isn't it still outclassed by f12 in every aspect?

High tech f12 can be qbrc'd into jailed stagger pressure on block and launches on hit.
Shotgun it launches.
Full auto if there wasn't hitbox inconsistencies all over the place it would consistently jail into uprocket on block and launch on hit.

F12 by itself is as you said +2 on block and advances further than f2 so is a stronger whiff punishing tool.

I appreciate f2u2 has a different use in baiting meter spend however I can't help but feel in neutral f12 is the stronger tool.

 

[Rip Torn]

This is where my confusion stems, whilst yes f2u2 is a great move and has applications in all 3 variations, isn't it still outclassed by f12 in every aspect?

High tech f12 can be qbrc'd into jailed stagger pressure on block and launches on hit.
Shotgun it launches.
Full auto if there wasn't hitbox inconsistencies all over the place it would consistently jail into uprocket on block and launch on hit.

F12 by itself is as you said +2 on block and advances further than f2 so is a stronger whiff punishing tool.

I appreciate f2u2 has a different use in baiting meter spend however I can't help but feel in neutral f12 is the stronger tool.

He's agreeing with you. He's saying if they buffed f12 it might become too strong with her pressure. I don't think she'll ever be OP unless they decide to give her a decent wakeup on top of numerous other buffs.

 

[Cosmos]

He's agreeing with you. He's saying if they buffed f12 it might become too strong with her pressure. I don't think she'll ever be OP unless they decide to give her a decent wakeup on top of numerous other buffs.

I see aha I thought the point he was trying to make was that f2 buffs would be more balanced in regards to all 3 variations over f12, my mistake.

I don't see how making f12 a few frames faster solely on startup would make it op though. Under the assumption they remove a few plus frames from level 1 qb of course.

I agree with you there, she would need a fair amount of buffs to get to the point where she starts becoming very overwhelming.

 

[SaltShaker]

She's a training mode god, but not so much in reality.

Just making sure everyone understands.

 

[scarsunseen]

ji2 jails into dd4?? I thought both of her jip's jailed only if you hit them rather close to ground. I know there's definitely a gap if you do ji1-dd4 if you hit ji1 at max height.

edit: Just tested it. Both JIP's to DD4 jail ONLY if you hit the JIP low on their hit box. If you hit either JIP's high on their hitbox, there's gap for an armored reversal.

 

[sn_meruem]

bf4 not much plus as df2, so you cant do this setup ( instant dd4 ). And bf4 took too much time and buff may end.

Oh right that makes sense, I'm struggling with instant airs any tips?

 

[stosn]

Oh right that makes sense, I'm struggling with instant airs any tips?

hold down on analog ( if you using DS4 ) and on d-pad press up down 4, and this is all you need )

 

[sn_meruem]

hold down on analog ( if you using DS4 ) and on d-pad press up down 4, and this is all you need )

Ok cheers I'll try it

 

[sn_meruem]

hold down on analog ( if you using DS4 ) and on d-pad press up down 4, and this is all you need )

So I've just tried to do it, I'm holding down on the analog whilst pressing up, down 4 on the d-pad. Majority of the time I'm just getting a NJK but the Ground pound did come out sometimes. Hmm seems tricky.

 

[st9rm]

your videos are amazing as always @stosn
if you entered tournaments, you would rek shit with jacquie

 

[Pan1cMode]

I see aha I thought the point he was trying to make was that f2 buffs would be more balanced in regards to all 3 variations over f12, my mistake.

I don't see how making f12 a few frames faster solely on startup would make it op though. Under the assumption they remove a few plus frames from level 1 qb of course.

I agree with you there, she would need a fair amount of buffs to get to the point where she starts becoming very overwhelming.

I also, just generally like f2 better than f1 hahaha. Benefits of f2 over f1:

- better meter baiting potential
- safe 50/50 (albeit one you can armour through if read)
- f2 jails to s1 same as f12
- Muuuuch easier to convert off (have you tried converting off f12~QBRC midscreen? It's a nightmare!)
- increased midscreen damage due to greater consistency in 1, f2u2 links


There are other reasons as well such as a fast, +2, forward advancing, launching string without any gaps to armour through seeming too good. Also, NRS have already buffed f2 before, it makes sense for them to continue with their previous idea and buff it again.

I don't think she needs a fair amount of buffs to become OP if I'm honest. It wouldn't be too hard for them to buff the wrong thing and make her OP (for example giving her db2 cancels) but I think she needs a few small buffs to become reasonably competitive (thinking around the level of D'Vorah).

- faster advancing string (my preference is of course f2)
- faster reflect (db1 being same as Kotal's frame wise)
- more consistent 4u4 input (preferably just u4)
- a useful armour attack (my preference for high tech would be to give ex df2 a hit of armour) [my overall preference for all of Jacqui's variations would be to make ex bf2 15 frames startup and -12 on block with significant pushback]

 

[Cosmos]

I also, just generally like f2 better than f1 hahaha. Benefits of f2 over f1:

- better meter baiting potential
- safe 50/50 (albeit one you can armour through if read)
- f2 jails to s1 same as f12
- Muuuuch easier to convert off (have you tried converting off f12~QBRC midscreen? It's a nightmare!)
- increased midscreen damage due to greater consistency in 1, f2u2 links


There are other reasons as well such as a fast, +2, forward advancing, launching string without any gaps to armour through seeming too good. Also, NRS have already buffed f2 before, it makes sense for them to continue with their previous idea and buff it again.

I don't think she needs a fair amount of buffs to become OP if I'm honest. It wouldn't be too hard for them to buff the wrong thing and make her OP (for example giving her db2 cancels) but I think she needs a few small buffs to become reasonably competitive (thinking around the level of D'Vorah).

- faster advancing string (my preference is of course f2)
- faster reflect (db1 being same as Kotal's frame wise)
- more consistent 4u4 input (preferably just u4)
- a useful armour attack (my preference for high tech would be to give ex df2 a hit of armour) [my overall preference for all of Jacqui's variations would be to make ex bf2 15 frames startup and -12 on block with significant pushback]

Yeah I appreciate the armour bait is there which is always useful.
I prefer conditioning with qbrc's into jailed 1212 stagger then going for 50/50's but that's obviously personal preference.
Yeah I swear midscreen f12xxqbrc 1 is a just frame aha
It just feels like considering all the buffs it has already received, it's unlikely to get further buffed aha.
I think I need to start using f2 more in neutral to be honest as i'm pretty relient on b14 s4/4u4 and f12 at the moment.

F12 isn't that fast though 15f so gets beat out by an awful lot of pokes and just generally quicker strings. I find myself having to use it solely for whiff punishing rather than an actual footsie tool alot of the time.
It sounds ridiculous on paper but so does Jacqui in general, I honestly don't think it would be as strong a tool as it sounds.
It would just give her a tool to compete with most of the cast in neutral which she desperately needs in High Tech and Full Auto.

I never even thought about a db2 cancel that would be pretty ridiculous if she gained a charge and could continue to combo from the cancel....

I love the sound of all of your buffs aswell aha especially faster startup on db1.
The only buff of your's i'm concerned about is if you gave exbf2 a significant amount of pushback at only -12 paired with her walkspeed I think it could be a bit too strong.
Realistically it's a safe armoured wakeup that if people tried to punish you would likely be whiff punishing their attempt due to the pushback you are asking for. Outside of slides and exspin I can't think of many who would be able to contend with it.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Yeah I appreciate the armour bait is there which is always useful.
I prefer conditioning with qbrc's into jailed 1212 stagger then going for 50/50's but that's obviously personal preference.
Yeah I swear midscreen f12xxqbrc 1 is a just frame aha
It just feels like considering all the buffs it has already received, it's unlikely to get further buffed aha.
I think I need to start using f2 more in neutral to be honest as i'm pretty relient on b14 s4/4u4 and f12 at the moment.

F12 isn't that fast though 15f so gets beat out by an awful lot of pokes and just generally quicker strings. I find myself having to use it solely for whiff punishing rather than an actual footsie tool alot of the time.
It sounds ridiculous on paper but so does Jacqui in general, I honestly don't think it would be as strong a tool as it sounds.
It would just give her a tool to compete with most of the cast in neutral which she desperately needs in High Tech and Full Auto.

I never even thought about a db2 cancel that would be pretty ridiculous if she gained a charge and could continue to combo from the cancel....

I love the sound of all of your buffs aswell aha especially faster startup on db1.
The only buff of your's i'm concerned about is if you gave exbf2 a significant amount of pushback at only -12 paired with her walkspeed I think it could be a bit too strong.
Realistically it's a safe armoured wakeup that if people tried to punish you would likely be whiff punishing their attempt due to the pushback you are asking for. Outside of slides and exspin I can't think of many who would be able to contend with it.

You could still armour break it, jump over it or bait it like any other reversal. It also doesn't launch and only provides +20 so it's not like she gets anything super significant off it. When compared to other character's armour, it's honestly still at the lower end of the spectrum. The only characters I can think of with still worse armour would be Shinnok (non bone shaper), D'Vorah, Sonya and Quan (non warlock) all who have much better options than Jacqui does anyways.

 

[Cosmos]

You could still armour break it, jump over it or bait it like any other reversal. It also doesn't launch and only provides +20 so it's not like she gets anything super significant off it. When compared to other character's armour, it's honestly still at the lower end of the spectrum. The only characters I can think of with still worse armour would be Shinnok (non bone shaper), D'Vorah, Sonya and Quan (non warlock) all who have much better options than Jacqui does anyways.

Baiting wouldn't really achieve anything with the buffs you suggest. I was thinking purely in terms of on block, obviously on wakeup it's no different to most wakeups on the game aha

 

[Pan1cMode]

Baiting wouldn't really achieve anything with the buffs you suggest. I was thinking purely in terms of on block, obviously on wakeup it's no different to most wakeups on the game aha

The characters in this game with armour that is safer/as safe as what I'm proposing are:
- Jax
- Kenshi
- Kitana
- Mileena
- Reptile
- Jason
- Johnny Cage
- Sub Zero
- Takeda
- Cassie
- Kung Jin
- Tanya
- Kano
- Liu Kang
- Ermac
- Raiden
- Goro
- Tremor

Really, it doesn't seem like too much to ask.

 

[Cosmos]

The characters in this game with armour that is safer/as safe as what I'm proposing are:
- Jax
- Kenshi
- Kitana
- Mileena
- Reptile
- Jason
- Johnny Cage
- Sub Zero
- Takeda
- Cassie
- Kung Jin
- Tanya
- Kano
- Liu Kang
- Ermac
- Raiden
- Goro
- Tremor

Really, it doesn't seem like too much to ask.

No i'm in agreement she needs better armour aha I just don't think she'd need significant pushback alongside it if you were to make it -12.

 

[Pan1cMode]

No i'm in agreement she needs better armour aha I just don't think she'd need significant pushback alongside it if you were to make it -12.

And I'm saying that all those characters listed have armour moves that are as safe (negativity and pushback taken into account) as what I'm proposing.

 

[stosn]

Our save armor is x-ray
and its jail on block into s1

 

[Ecodus]

Thanks for the tag @stosn cool stuff.

Too bad the discussion in this thread is more about buffs and crap than how to go about implementing her OTG.

Does then j2 jail into the ex ground pound at any height, or do you have to be pretty deep?

 

[Pan1cMode]

Thanks for the tag @stosn cool stuff.

Too bad the discussion in this thread is more about buffs and crap than how to go about implementing her OTG.

Does then j2 jail into the ex ground pound at any height, or do you have to be pretty deep?

Only at the deepest jump.