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Tech Green Arrow vortex w/ frozen arrow. Add safe pressure/Bait wake-ups

Gaiden

Injustice
Some things u just have to pushblock or take the final hit.

If GA needed any buffs at all. It'd be in his strings startup/damage and his DB2 hitbox issues, not his jab. Buffing GA's jab can go wrong very quickly.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Some things u just have to pushblock or take the final hit.

If GA needed any buffs at all. It'd be in his strings startup/damage and his DB2 hitbox issues, not his jab. Buffing GA's jab can go wrong very quickly.

String start up? Standing 1 is the start of his 11 strings... lol.

I don't really see how buffing it to two frames faster will mess things up. It doesn't have much range and the second hit wiffs crouching opponents at a fairly short range. It also hits high, so opponents kan D1 out of it.

But actually, maybe they should just nerf Supes by 1 frame. 9 frame F2 doesn't sound bad.
 

Gaiden

Injustice
What are you talking about? When did i ever mention standing 1 startup?

I said It'd be "in his strings startup/damage". Not, "in his Standing 1 string startup/damage".

I was more talking about his B13 string having a faster startup leading to a free B13-Load arrow on D1 hit. And also his F2 having faster startup so its guaranteed on every character and no only some after a D1 hit.

The damage portion i mentioned would be in his F2D13 string where it would be 2-3% higher instead of 10% damage for his only viable string.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
What are you talking about? When did i ever mention standing 1 startup?

I said It'd be "in his strings startup/damage". Not, "in his Standing 1 string startup/damage".

I was more talking about his B21 string having a faster startup leading to a free B21-Load arrow on D1 hit. And also his F2 having faster startup so its guaranteed on every character and no only some after a D1 hit.

The damage portion i mentioned would be in his F2D13 string where it would be 2-3% higher instead of 10% damage for his only viable string.

I mentioned standing jab and you said he only need buffs on his strings... But 1 1 3 starts with his standing jab so it IS a string.... That was my point.

B2 and F2 don't need to be faster. Buffing that would change him much more drastically than buffing his standing 1.

I also don't think F2D13 is his only viable string B2 works well in footsies and 223 works well up klose especially if you have an Ice Arrow so you kan do 224 instead. After D1 do 22 instead if they like to poke.
 

Gaiden

Injustice
Buffing his standing 1's startup would not fix GA's main issues since his standing 1 is duckable, and the 113 string is pretty useless. His issues are that his actual useful strings get beaten by better numbers on stronger characters. Buffing B1 and F2's startup or increased hit advantage on D1 are the buffs he needs. (I said B21 last post, was my bad. I meant B1 and F2 should be guaranteed unless backdashed after a D1 hit).
 

Roko1985

Put down the controller and run!
I am using similar vortex against people who can't wake up. What I do is after the stock arrow, I go for 223 and then holding the arrow standing. Then crouch or jump release for low/overhead mix up. Back dash cancel if you think that they will wake up the punisher. It depends of the matchup!
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
After it was mentioned by Gaiden that GA had a true vortex in the corner I tried to find out what it is. Honestly I have no idea how it works but I've been trying to figure it out. I figured it would have something to do with electric arrows because they give you stagger and you can't really follow up with anything besides b3 from mid screen because of how far they get pushed back. Also I figured the only string that could even lead to a vortex is f2d13 because it's the only one you can really get a 50/50 going off of. The problem is if you do f2d1 electric arrow you just get that small damage and go back into f2 whatever. You get 2 electric arrows so if you manage to get them with the overhead at the end before you run out you can get more damage but it's still low. Also because you need to do a string in order to get the 50/50 going it can just be push blocked.

I'm not sure what the vortex is but this is all I came up with... You can also add in shit like B13 low/jump arrow or dash cancel.


I call it the fake corner vortex. As far as I know a true vortex is something that puts you in a situation where your only option is to guess to escape. In GA's case I can't find a single situation where that's the case, mostly due to pushblock.

I'm only posting it to see if other people can try to experiment with this concept to come up with something that works well.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Buffing his standing 1's startup would not fix GA's main issues since his standing 1 is duckable, and the 113 string is pretty useless. His issues are that his actual useful strings get beaten by better numbers on stronger characters. Buffing B1 and F2's startup or increased hit advantage on D1 are the buffs he needs. (I said B21 last post, was my bad. I meant B1 and F2 should be guaranteed unless backdashed after a D1 hit).
That was my main point.. It's not to change his gameplan. I think he does well, and right now it just means that he has to make reads if he hits an opponent with a D1.

Changing his standing 1 mostly just does one thing and that is, giving him one option against Supes. One that kan still be baited.. Having that option allows for a thinking situation against him.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Premium Supporter
GGA Dizzy made me aware of the bugged wake up mechanic in this game where you actually can't do wake up attacks if you are meing hit by a meaty after a hard knock down. I tested this with Green Arrow, and it actually looks like the "vortex" mentioned here leads in to this kind of knock down if you do a meaty d1.

In this video I demonstrate this by having Grundy mashing 4+MB on turbo, and as you can see he does not get to wake up attack.
 
your combo is interesting. ist it b+3 dash up arrow d+2xxdb+4 223 (4) ? I do b+3 dash d+2xxdf+4 223 (4) but this is very dependant from the opponents hitbox.

"otg"

is grundys wake up full invincible on wake up? Have you testet it on KF´s slide? I think it could be more representative for your new tech.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Premium Supporter
your combo is interesting. ist it b+3 dash up arrow d+2xxdb+4 223 (4) ? I do b+3 dash d+2xxdf+4 223 (4) but this is very dependant from the opponents hitbox.

"otg"

is grundys wake up full invincible on wake up? Have you testet it on KF´s slide? I think it could be more representative for your new tech.

Yea I do: b3, dash, db1, d2 xx db4, 223 xx 4 (hold), dash, d1

If done correctly this is impossible to wake up attack against. It seems d1 will hit/get blocked by the opponent 1 frame before he can attack. Killer frost won't be able to slide this if it's done correctly!
 
i´ve tested your combo. i can´t connect 223 properly I only hit 2. Should grind it a bit more. The problem with this setup, D2 scales too hard. I only use it sometimes with instant overhead arrow for a reset. My setup deals 17% from a frozen state. Yours? maybe 19% or 20%
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Premium Supporter
The d2 is necessary if you want to stock an ice arrow for pressure, and it's not that important since GA doesn't do good mid screen damage anyway. The clue to hitting the 223 in the juggle is to do it later than you think. The combo in the video above does 24%, but you probably won't land raw b3's often, so expect heavy scaling from a frozen arrow too (Which is why I don't combo the loaded ice arrow in the video, as you won't be able to freeze with this combo 90% of the time)