What's new

Tech Green Arrow vortex w/ frozen arrow. Add safe pressure/Bait wake-ups

|| Syrnia

Siiren's Servant;Burns The Midnight Oil
While messing around with GA, I found that you can stock a frozen arrow after a B3 ff xx D2 xx Df4. Using this knowledge I was able to come up with a vortex useful for safe pressure and wake-up game. I will also explain a bit about why the motion for frozen arrow is reversed and the vortex itself. The reason for this is that while doing the forward dash the enemy will be above your head but slightly behind you. When doing the D2 the inputs will reverse; therefore, causing it to be Df4. Make sure to cancel the D2 into Df4 as fast as you can. I will add the full combo after, but first the next step.

So now you have your stocked arrow but what do you do? After it's stocked use the 223 string to enter the hard knockdown state. You still have time to do this string after stocking the frozen arrow so don't rush it.

Utilizing what we know about GAs trait: you are able to dash cancel at the start of release. What happens when you end a combo with a hard knockdown and are able to dash cancel after? Well it's simple. One of three things will happen: either you dash cancel it at the perfect frame, you will stay holding the arrow or you will accidentally release the arrow before dashing. You don't want the second or third option, obviously, so practicing your dash cancelling is a must.

Now for the real meat of the vortex. Using the dash cancel technique with GAs trait, you are able to apply full pressure or bait any wake-ups that your opponent tries to throw at you. Now I can't guarantee that its 100% earned but you must understand the match-up and your opponent for this to fully be useful. Continuing on with the vortex. Once you have dash cancelled the trait, you have a few choices of strings that are needed for this vortex to take place.

Here are the strings: B1,3/B2,3/F2,D1,3

With these strings you have many options on how to control you opponent when he/she wakes up. While there are three strings, I recommend using only the second and third string. The reason for this is that B1,3 is all mid. You have way more options with B2,3 and F2,D1,3 to be settling on B1,3, but I'm sure it will have its uses. It is also +15 on block.

B2,3 is a very good string to go to after dash cancelling for good reason: starts as overhead and forces opponent to block standing, able to cancel into frozen arrow for a high/low mixup and is +15 on block leaving you at a good advantage against an opponent. This string will be useful in helping keep pressure and opening up people in general.

Last but certainly not least is his F2,D1,3 string which is very deadly and is highly recommended for its multiple uses. First, this string alone is very hard to block if the opponent is not aware of it or is caught sleeping. Second reason for why this string is deadly is the fact that you have a frozen arrow at the ready should the time come. This creates more mind games by allowing you to toy with them using the arrow for a plethora of high/lows or end with a DB2 for safe pressure. This string is +1 on block but can be made safer by using arrow(+3), or DB2.

Now the examples I'm about to give you with this string are very deadly and may lead to death should the opponent not no how to avoid the vortex. Remember to have an ice arrow stocked. Use them wisely lol

113 starter:
- 113 xx frozen arrow xx B3 xx ff xx D2 (almost instantly) xx Df4 xx 223 (slight delay) <- hard knockdown xx 4 xx ff xx F2,D1,3 ~ end with frozen arrow, crouching arrow after D1 for double low, jump back Df arrow for double overhead.

B2 starter:
- B2 xx arrow xx B3 ~ repeat the above till hard knockdown and mix it with B2,3 ender after dash cancelling. After B2,3 ender you may use the stocked frozen arrow for B2 xx low arrow or B2, 3 xx low arrow.

JI3 starter:
- JI3 xx D1 xx ice arrow xx B3~ repeat with ender of choosing. Now with this starter your timing is stricter on the 223 xx 4 xx dash cancel so you must be quick and precise in order for this to work.

D1 starter: Great for punishes
- D1 xx arrow xx B3 ~ repeat with ender of choosing. Pretty standard for a punish but if used correctly can lead to great damage.

Note*

When attempting to bait a wake-up the general rule of thumb is: dash cancel and jump for a punish depending on the character or blocking. Learning the match up and your opponent is critical for this to have any real results.

That's it for the vortex people. Since this is my first time posting a thread I would like any and all feedback to see if this worked for you or have found it interesting and have read all I had to say. So thank you for keeping in there and learning some new tech which I found by messing with GA ;)
 

LEGEND

YES!
Premium Supporter
i'm not sure if i'm understanding this correctly. Whats the advantage to doing this over a combo that does 10% more and has the same knockdown advantage? You don't need an arrow ready to bait wake-ups
-
After looking at it alittle more i do see its use. Like you said , this is more MU specific. this is definitely going to help pressure GL on kncokdown, Good stuff man
 
Nice!

Are you able to upload a video on YouTube? I would like to see this in action.
My execution is not that great, I've tried following your steps and will continue to do so.

In the meantime, would be nice to see all the variations you posted.
 

|| Syrnia

Siiren's Servant;Burns The Midnight Oil
Currently I do not have the equipment to do so. I understand that it might be a little difficult at first so please wait till I have the resources to post how its done and its uses. ;)
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Premium Supporter
I might record some of these set ups, but I'll have to record the screen since I don't have the ability to do screen capture. Also I was wondering if you can end the combo with Stinger after the b3 and dash up to get the same pressure?

I found the b3, d2 xx df4 a couple of weeks ago and made a video about it on the forum, but I find that you have to be around point blank when doing b3 to avoid getting electric arrows. I therefor started to do b3, dash, sky alert, d2 xx db4. You can still do the 223 after this, but it is a little harder. Since I don't find this very consistent yet, I was wondering if I could do b3, dash, sky alert, d2 xx db4, 111 xx stinger, and then dash up to continue pressure. This would be more consistent and do more damage, as well as push them further towards the corner and avoid the timing for the arrow cancel out of the 223 string (Even though that isn't a big problem)

Edit: Chompcombo: You need the ice arrow to land a new b3, so it isn't possible to get the "vortex" from the other arrows.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I wouldn't confuse this for a vortex, just sounds like knockdown set ups.
If I'm reading the first post correctly, the main point of the set ups is to end with 223~arrow dash cancel for better follow ups?

I'll mess with this some tomorrow :) Ending combos with 113 also seems to work well against certain characters. It puts you outside the range of a lot of wakeups so you'll be able to sit back & react to how your opponent gets up.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Premium Supporter
The reason why you can call this a vortex is that you end up in the same situation with an ice arrow stocked if your opponent guesses wrong. This will put you in a possition to mix up the opponent all over again, and land the same combo that leads to the exact same situation again if you successfully mix up your opponent. The reason why it isn't such a legit vortex, however, is the lack of mix ups. A good vortex should be able to mix up the opponent in a lot of different ways and still get the same outcome (high/low/in front/crossup/throw). This "vortex" only mix up with high low (But a great high low mix up at that), or maybe MB b3 to beat wake up moves (Or jump and punish).
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
The reason why you can call this a vortex is that you end up in the same situation with an ice arrow stocked if your opponent guesses wrong. This will put you in a possition to mix up the opponent all over again, and land the same combo that leads to the exact same situation again if you successfully mix up your opponent. The reason why it isn't such a legit vortex, however, is the lack of mix ups. A good vortex should be able to mix up the opponent in a lot of different ways and still get the same outcome (high/low/in front/crossup/throw). This "vortex" only mix up with high low (But a great high low mix up at that), or maybe MB b3 to beat wake up moves (Or jump and punish).
I think most people from MK understood a vortex as a 50/50 that you're forced to block and both options lead back to the same situation, like the one Killer Frost has. The opponent isn't forced to block anything here since they can wakeup, and GA doesn't really have a 50/50. I think the term vortex might be used differently in other games/communities.

I'm pretty much seeing this particular set up as another way to position yourself to potentially deal with wakeups better. (Unless I'm missing something from his posts so far).
 

|| Syrnia

Siiren's Servant;Burns The Midnight Oil
I think most people from MK understood a vortex as a 50/50 that you're forced to block and both options lead back to the same situation, like the one Killer Frost has. The opponent isn't forced to block anything here since they can wakeup, and GA doesn't really have a 50/50. I think the term vortex might be used differently in other games/communities.

I'm pretty much seeing this particular set up as another way to position yourself to potentially deal with wakeups better. (Unless I'm missing something from his posts so far).
You are correct. As GA does not have a restand other than ice arrow,and doesn't' have "true" 50/50 unlike other characters, this can be seen as nothing more than an oki setup. The reason I would call this a "vortex" has to do with the fact that there's no need to restock an arrow after a hard knockdown allowing you to have more freedom to continue pressure or re-assess the situation and play from there. I was not an avid MK player so if my use of "vortex" in this sense is wrong I apologize.

After playing around with it more I noticed that if you do use this "vortex" setup correctly, the opponents life could be at least 40-45% gone in seconds . I do know that the damage is slightly lower than the standard B3 jump3 223, but for me I would rather have a safe mixup and an arrow stocked instantly for continued pressure. You can think of this as another option to the standard combo if you choose. At the end of the day its the person that best uses the characters tools anyways so if you find something that works wouldn't you use it? Just my opinion but I appreciate all the feedback so thank you.
 

BiuTze

Noob
When I try to restock the IceArrow after the D2 I do the Savage Blast instead like 90% of the time... i generally have some issues with negative edge in this game! Does anybody have some tips on how to overcome that? I tried some things like holding down the attack buttons or the directional buttons for a longer time and stuff like that but nothing seems to really work! any help would be much appreciated :D
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
When I try to restock the IceArrow after the D2 I do the Savage Blast instead like 90% of the time... i generally have some issues with negative edge in this game! Does anybody have some tips on how to overcome that? I tried some things like holding down the attack buttons or the directional buttons for a longer time and stuff like that but nothing seems to really work! any help would be much appreciated :D
Turn release check off :)
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Premium Supporter
Dash cancel online isn't a problem for me. The problem is that it's impossible to time the 223 online so most of the time either all of it misses or the 3 misses:/
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
This is kinda low damage but wouldn't it work as a vortex? F2d1 low ice arrow, load arrow f2d13 low ice arrow, load arrow, f2d1 low ice arrow, load arrow f2d13 overhead ice arrow rinse and repeat.

Edit

Lol i just started using this shit online and its great. nobody does push block.
 

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
113 starter:
- 113 xx frozen arrow xx B3 xx ff xx D2 (almost instantly) xx Df4 xx 223 (slight delay) <- hard knockdown xx 4 xx ff xx F2,D1,3 ~ end with frozen arrow, crouching arrow after D1 for double low, jump back Df arrow for double overhead.
sorry this is a noob question but how is electric arrow useful if they are hard knockdown? I tried this combo and don't know what to do after the hard knockdown.
 

|| Syrnia

Siiren's Servant;Burns The Midnight Oil
sorry this is a noob question but how is electric arrow useful if they are hard knockdown? I tried this combo and don't know what to do after the hard knockdown.
Well the Df4 if done correctly should give you another ice arrow not an electric arrow. When doing the Df2 the inputs change since the opponent is behind you; therefore, it is Df4. Also after the hard knockdown you should cancel the last hit to 4 and dash cancel it. After the dash cancel go for any of the three strings I outlined and work on your own setups from there. Hope this helps;)
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
All are gimmicks and all of these can be blocked fuzzy or with just simple knowledge of his strings. He has no true mix ups. If youre knocked down. F2d13 and b23 are the options. Block high. Then low. Then high. Then just block the arrow mixup. Its not hard. Bottom tier character. I feel dumb for even picking him up. People get hit by the gimmicks if they dont know the string. Give them 15 mins to actually look at him and recognize the strings and everything ga does is useless. He cant zone at a decent level becauee normal arrows are trash and you get 2 elct arrows to lose most trades in damage and fire arrows barely break even with most other projectiles. Take this into account. So now youre sitting here with a character you have to work to get in with and then hope to win with low damage midscreen. Gimmick strings and a reset that youre blowing every bit of meter for. Final decision. Garbage character. Pig Of The Hut told me to never drop this character. But he is just complete trash in every which way. Once people know how to fight him. Chris g will only be using black adam. I actually dropped this game as of today after ect5. It was a joke. Ga gets walked all over and along with the many other complaints I have but whatever. I should have picked an actual gimmick character who isnt bottom 5
 

Chakk dizzle

That's baaaaane
All are gimmicks and all of these can be blocked fuzzy or with just simple knowledge of his strings. He has no true mix ups. If youre knocked down. F2d13 and b23 are the options. Block high. Then low. Then high. Then just block the arrow mixup. Its not hard. Bottom tier character. I feel dumb for even picking him up. People get hit by the gimmicks if they dont know the string. Give them 15 mins to actually look at him and recognize the strings and everything ga does is useless. He cant zone at a decent level becauee normal arrows are trash and you get 2 elct arrows to lose most trades in damage and fire arrows barely break even with most other projectiles. Take this into account. So now youre sitting here with a character you have to work to get in with and then hope to win with low damage midscreen. Gimmick strings and a reset that youre blowing every bit of meter for. Final decision. Garbage character. Pig Of The Hut told me to never drop this character. But he is just complete trash in every which way. Once people know how to fight him. Chris g will only be using black adam. I actually dropped this game as of today after ect5. It was a joke. Ga gets walked all over and along with the many other complaints I have but whatever. I should have picked an actual gimmick character who isnt bottom 5
You can add a low to almost any of his strings with a d4 cancel, and with an ice arrow loaded that goes a long way. That alone gives him mixup potential without even taking into account anything else. Yes you can fuzzy guard the instant overhead/d1 mixup but you mean to tell me that someone will always guard this correctly? If that were the case instant overheads would be useless for any character, which is not the case.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
You can add a low to almost any of his strings with a d4 cancel, and with an ice arrow loaded that goes a long way. That alone gives him mixup potential without even taking into account anything else. Yes you can fuzzy guard the instant overhead/d1 mixup but you mean to tell me that someone will always guard this correctly? If that were the case instant overheads would be useless for any character, which is not the case.
Play him against people that know the character and you will understand 7L, i agree with him. and so what if you do get an Ice arrow off every now and then, you get shit all for damage.

He will fall to bottom very fast. I'm pissed that I picked him as well.
 

Chakk dizzle

That's baaaaane
Play him against people that know the character and you will understand 7L, i agree with him. and so what if you do get an Ice arrow off every now and then, you get shit all for damage.

He will fall to bottom very fast. I'm pissed that I picked him as well.
I guess in time we will see. I agree with the damage, but that's it. We will see I guess
 
All are gimmicks and all of these can be blocked fuzzy or with just simple knowledge of his strings. He has no true mix ups. If youre knocked down. F2d13 and b23 are the options. Block high. Then low. Then high. Then just block the arrow mixup. Its not hard. Bottom tier character. I feel dumb for even picking him up. People get hit by the gimmicks if they dont know the string. Give them 15 mins to actually look at him and recognize the strings and everything ga does is useless. He cant zone at a decent level becauee normal arrows are trash and you get 2 elct arrows to lose most trades in damage and fire arrows barely break even with most other projectiles. Take this into account. So now youre sitting here with a character you have to work to get in with and then hope to win with low damage midscreen. Gimmick strings and a reset that youre blowing every bit of meter for. Final decision. Garbage character. Pig Of The Hut told me to never drop this character. But he is just complete trash in every which way. Once people know how to fight him. Chris g will only be using black adam. I actually dropped this game as of today after ect5. It was a joke. Ga gets walked all over and along with the many other complaints I have but whatever. I should have picked an actual gimmick character who isnt bottom 5
Couldn't agree more. This character is mediocre at best. Alot of his "mixups" aren;t true mixups, just gimmicks and people that can't fuzzy guard or aren;t familair with his strings eat them, but against people that can actually block GA has nothing. This characterr can't even zone or slow down alot of zoners. green Arrow just gets outclassed in too many ways by the higher tier characters. I made a thread about buffing his trait but not many people chipped in. Understandable, I don;t see why anyone should main this character for tournament play when there are better and easier options.