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Tech Green Arrow vortex w/ frozen arrow. Add safe pressure/Bait wake-ups

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Couldn't agree more. This character is mediocre at best. Alot of his "mixups" aren;t true mixups, just gimmicks and people that can't fuzzy guard or aren;t familair with his strings eat them, but against people that can actually block GA has nothing. This characterr can't even zone or slow down alot of zoners. green Arrow just gets outclassed in too many ways by the higher tier characters. I made a thread about buffing his trait but not many people chipped in. Understandable, I don;t see why anyone should main this character for tournament play when there are better and easier options.
the only guy that does anything with him in tourny is Chris G, and thats cause he's godlike, but he refuses to play him vs aquaman, cause that shit is just fucked. there are many match ups just like that one as well, hell, try play a high level nightwing.
 
the only guy that does anything with him in tourny is Chris G, and thats cause he's godlike, but he refuses to play him vs aquaman, cause that shit is just fucked. there are many match ups just like that one as well, hell, try play a high level nightwing.
Agreed. Even Chris G himself doesn;t main him full time. The last couple of streams I've watched Chris G was using Black Adam for the most part. Green Arrow just isn't tournament material, but, I feel if NRS were to buff up his strait and tweak some of his values, he'd be golden. I don't think he's a lost cause like Bane for example lol, he can still be saved.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
All are gimmicks and all of these can be blocked fuzzy or with just simple knowledge of his strings. He has no true mix ups. If youre knocked down. F2d13 and b23 are the options. Block high. Then low. Then high. Then just block the arrow mixup. Its not hard. Bottom tier character. I feel dumb for even picking him up. People get hit by the gimmicks if they dont know the string. Give them 15 mins to actually look at him and recognize the strings and everything ga does is useless. He cant zone at a decent level becauee normal arrows are trash and you get 2 elct arrows to lose most trades in damage and fire arrows barely break even with most other projectiles. Take this into account. So now youre sitting here with a character you have to work to get in with and then hope to win with low damage midscreen. Gimmick strings and a reset that youre blowing every bit of meter for. Final decision. Garbage character. Pig Of The Hut told me to never drop this character. But he is just complete trash in every which way. Once people know how to fight him. Chris g will only be using black adam. I actually dropped this game as of today after ect5. It was a joke. Ga gets walked all over and along with the many other complaints I have but whatever. I should have picked an actual gimmick character who isnt bottom 5
Agreed.
He loses to better characters, has mediocre damage and depends on gimmicks.
It's still hella fun to use but I wouldn't recommend using him at a tournament or anything :sadface:
I think we can all agree he could use a little damage/load arrow recovery buff.
 
Up until now, I've just been a lurker, but I felt the need to sign up just to state how strongly I agree about GA being a trash character.

I'd really like to main him, but he's literally horrible at everything. If a lot of his moves came out just a little faster, and if he had actual mixups, I think that'd justify him having poor damage. Also, if he had actual zoning, and his dash ended a little sooner, that might justify having slow moves and bad mixups. The actual case with GA, though, is that he has bad damage, bad zoning, bad mixups, and slow moves... :confused:

Character needs a lot of help, imo.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Agreed.
He loses to better characters, has mediocre damage and depends on gimmicks.
It's still hella fun to use but I wouldn't recommend using him at a tournament or anything :sadface:
I think we can all agree he could use a little damage/load arrow recovery buff.
thats my problem, he is so fuckin fun to use!!! lol
 
Agreed.
He loses to better characters, has mediocre damage and depends on gimmicks.
It's still hella fun to use but I wouldn't recommend using him at a tournament or anything :sadface:
I think we can all agree he could use a little damage/load arrow recovery buff.
Si, and Si ! I completely agree my compadre.
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
Allow me to ruin all your buff hopes and dreams about green arrow in my next strongly worded statement. ED BOON.


That is all.

I actually mirrored chris g today after I got bodied. I think I went 5 to 15. Not horrid but I showed him a few of my best gimmicky gimmicks to help him out if he plans to use GA tomorrow. Granted....he really shouldnt unless the person is completely clueless and going to fall intp every trap....but we had a huge discussion on how he has no ability to zone. All he can do is thrive in the corner and force you to panic poke to get punished by a d1 ice arrow...granted you have your ONE ice arrow loaded. Yadda yadda. As I always said when chris g won in mk. He doesnt win because reptile is godlike. He wins because he is godlike. He forced me to make mistakes. He took gimmicks to a whole new level. Once he noticed I blocked any mixup...f2d13 overhead or low arrow. B2 overhead low arrow. He would mindfuck me by doing a string. Draw an arrow and just sit there and stare. Works but by no meams viable...just another one of GAs mind games which he thinks he has. Granted I hope this game can evolve. People say its balanced and I just have to give up hope on ga. I look at him like sindel....she wasnt good and they say...omg we need to nerf this....WHY!? That now makes a mid tier character even worse. And if people complain enough about his b23 and arrows being + on block, I can honestly see them becoming neutral. Would not surprise me one bit. I'll pray for the best of this game but as for ga... unless you buff his damage. Hes unviable. I'm by no means saying make his d1 to ice arrow combos 50%. But on an average d1 combo with set up you get 26 max and with a 22 punish starter string. About 29 because scaling takes its toll along with the damage 22 does...a whopping 5%. So many things fell through the cracks. Honestly it sickens me on the ways ive been winning with ga. I want to make a little guide on how to block every ome of his mix ups. I may do it tomorrow when I get to a computer.
 
Allow me to ruin all your buff hopes and dreams about green arrow in my next strongly worded statement. ED BOON.


That is all.

I actually mirrored chris g today after I got bodied. I think I went 5 to 15. Not horrid but I showed him a few of my best gimmicky gimmicks to help him out if he plans to use GA tomorrow. Granted....he really shouldnt unless the person is completely clueless and going to fall intp every trap....but we had a huge discussion on how he has no ability to zone. All he can do is thrive in the corner and force you to panic poke to get punished by a d1 ice arrow...granted you have your ONE ice arrow loaded. Yadda yadda. As I always said when chris g won in mk. He doesnt win because reptile is godlike. He wins because he is godlike. He forced me to make mistakes. He took gimmicks to a whole new level. Once he noticed I blocked any mixup...f2d13 overhead or low arrow. B2 overhead low arrow. He would mindfuck me by doing a string. Draw an arrow and just sit there and stare. Works but by no meams viable...just another one of GAs mind games which he thinks he has. Granted I hope this game can evolve. People say its balanced and I just have to give up hope on ga. I look at him like sindel....she wasnt good and they say...omg we need to nerf this....WHY!? That now makes a mid tier character even worse. And if people complain enough about his b23 and arrows being + on block, I can honestly see them becoming neutral. Would not surprise me one bit. I'll pray for the best of this game but as for ga... unless you buff his damage. Hes unviable. I'm by no means saying make his d1 to ice arrow combos 50%. But on an average d1 combo with set up you get 26 max and with a 22 punish starter string. About 29 because scaling takes its toll along with the damage 22 does...a whopping 5%. So many things fell through the cracks. Honestly it sickens me on the ways ive been winning with ga. I want to make a little guide on how to block every ome of his mix ups. I may do it tomorrow when I get to a computer.
Hopefully NRS shows this character some love. I'm almost convinced that if his arrow load recovery (trait) were to be buffed (made faster) he'd be alot more viable. I believe that one change can help him hang with the big boys. We'd be able to load while being zoned out to counterzone and slow it down, load mid combos thus extending combos and getting more damage, and not have to rely on having an arrow preloaded and only loading safely after bnbs.

PS: What about Ed Boon? Does he hate Green Arrow in the comics or whatever by any chance?
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
Lol it was a joke. Everything that I find stupid in the game and that happens to me. Instead of swearing I just yell Why ed why! Just some self humoring. But really...if the paper says that somebody threw a brick through ed boons window...it wasnt me...
 
Lol it was a joke. Everything that I find stupid in the game and that happens to me. Instead of swearing I just yell Why ed why! Just some self humoring. But really...if the paper says that somebody threw a brick through ed boons window...it wasnt me...
LMAO......Persevere my friend, we shall get the Green "Sparrow" buffed. Only a fool would think this character doesn't need love from Ed Boons eyebrows. In any event, if our dream fails and he remains the Green Sparrow, Us Sparrows shall unite and drive to Ed Boons office to set his eyebrows on fire. Seriously speaking though, we should keep spreading the word around, maybe NRS will take notice. Who knows, Maybe Chris G can get the message/idea to the right ears.
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
Well until chris g loses (aka: people need to learn the fkin matchup) they'll see only that green arrow is a god of mix ups and pressure and that hes top tier. They do pay attention to the tourneys now. They ccat just listen to people. Get everybody in the community to say aquamam needs a damage buff because he doesnt do enough. They cant just be like. ...well hell, aquaman is bad..buff buff buff! Theyll look at the high level play because tourneys get them viewers and viewers buy their product. So...in this ramble...what I'm trying to say is...at the moment. Green arrow looks like a tank. He has mixups. He can do pressure after arrows and holy good god. Look! He has a reset! He's fine. So yeah...if anything. We have a while. And to be honest. I see the other top players soon having no trouble with ga causing chris to drop him completely. Then maybe we will be able to get a buff...unless they say...look what chris did with him *brings up week 1 video*



Wow I have been doing huge rants today.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
When it comes to fuzzy guarding Green arrows f2d13 and f2d1 low ice arrow the overhead comes first right? So you block high then low at the end of the string? If thats the case why not just make the arrow start up speed faster? It will make it a viable 50/50.

I don't think faster loading speed would be a good idea for ice arrows because of freeze time. If anything they could make certain types of arrows load faster than others but loading arrows haven't really been my issue.

I can say a good nightwing is probably one of the absolute worst match ups GA has. He just loses from every area on the screen.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Just a note, the fuzzy guard seems a lot harder if you mix in f2d1 xx ice arrow jump back release. It seems hard to react to. You can also finish the string and jump or crouch ice arrow. In the corner the jump back ice arrow goes over their head but mid screen it seems to work well. Mix all that with delayed releases and dash cancels and his mix ups should still be pretty viable. I tested on myself in training. If anyone wants to give it a go let me know what you think.

GA still has good tools. He has a great d1 with good range. Normal arrow is great for buying time to load whatever arrow you need, thats why I don't think you really need a faster load time. He can deal with zoning from a lot of characters, I think the hardest ones to deal with are characters like Green Lantern and especially nightwing. He has a great jumping 3 and you can get decent damage when it hits. Also I'm trying to find some if he has any ambiguous crossup setups off of his 223 string.

Don't forget he has his meter burn b3 that leads to a free freeze. You can load ice arrow while they are frozen to get a mix up off the f2d1 string instead of tacking on a small amount of damage.He needs that shit imo.

Don't take this as me saying I think GA is great but I'm just trying to see what we can actually do that works. I understand where everyone is coming from.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
7L
Jimmypotato
Cossner

I agree with you guys.. We really need to think all this through and find out what buffs kan be implemented without changing his game.

I think almost everyone's AA should be better so I would only request that if many others get a buff as well. This wouldn't change his game too much, it would just eliminate the "randomed out" factor people kould employ on him.

An overall buff in the start up for aiming the Arrows by themselves I think would be the best idea.

Regular arrows should probably do more than 1% as well. Even 4% like Harley would be nice.

I don't think he would need damage if he got these buffs and kept what he already has. Even with these buffs he would still get raped by Supes F23 Breath since he has no 6 frame move or a great back dash.

Let me know your thoughts on this. What does Arrow need?

Edit: Removed the low Arrow idea.
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
He can uppercut for antiair. Works decently. He needs the damage or just improved string start ups. If he cant use a viable mid, he's beat by most characters. Also arrow load is too negative. Faster loading
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
He can uppercut for antiair. Works decently. He needs the damage or just improved string start ups. If he cant use a viable mid, he's beat by most characters. Also arrow load is too negative. Faster loading
I haven't been able to D2 quite a few higher priority jumping attacks like Batmans J2 even when I read it. I tried it in training mode and the timing is strict and very dependent on the angle. The fact that it's 14 frames makes it a bit hard to use. But either way, I don't think that's his main issue.

I don't think he needs faster strings. 10 frame mid is good. F2 is a solid 13 frames which is good for a ranged move. Not many character have ranged normals this fast.

Like Scoot Magee said, hitting your opponent with a regular arrow allows you to load an arrow and he kan load them in kombos. Now if he had a faster start up on his aim then he would be able to hit people with his basic arrows so he kan load his better ones and this would allow him to get in. This solves the issue of loading the arrows AND his problems against zoning in one simple buff.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far. I'm going to hold most suggestions of mine until after the patch on Tuesday just to see what happens.

All I'll say is that I really wish we could use MB slide on block and have it be safe. This would allow Green Arrow to safely check opponents with a slide and hit confirm the MB version when it gets blocked...This still comes at a price because of the meter, and his slide isn't nearly as rewarding as someone like Killer Frost.
I don't want to do this often but I'm gonna tag colt just to see if you have any thoughts. Imo this would be a fairly simple change that's very balanced.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far. I'm going to hold most suggestions of mine until after the patch on Tuesday just to see what happens.

All I'll say is that I really wish we could use MB slide on block and have it be safe. This would allow Green Arrow to safely check opponents with a slide and hit confirm the MB version when it gets blocked...This still comes at a price because of the meter, and his slide isn't nearly as rewarding as someone like Killer Frost.
I don't want to do this often but I'm gonna tag colt just to see if you have any thoughts. Imo this would be a fairly simple change that's very balanced.
That's too gimmicky for my tastes.. lol. The buff I think is better placed elsewhere in my opinion.

My opinion is that they buff the start up of the arrow that way he kan deal with zoners and have his arrows actually be a threat. Even at 1% damage. He kan at least load up an arrow this way to get back in the game.

So that he has options against Superman, I also think they should make either his D1 or standing 1 six frames.

I don't like bothering Paulo. Next time I think we should think this out a bit more and let him know once we have more information.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Premium Supporter
Agreed.
He loses to better characters, has mediocre damage and depends on gimmicks.
It's still hella fun to use but I wouldn't recommend using him at a tournament or anything :sadface:
I think we can all agree he could use a little damage/load arrow recovery buff.
I dont think Green Arrow is a trash character, but he is not going to be top tier and I agree with these buff's tremendously. Arrow damage increase would be huge and faster ways to get out arrows safely would also be huge. He needs both honestly.

Currently I am trying to find ways to keep either electric or fire out at all times to give him better small punishes that add up at a distance so he doesn't get pressured to death, alongside of trying to find different ways to add lows after stuff that ordinarily just gets followed with a high (ie stinger after queens gambit is something most dont block, but I need more than this corner option).

There may be more here for this character, but he wont be fancy with his mixups. He is gonna be an in and out punish guy and for that most will just use Nightwing or something. Tomorrow we should check for patch notes on the update as not everything is known on it and its definitely throwing around buffs and nerfs since Deathstroke got both a buff and a few nerfs, Sinestro got a trait buff, and we know there is more stuff coming. In any event though I'm still gonna play him. This is a character that rewards folks who read their opponents and react more than flow charting their entire match approaches. I dig that and I dig him. That said if Red Hood makes it in I'll have a new main. I'll even make the helmet and take pictures.
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
I haven't been able to D2 quite a few higher priority jumping attacks like Batmans J2 even when I read it. I tried it in training mode and the timing is strict and very dependent on the angle. The fact that it's 14 frames makes it a bit hard to use. But either way, I don't think that's his main issue.

I don't think he needs faster strings. 10 frame mid is good. F2 is a solid 13 frames which is good for a ranged move. Not many character have ranged normals this fast.

Like Scoot Magee said, hitting your opponent with a regular arrow allows you to load an arrow and he kan load them in kombos. Now if he had a faster start up on his aim then he would be able to hit people with his basic arrows so he kan load his better ones and this would allow him to get in. This solves the issue of loading the arrows AND his problems against zoning in one simple buff.

OHhh his 10 frame mid and 7 frame d1 are fine? Yup yup makes sense...just one little thing. Hi I'm superman. F23 ice breath. Oh what's that green arrow? Can't get out with that? Let me do it again with my 8 frame f23 because I'm plus 1.

Hes slow. 22 is 4.80% damage. Low ass damage too and hes beaten by characters who have average speed advancing strings
 
tbh, I don´t understand why he needs a buff on his trait? His trait leads to a combo and setups with 50/50 on wakeup. Cross up/Non Cross up (DB+1/ DF+1) with iA DeaD On which gives you a free mixup and stuffes wakeups in the corner after 223. And I think Chris G is a godlike beatem up gamer but is GA is improveable. He never uses 223 as a comboender and the B+3 dash D+2xxDB+4 is a much better setup. All GA need is a damage buff. His damage is laughable. I don´t want a 50% Combo of off an D+1 Ice Arrow, but 17%?
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
OHhh his 10 frame mid and 7 frame d1 are fine? Yup yup makes sense...just one little thing. Hi I'm superman. F23 ice breath. Oh what's that green arrow? Can't get out with that? Let me do it again with my 8 frame f23 because I'm plus 1.

Hes slow. 22 is 4.80% damage. Low ass damage too and hes beaten by characters who have average speed advancing strings
He's not slow.. Supes is just fast, and broken. Supes is Arrow's main problem as I've stated many times.
 

Gaiden

Injustice
GA is a very strong character and has some very strong stuff that is completely untapped. Taking notes from Chris G and basing buffs/nerfs on him and yourself is not smart since he's not a very good GA (and you're probably not either, no offense).

First off, GA has an unblockable super with blocked F2d13, Super. leading to about 50% unclashable damage. He has a godlike frontdash and DB2 for spacing and easy meter building.

He has a 50/50 with F2D1, Low arrow and F2D13. He has F2D13, Low arrow and F2d13, Meterburn F3 for a more advanced 50/50 which is fuzzyguardable but very hard to deal with. He has a a free F2D13 against most characters after a D1 hit unless backdashed. He has a free He also has 29% Midscreen damage no meter which pushes the enemy towards corner where he shines.

Now he also has some more things that i don't feel like sharing because he is completely underused including a true corner vortex, a reset against 12 characters in this game (not possible against the other 12 due to hitbox), and a strong crossup involving a certain combo and his Air DB1.

I urge people to stop judging him. He might not be BA or KF but he is def high tier with some bad matchups which can be easily circumvented by playing a different characer.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
GA is a very strong character and has some very strong stuff that is completely untapped. Taking notes from Chris G and basing buffs/nerfs on him and yourself is not smart since he's not a very good GA (and you're probably not either, no offense).

First off, GA has an unblockable super with blocked F2d13, Super. leading to about 50% unclashable damage. He has a godlike frontdash and DB2 for spacing and easy meter building.

He has a true 50/50 with F2D1, Low arrow and F2D13 (u cannot fuzzyguard this). He has F2D13, Low arrow and F2d13, Meterburn F3 for a more advanced 50/50 which is fuzzyguardable but very hard to deal with. He has a a free F2D13 against most characters after a D1 hit unless backdashed. He has a free He also has 29% Midscreen damage no meter which pushes the enemy towards corner where he shines.

Now he also has some more things that i don't feel like sharing because he is completely underused including a true corner vortex, a reset against 12 characters in this game (not possible against the other 12 due to hitbox), and a strong crossup involving a certain combo and his Air DB1.

I urge people to stop judging him. He might not be BA or KF but he is def high tier with some bad matchups which can be easily circumvented by playing a different characer.

I've had the time to mess with him more recently I discovered some of this stuff with him. He does have to work hard but he has good tools. That's why I retracted the buffs I presented. We still need to figure out more with him.

However, I do still think a buff to make his jab 6 frames would be good since that would allow him to have an answer to trait Superman doing the F23 Breath loop.