Strategy Green Arrow Misconceptions

[Cossner]

So, apparently the GA community has come under fire for saying the truth about the character.
I wanna make this thread just to clear things up:

Green Arrow is not a bad character. HE'S DAMN GOOD.

He's not S+ tier, he's in between mid and top tier. He has bad match ups and good match ups. Some of his good match ups are against top tiers. He still has issues.

IMO, when the game evolves even more, Green Arrow will go down in the tier list. We still see people not counterpoking the d1 xx arrow at high level tournaments. We still see people falling for super setups when they can back dash. We still see people getting hit by f2d13.

His damage is ass. He does not get to do super resets 20 times in a game. Even less now, now that it's not longer guaranteed after f2d13 and b13. You see characters getting some ez mode no bars 45% damage, when we struggle to get past 30% 1 bar. Hell, most damaging combo in the corner doesn't even work against small hitbox characters (b2 xx heaven blast). But he can get in pretty easily. You basically get a lot of small combo opportunities, and once or twice big (35%+) combo opportunities.

His air game is really, really good. Characters that have air dashes must be extremely careful against him. Jumpy Superman, Hawkgirl, WonderWoman, KillerFrost are super easy to body with GA. The problem is when they remain in the ground.

There's a lot to discover with this character. I find out new ways to do stuff every day, better setups, etc. We still have a lot to learn, but we do know a good chunk. Yes, Paulo, we did know about the infinites. No, they weren't as practical as you'd think they'd be.

His problems are:

1. Tiny T-Rex arms range. F2 and d1 are the longest reaching normals but they don't compare to other characters like Superman or Aquaman.
2. Shit damage in normal circumstances. And even with the reset, it's not like Supes in the corner.
3. Lack of decent low starters. You have to either use f2d1, low arrow, stinger in the corner. They're all pretty readable, there's basically no point in crouching against Green Arrow unless you see arrows in the screen.
4. Wonky combos. 113 -> j2 (unreliable). f2d13 -> ff -> 11/22 (unreliable). b3 -> ff -> 3 xx Sky Alert -> Sky Alert (unreliable). J3 -> 223 (unreliable, 3 won't land most of the time). Corner, anything using 111 xx Sky Alert requires special timing.
5. Using a Super is worthless if the opponent has bars. Damage on the super is low because you can continue the combo afterwards. If the opponent has bars, he can just clash and say fuck you and your family.
6. Wake up game is so-so. Savage Blast can be blown up by a J2. Stinger and Hurricane Blade are full combo punishable.
7. He's not a zoner. His damage full screen is ass, even with fire arrows, which can be perfectly blocked.
8. Terrible antiair. Sorry guys, it still loses to scorp, catwoman, and you need to read the jump in. Even with the buff, d2 is unreliable, b4 is really slow and Heaven Blast is unusable.
9. Shitty interactables. Yeah, gadget characters got the short end of the stick here.

His strengths are:

1. Great mindgames. While holding arrow: Is he gonna J xx d4 me? Is he gonna d4 me? Is he gonna dash cancel into pressure/grab? Characters that have no way to hit you midscreen have a lot of issue with this, and since it's all safe, you can just back dash, load an arrow and keep going.
2. Super Resets are great for damage. Pretty much his only way to get some actual damage outside the corner.
3. Corner Pressure is fantastic.
4. Awesome poke. 7 frames, can be made safe with Savage Blast, great for punishing.
5. When he gets in the zone, it's hard to zone him (HA). Shitty 1% arrows are great to stop zoners, but they don't work as well as they're supposed to.
6. Great air game. Seriously guys, J3 is great and it leads to 25%+ on an air-to-air trade. Arrow then jumping is great against jump/air dash happy people.
7. Mix ups yoh. b23, f2d13, low arrow, and it's mostly safe
8. Great mobility, super fast dash in, savage blast to safely get out.
9. He's fun as fuck.

With the recent patches, most of his problems against other characters have disappeared.
Does he needs buffs? Maybe, just a tiny bit to become top tier.
Is he fine the way he is right now, considering all the nerfs the other characters have received? Maybe, he's pretty close to being just right. I'd still make the load arrow a couple frames faster.
Is Green Arrow top tier because THE CHARACTER HAS WON 2 MAJORS. Correction, ChrisG has won 2 majors. Now imagine ChrisG picking up Superman or prepatch Scorpion. Judgement of a character shouldn't be relative.

Now please, could we please stop with the "The GA community are a bunch of downplayers" bullshit.

Spoiler

SimSim
GodsLonelyman
7L
Eddy Wang
Red Reaper
Jimmypotato
Scoot Magee
bloodsport
Phosferrax

And whoever the fucks actually plays Green Arrow and is not just whining little finger pointer (like someone who Plays to W1n).

 

[Eh SnOwY]

didntreadLOL.GIF

 

[Cossner]

didntreadLOL.GIF

This is a response to the Injustice Kryptonite Council Podcast thing.

 

[miloPKL]

i agree. but i somehow didnt know about the controversy. i simply thought he was a good character who was viable and chris g is a beast.

 

[Jimmypotato]

This is a response to the Injustice Kryptonite Council Podcast thing.

lol I'm not gonna listen to that podcast

Probably just a buncha salty players bitching about a character that they didn't practice against and thought they new how to fight lol.

Green Arrow is good, and in the right hands can be devastating, still has bad match ups but so do most character.

But people that don't know how to defend against him, or just read things about what he can do instead of actually finding out for themselves are going to get torn up by him.

I find it hilarious to watch Chris G get away with what he gets away with, not taking anything away from him, as he is godlike, but shame on some of the people that I saw play him, they just looked lost.

Arrow excels against players that just wanna push buttons, and most characters in Injustice don't require much though, just buttons pressing.

The people that play him and post on this site don't bitch about him, it's mostly other people that get bodied by him, or people that try use him and suck with him and get bodied, the core Green Arrow community are quite good at helping eachother out.

And by the way, Chris G did not use All Arrow at that tourny, He used some BA as well.

I honestly don't give a fuck what those guys say about the Green Arrow Community, just keep playing the game if it's fun to you guys, and keep using Arrow if you like him.

 

[Sasuga]

He isn't bad at all. On top of that, he is a very fun character. I really like his character design.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lots of ppl still don't block F2d13~ice arrow properly this is true fact, i get chunk of damage by hitting this string a lot at some point, hell, i've hardly seen ppl using pushblock either.
D1 arrow is his only fast punisher, and is only good if D1 hits, also if you don't have patience and are trying to get in at all cost by moving your character around like a fly, you might get caught by an ice arrow coming out of no where.

When ppl figure what they can blow up, and how they can avoid his mixups, adding the fact that his regular damage is 24% 27% higher with a bar, and rarely over 30% with a bar, this character will start to go down, but i do play him anyway, because he is the most fun character to play so far in my honest opinion.
- His variety arsenal and what you with what he was designed for is good, he isn't perfect but i do believe that when he shoots a low arrow, high projectiles shouldn't hit him, he is already slow shooting an arrow.
- Fixing his standing 1 to hit mid from his t-rex arm so we can actually put some use into it would be nice. this reminds me a lot of some MK9 strings that are strongly advised to never use it because you won't get any benefit on hit, or block. Same with this string, the chances of connecting is pretty bad and ppl crouch most of the time to avoid.
-His damage is scaled by -5 when ice arrow is used should, scale less.

but lets see how this plays out, lots of things in the game were nerfed, and i hope it becomes a bit more tolerable for him.

 

[Minh Giang]

Don't see why GA is S tier (srsly, S Tier? lol so YoloBo must be A Tier), but my question is HOW THE FUCK CAN HE BE A BAD CHAR???

 

[Phosferrax]

Great write-up, im salty I didnt get a tag.

Sheep on TYM will still say we're downplayers though. So many people dont know the MU.

 

[bloodsport]

im salty I didnt get a tag.

this. not only am i a GA main but also a fellow mexican, so i'm extra disappointed in you Cossner.

as for GA... please buff the fucking hitbox on standing 1. that's all i want pls and thx.

 

[GRieVeR_SKeiTH]

But you played Reptile
Arrow's mixup game is just awesome, every blockstring w/ ice arrow just forces you to hesitate.
I think he's fine, thats his dirt, they need to stop taking other characters away though.

Spoiler

missed you Cossner

 

[bloodsport]

But you played Reptile

personally i think this is the main reason people think GA players downplay.

fucking cossner.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

snip

Excellent write up. I couldn't agree more with everything said. It is obvious that you know what you are talking about and actually play the chatacter. I'm certain every ga player can relate to this post. It's refreshing to see posts like these on TYM when most of whats posted these days is random nonsense. I too feel that with reducing recovery frames on an arrow load alot of his issues would become less noticeable. It's actually what I've been saying for months in regards to buffing. Ifeel that this characters is solid, very solid actually, and with that one tiny buff he would be so much more versatile.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't have time to make a detailed response right now but I don't fully agree with some of the flaws you mentioned. For instance, people respect d1 arrow because of d1 savage blast. J3 223 is consistent and the timing isn't that strict at all. He gets good unbreakable damage after his super as well.

 

[Jeffreys]

LBSH the Green Arrow community downplays as much as the reptile and smoke forums did.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Maybe it's not everybody who posts here, but there are many GA players across the forums that say "ChrisG is god, GA SUCKS" and the community is kind of over it. I think that was the intention of the podcast. He's not top tier, but in this game, you don't have to be top tier to win. He's upper mid at best, first post broke down everything pretty well.

 

[Red Reaper]

He reminds me a lot of Sektor.. Very versatile, but has some issues.

He also has to think hard in pretty much every match up he plays but most are even...

Like Sektor, I don't see him getting any worse or much better as time goes on. I think he'll stay where he's at. Good, but not scrub friendly. Which is how I like my characters.

PS: I like Gadget characters. Bombing shit = funner than throwing shit.

 

[Red Reaper]

LBSH the Green Arrow community downplays as much as the reptile and smoke forums did.

Woah!

As an Arrow main I say: F*CK You!

lol... Smoke forums were ridiculous.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't agree with arrow load needing to be faster. I've never had a problem loading arrows whatsoever. His normal green arrow is perfect for buying time to load arrows. The green arrow is completely underused and misunderstood by most players. It doesn't need more damage, it leaves you at plenty of + frames to do what you need to do up close. F2D1 xx arrow leaves you at +10 on hit to follow up with another string, it's a great frame trap. You also have the overhead option and then you can dash in d1 into bow spin or arrow load.

As for his damage from super. He gets great damage from a super into b3x2. After that you load a fire arrow and keep away if you have a life lead (which you most likely will after landing that). I rarely even let anyone clash against me at all. His damage in the corner is really good combined with his corner pressure. His mid screen combos don't do much but they are designed pretty much to push people towards the corner.

Most characters in every fighting game are going to have bad match ups. Just grind them and figure the shit out like any other good player. Honestly I don't think the character needs buffs. They took away some of his dirt and I'm a little sad about that but he's still good. All of his dirt could just be push blocked anyway.

His wake up game isn't bad at all. Savage blast is great and moves you away, if you read a jump 2 (you are at disadvantage considering you were knocked down) use his up arrow, it gives you a decent juggle even without ice arrow.

If you think gadget characters have it bad you have to do some more research man. They can do some pretty fucked up shit.

P.S.

Use more fire arrows

 

[Scoot Magee]

Also |I posted a thread, not sure how many people looked at it but it was about anti wake up strategy vs Black Adam. You can completely stop his lightning cage wake up at pretty much no risk with d1 savage blast. The only thing you have to watch for is him trying to wake up with the straight lightning move which isn't as good. This will open up so much more pressure against him. There's a lot of other shit like this in the game that will work.

 

[RexyWrecks]

F2D1 xx arrow leaves you at +10

How does this leave you at +10? I thought arrows are +3 to +5.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I don't have time to make a detailed response right now but I don't fully agree with some of the flaws you mentioned. For instance, people respect d1 arrow because of d1 savage blast. J3 223 is consistent and the timing isn't that strict at all. He gets good unbreakable damage after his super as well.

J3 223 does not jail and if you block J3 you can interupt the follow up. NO ONE DOES THIS, except a couple friends I play with.

 

[Jimmypotato]

How does this leave you at +10? I thought arrows are +3 to +5.

+10 on hit because its a low arrow,

 

[THTB]

GA is good. I don't get the downplay.

 

[Red Reaper]

I don't agree with arrow load needing to be faster. I've never had a problem loading arrows whatsoever. His normal green arrow is perfect for buying time to load arrows. The green arrow is completely underused and misunderstood by most players. It doesn't need more damage, it leaves you at plenty of + frames to do what you need to do up close. F2D1 xx arrow leaves you at +10 on hit to follow up with another string, it's a great frame trap. You also have the overhead option and then you can dash in d1 into bow spin or arrow load.

As for his damage from super. He gets great damage from a super into b3x2. After that you load a fire arrow and keep away if you have a life lead (which you most likely will after landing that). I rarely even let anyone clash against me at all. His damage in the corner is really good combined with his corner pressure. His mid screen combos don't do much but they are designed pretty much to push people towards the corner.

Most characters in every fighting game are going to have bad match ups. Just grind them and figure the shit out like any other good player. Honestly I don't think the character needs buffs. They took away some of his dirt and I'm a little sad about that but he's still good. All of his dirt could just be push blocked anyway.

His wake up game isn't bad at all. Savage blast is great and moves you away, if you read a jump 2 (you are at disadvantage considering you were knocked down) use his up arrow, it gives you a decent juggle even without ice arrow.

If you think gadget characters have it bad you have to do some more research man. They can do some pretty fucked up shit.

P.S.

Use more fire arrows

I was agreeing with you but then you said this: "You also have the overhead option and then you can dash in d1 into bow spin or arrow load."

I agree with a lot of other stuff too though. Just not that.