I think the biggest thing this discourse tells us is that it's too early and we are quite possibly playing in the past perhaps? It's good everyone doesn't agree though, mainly because the meta has shifted significantly and I think we'd be better off focusing on the tools our character has in a match up instead of worrying about "Who do you play against" because that doesn't really tell us why a match up unfolds the way it does.
Telestomp is not an essential tool that makes or breaks a match up. There are characters Goro goes 5-5 with and he can rarely if ever use telestomp or using it is not often times worthwhile (Kitana comes to mind) and honestly considering he can actually move around now it cannot even be considered necessary for mobility either, it's more comparable to square wave where it has uses, but the opponent being able to deal with it doesn't make or break your chances. The main thing telestomp should be used for in my opinion is shutting down cross ups and other types of jump ins or corner escape attempts.
If Mileena's best option for getting out of down poke into punch walk is roll, even if it's meterless she's still unsafe as shit on block. Why is this even a big deal? She has to commit to roll out of it and all that really does is set up a meta game. I could see if this was like Hawkgirl in Injustice where she could get out of gaps and be +4 on block with wing evade, but if Mileena is wrong, she dies. Cancelling everything into punch walk at this stage in the game shouldn't be a thing anymore anyway. You have the frame data to sustain mix ups and offense, why not use it? If people feel compelled to cancel a fast mid into punch walk, back 1 is also a gapless option that leads to decent damage.
And why is having to block after a punch walk occasionally a problem? Other people that are minus five (or worse minus eight) and are forced to block after their pressure ends yet it's not a big deal and they probably beat said character (in the case of Kitana versus Reptile).
As for Johnny Cage, that whole argument is contingent on the Johnny Cage player NEVER being wrong and if they are never wrong, you're getting outplayed pretty decisively. Is it really that crazy to make a read on down 4 and either reverse pressure or mix it up in how you deal with pressure? Sometimes just blocking and then countering is super effective. The logic for Cage winning is very flimsy. For example, you claim down 4 alone is enough for him to win plus you add his zoning, but Cassie Cage and other characters you have as winning have better projectile zoning with instant air guns AND a low profiling down poke. It's not consistent and not logical.
Goro should NEVER truly struggle beyond 4-6 at worst against pressure characters, he is built by design to be a tank character with great defensive options. If all Cage is doing is abusing down 4, block and counter poke. His down 4 might be good, but overall our pokes are equal or better than his combined pokes. We have safe escape options out of his pressure and while my point about him being extremely vulnerable to our oki has largely been ignored, it still definitely matters. His pressure is really good, but if anybody can deal with Cage's pressure, it's Goro with his safe armor, plus on block armor and good pokes.
You could have quoted me if you wanted an answer Espio, i just saw your post.
Regarding A-List JC, his d4 is a MAJOR deal-breaker against Goro. Being able to low profile him up close and in footsies range is ridiculous. I m saying that if his pressure is done perfectly, there are no gaps to interrupt him, and even if there are, he can just d4 on a read and boom, Goro just lost a bar for nothing and he is at minus frames against one of the best pressure characters in the game.
You cant have meter for armor, EVERYTIME JC touches you on block, thats ridiculous, plus as i said to Knicks, his zoning in A-List variation, is pretty godlike.
Cassie Cage is not the same, simply because:
Her main advancing string has a gap.
She does not have cancels which are a gazillion plus on block.
On knockdown, after XL, she is 100% free, while JC is not.
I find ridiculous that NRS said that they addressed the low profiling issue and yet JC is still able to low profile for free Goro's punchwalk, dragon spin, command grab, f3, b121 with his d4 which, i forgot to mention, is +20something frames on hit AND its safe against Goro and, pretty much, against the entire cast.
If that is not a bad MU for Goro, then i really dont know what is.
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