God of Thunder patch

[Raiman]

So the patch finally hit PSN yesterday. Here are my first impression after playing for about 6 hours or so:

--at this point I can't tell if there is a noticeable difference in the recovery time of the teleport. First opponent I met after I downloaded the patch was some button mashing n00b. There literally was no time during a match that this scrub was not mashing on a button, and he in addition was apparently unfamiliar with the block button. Every time I teleported I got punished by a 1, 1 or 2, 2 but I am not sure if that was because of his button mashing or the 2 additional frames of recovery.

--the next several opponents I faced sometimes it seemed I had to wait just a little bit longer after a teleport before I could do anything, other times i was able to do anything I did before the patch with no noticeable difference.

-- what makes it even harder to assess if there is a noticeable difference was the fact that yesterday and today there was a terrible lag on PSN. I wasn't able to hit combos as simple as 3, 3, 4.

--Vicinity Blast still seems to be at advantage on block, which is great. Several times I was able to pull off a throw after the opponent blocked it.

--I didn't try Ex-Teleport a single time. In my opinion this will only be useful against high level players or ones that are overly defensive, i.e. opponents who are more likely to block and/or attempt to bait a teleport in order to punish it. Against semi-aggresive to aggresive players it'll most likely backfire because, just like others here have already pointed out, it happens so quickly that if the opponent is performing any attack you are virtually guaranteed to walk right into it. This is just theory though. I am going to have to try it in real match situations before I can give any useful feedback.

--3, 3, 4 ~Teleport~d3, Shocker, 3, 3, 4, Electric Fly works, although f2 after the Teleport just doesn't work for me, but it didn't pre-patch either so this is not patch related. It just feels like an awkward input for me. It doesn't look you can connect a 3 after a Teleport. I am pretty sure d1~Shocker works also but the timing is more strict than d3.

So, final verdict: it seems there is some noticeable difference (in recovery time of Teleport) from before although I am not sure if that was due to me knowing of the 2 additional frames and therefore "seeing" it.

How does it feel for the rest of you guys? Do you get punished more? Do you have to adjust your gameplay because of it?

heres what i think.

Teleport Nerf- the teleport has some noticable differences and some that seem the same, like doing a sweep or b3 after teleport seems just barley slower while doing a jump or f2 after seems the same. also it doesnt seem like the added frames effect teleporting in strings that much, other than the occasional d1 punish, its still a good mix up. same goes for random teleport, its seems people punish a teleport with a d1 more often but not many normal strings and rarely do i get punished by a full combo on random teleport unless i get read good.

as for the combo situation, yes its harder to do 1 shocker after 334, i just do f2 now for consistency, but d3 shocker is very very easy. it just depend on how risky your feeling for that extra damage now. 1 shocker can lead to 41% but strict timing, f2 shocker is easier but still a little strict for 40% and d3 shocke for a sure thing but does 39% so just choose your preference. but if you end with an xray d3 and f2 scale the same for 48% damage. so if your ending with an xray id always go with d3 shocker instead of f2

Vicinity Blast nerf- destroyed, its 0 on block now, so really its only good for more safety on block, or to check soomeone trying to jump after for a combo

EX teleport- i use it all the time. first of all you can input a string DURING the second teleport, so a string can come out before the animation is over. it also cant be interupted during the animation so during a blocked string, if they try to punish than you'll go through there punish and your string will hit. also everyone is saying you can run right into an accidental punish with it, this has never happend to me. actually during a sub zero match, he kept trying to react to teleport with 22 to punish and he was doing a good job, so i ex teleported, and he didnt react until the second teleport so the 22 didnt come out until i was right in front of him, so i got punished right? wrong. i cancelled with f2 4 and the first 2 wiffed and my f2 went straight through the second 2 like i had armor or something and he ate my combo. so i dont think youll get accidently punished too often

 

[SGX]

This patch is just simply awful. At launch, Raiden was a good character because of his teleport and mobility. He has gotten minor nerfs in every patch and 0 buffs.
It's bad enough that both of his mobility options (air superman and teleport) have been nerfed, but the worst part about this character is that his strings don't even work properly. Both b+3,1,2 and 3,3,4 can be interrupted after the 2nd hit on block with either an X-Ray (most characters) or a fast special (KL spin or Reptile's dash) b+3,1 on its own is punishable on block (and for what reason?!) so you can't even stop the string and bait an attack.

I will be making a video soon to demonstrate moves on Raiden that don't even function correctly. None of this is new, but I'm sure it was all overlooked since this character had great mobility before the last few patches.

 

[Raidenwins]

This patch is just simply awful. At launch, Raiden was a good character because of his teleport and mobility. He has gotten minor nerfs in every patch and 0 buffs.
It's bad enough that both of his mobility options (air superman and teleport) have been nerfed, but the worst part about this character is that his strings don't even work properly. Both b+3,1,2 and 3,3,4 can be interrupted after the 2nd hit on block with either an X-Ray (most characters) or a fast special (KL spin or Reptile's dash) b+3,1 on its own is punishable on block (and for what reason?!) so you can't even stop the string and bait an attack.

I will be making a video soon to demonstrate moves on Raiden that don't even function correctly. None of this is new, but I'm sure it was all overlooked since this character had great mobility before the last few patches.

I agree with everything you said, except the 0 buffs statement. He did get 1 buff in the last patch, but in my opinion that does not make up for the fact they nerfed his greatest tool and completely took out his only viable Mid-Low mix-up. Here is what they should have done to Raiden if they were to actually balance him, as opposed to pandering to the whining MK community on this board and others:

1. Teleport was fine, there was no need to nerf it. I have already given my reasons for this on this message board and others.

2. Reduce the frame advantage of Vicinity Blast on block from 14 frames to about 1-3. Other than f2, 4 he has no other frames traps, and he had no other viable Mid-Low mix-ups. There was no need to completely take it out.

3. Make Vicinity Blast actually work correctly, as in hit all characters.

4. I don't like repeating myself on this, but his 2, f3, 1+2 and b1, f2, 1+2 combos are useless. They both hit High, High, High; have higher execution difficulty, AND you can't cancel any special moves after them. There is no point in using them, they are simply not viable. They should have made one of the hits in the combos hit Low or Mid, or made the last hits chargeable Unblockable or assigned it block stun properties, or given them a very fast start-up.

5. Make the last hit of 2, 2, f1 an overhead mid so it can be mixed with 2, 2, b4.

5. Make b3, 1, 2 and 3, 3, 4 uninterruptable.

 

[SGX]

I entirely agree with all of those things. I wouldn't even mind the nerfed tele if they fixed everything else.

Also, the hitbox on the first hit of 3,3,4 needs tweaking, because it too whiffs when it shouldn't.

 

[Vilén]

Now that Vicinity Blast lost it's frame advantage, it'd be nice if it could be retooled to actually function like the anti-air it was intended to be.

SGX is right about the string having a really wonky hitbox too.

 

[M2Dave]

I agree with everything you said, except the 0 buffs statement. He did get 1 buff in the last patch, but in my opinion that does not make up for the fact they nerfed his greatest tool and completely took out his only viable Mid-Low mix-up. Here is what they should have done to Raiden if they were to actually balance him, as opposed to pandering to the whining MK community on this board and others:

1. Teleport was fine, there was no need to nerf it. I have already given my reasons for this on this message board and others.

2. Reduce the frame advantage of Vicinity Blast on block from 14 frames to about 1-3. Other than f2, 4 he has no other frames traps, and he had no other viable Mid-Low mix-ups. There was no need to completely take it out.

3. Make Vicinity Blast actually work correctly, as in hit all characters.

4. I don't like repeating myself on this, but his 2, f3, 1+2 and b1, f2, 1+2 combos are useless. They both hit High, High, High; have higher execution difficulty, AND you can't cancel any special moves after them. There is no point in using them, they are simply not viable. They should have made one of the hits in the combos hit Low or Mid, or made the last hits chargeable Unblockable or assigned it block stun properties, or given them a very fast start-up.

5. Make the last hit of 2, 2, f1 an overhead mid so it can be mixed with 2, 2, b4.

5. Make b3, 1, 2 and 3, 3, 4 uninterruptable.

If Raiden had his old teleport, uninterruptable strings, other improved strings, and a +3 on block vicinity blast that hit all characters, he would be better than pre-patch Kung Lao. There is only so much buffing you can do to a character that you virtually cannot zone or trap.

How many bad match ups does Raiden currently have? Reptile? Maybe Kano and Johnny Cage? So, you guys possibly have two or three difficult match ups. Just like 95% of the roster.

Raiden is fine in my opinion. Use the teleport and see how your opponent reacts. Then start using the EX teleport. You can punish almost all retaliations with a combo because the move recovers instantly.

If Raiden had powerful frame traps, he would be broken for very obvious reasons. It is the same reason Sub Zero cannot zone. Or the same reason Noob's normal attacks are slow.

 

[Vilén]

If Raiden had his old teleport, uninterruptable strings, other improved strings, and a +3 on block vicinity blast that hit all characters, he would be better than pre-patch Kung Lao. There is only so much buffing you can do to a character that you virtually cannot zone or trap.

How many bad match ups does Raiden currently have? Reptile? Maybe Kano and Johnny Cage? So, you guys possibly have two or three difficult match ups. Just like 95% of the roster.

Raiden is fine in my opinion. Use the teleport and see how your opponent reacts. Then start using the EX teleport. You can punish almost all retaliations with a combo because the move recovers instantly.

If Raiden had powerful frame traps, he would be broken for very obvious reasons. It is the same reason Sub Zero cannot zone. Or the same reason Noob's normal attacks are slow.

I think some people might be of the mindset that interruptible strings probably should provide some form of advantage on block if they go uninterrupted, as they are... interruptible.

But since if you sniff out an attempt at interruption, you can cancel out with teleport, it's pretty okay the way it is.

 

[SGX]

I don't think Raiden needs powerful frame traps, but I also don't see any reason his 2 useful block strings are negative AND interruptable. b+3,1 xx teleport can be punished now, btw. It's tight, but it can be done.

The VB nerf isn't even that relevant to me. The hitbox on the move is so unreliable I'm afraid to use it against most of the cast.

 

[Raidenwins]

If Raiden had his old teleport, uninterruptable strings, other improved strings, and a +3 on block vicinity blast that hit all characters, he would be better than pre-patch Kung Lao. There is only so much buffing you can do to a character that you virtually cannot zone or trap.

How many bad match ups does Raiden currently have? Reptile? Maybe Kano and Johnny Cage? So, you guys possibly have two or three difficult match ups. Just like 95% of the roster.

Raiden is fine in my opinion. Use the teleport and see how your opponent reacts. Then start using the EX teleport. You can punish almost all retaliations with a combo because the move recovers instantly.

If Raiden had powerful frame traps, he would be broken for very obvious reasons. It is the same reason Sub Zero cannot zone. Or the same reason Noob's normal attacks are slow.

I forgot to mention that what they should have was either:

A) not touch teleport and only reduce the frame advantage of VB on block, but still leave it at + frames

or

B) if they messed with Teleport (which they did), they should have implemented #2+#3+#4+#5 from my earlier post

There is too much of importance placed on match-ups in all these nurfs/buffs threads. There seems to be this utophian idea floating in the air that every character should be viable against every character. This is just that..a utophia, and besides it would make for a boring game. Character tiers are fun and are more true to real life martial arts. In MKD Raiden wasn't a top tier character and I didn't complain, I just found ways to deal Bo and Dairou.

Instead of match-ups they should focus on character specialization. For example, there might be a character A that dominates a lot of the cast, and then there could be a character B that losses to most of the cast, but character B has a trump card against character A. For example, Stryker could have a anti-Kung-Lao-Spin move that has little use against all other characters but works very well against Kung Lao. I can elaborate more if people want to hear my idea.

 

[Raidenwins]

So, it's been confirmed by Tom Brady (at the Devastation stream yesterday), Vicinity Blast is no longer at advantage on block, meaning it is now most likely 0 frames (on block).

Another thing of note was that Justin Wong actually did make use of of EX-Teleport in one of his matches, in addition to confirming that the delay after teleporting is noticeable. After playing for about a week now, post-patch, I too can confirm that in certain situations, such as attempting Electric Fly, the 2 additional frames of teleport recovery are noticeable indeed. I have yet to find any real use for EX-Teleport though. If anybody else has had any success with that, could you post videos.

 

[Vilén]

In the Raiden mirror, :en teleport is gdlk.

 

[TendouTensei]

Hi guys !

I'm a raiden player, maybe u have seen my video...
This new patch is very disturbing for me, a lot of combos are no longer posible... a TP means punition ! The % of my wall combos have discrease up to 3%

I think I should find a new style, by using TP EX (I love this), probably Raiden will be better in "body to body"!

This patch is a new challenge !

Tendou

 

[Vilén]

a lot of combos are no longer posible

That's the opposite of true.

 

[shoshinsha]

Good showing by B W1zZ this weekend. I won't pick apart his play in detail, but he showed that ex teleport does have some uses. A number of times throughout the tourney I saw him use it to successfully bait a poke or punish and open his opponent up for damage. Of course, there were times that using it hurt him (either in damage or meter), but overall I liked what I saw.

 

[Vilén]

I don't think B W1zZ played defensively enough. Probably just me... I walk backwards like it gets me laid. Regardless, B W1zZ did great and hopefully had every Raiden player's full support.

 

[shoshinsha]

I don't think B W1zZ played defensively enough. Probably just me... I walk backwards like it gets me laid. Regardless, B W1zZ did great and hopefully had every Raiden player's full support.

Well said on all accounts. My thoughts exactly.

 

[littleogre]

That's the opposite of true.

Well i know tele to shocker is impossible now.

 

[Vilén]

Well i know tele to shocker is impossible now.

Going ~teleport, ~shocker has always been the optimum combo though. Pre-patch, connecting naked shocker off the teleport was a tight link, where as into shocker was hit confirmable, i.e. the better combo. And ~shocker after the ~teleport is still possible.

 

[Liu_Kang]

Can you guys please tell me the right time in the devastation video , whenTom Brady talks about Raiden more deeply?