For Honor

[Basic Stupidity]

Oh yeah I'm not trying to justify the debs actions. The game is fucked for the opposite reason it was before it sounds. It feels more like the game design itself makes it far to difficult to open people up, but then characters who are able to consistently open people up are broken? Idk.

I liked counter guard break back in the beta. It was challenging but not impossible, and was a good option to open people up with if you staggered it correctly. Feinting heavies, punishing parry attempts, and good footsies feel like what this game should revolve more around. When I last played it it was just a cluster of unblockable 50/50s and unreactable flickers.

no the devs fucked it beyond redeemable. they listened to the turtle feedback but instead attempted to fix it by making the new characters broke and the old ones got nothing. and they handled it completely wrong giving the new characters and buffs crazy 50/50s and tried to change the meta as a whole at the same time. but then they found out that they cant change the meta as a whole when some characters have legit 50/50s while others literally had nothing because they both would benefit from the meta change. they only widened the gap between the characters beyond repair.

really the problem was the devs and the community. the community needed a well established and trusted competitive scene and not the dumbasses they have now that dont understand the game and dont lab and talk out of their asses. and the devs needed to actually listen to that competitive scene.

I honestly hope that one day the game can be fixed because i was the best at it lmao. nobody understood the damn thing when it came out and i took every tourney i played in. but i stopped playing when literally every patch made the game worse.

 

[Cursa]

no the devs fucked it beyond redeemable. they listened to the turtle feedback but instead attempted to fix it by making the new characters broke and the old ones got nothing. and they handled it completely wrong giving the new characters and buffs crazy 50/50s and tried to change the meta as a whole at the same time. but then they found out that they cant change the meta as a whole when some characters have legit 50/50s while others literally had nothing. they only widened the gap between the characters beyond repair.

really the problem was the devs and the community. the community needed a well established and trusted competitive scene and not the dumbasses they have now that dont understand the game and dont lab and talk out of their asses. and the devs needed to actually listen to that competitive scene.

I honestly hope that one day the game can be fixed because i was the best at it lmao. nobody understood the damn thing when it came out and i took every tourney i played in. but i stopped playing when literally every patch made the game worse.

Yes, I am agreeing with you that the developers fucked it but they can fix it. Give the shitty characters something to open people up with and the random unblockable 50/50s need to either be removed or toned down. The game should be able opening up your opponent using patience, baiting attacks, and guard breaks (I seriously hope they make guard break counters harder but less rewarding as a result(i.e ledge kills)). I don't think that for honour is a game where you should be able to sit still and react to basically everything that is thrown at you and punish your opponent for trying to play the game, but it should just be yolo 50/50s with a shugoki running in circles making you guess between charging or not charging.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Yes, I am agreeing with you that the developers fucked it but they can fix it. Give the shitty characters something to open people up with and the random unblockable 50/50s need to either be removed or toned down. The game should be able opening up your opponent using patience, baiting attacks, and guard breaks (I seriously hope they make guard break counters harder but less rewarding as a result(i.e ledge kills)). I don't think that for honour is a game where you should be able to sit still and react to basically everything that is thrown at you and punish your opponent for trying to play the game, but it should just be yolo 50/50s with a shugoki running in circles making you guess between charging or not charging.

the problem isnt necessarily the 50/50s its the risk and reward of the 50/50s. going for parrys is a 50/50 but the risk far outweighs the reward at its current state. why take a risk of getting opened up if you can just sit there and block. this led to them making all of the unblockable 50/50s but this lead to any character not having a good unblockable 50/50 and no unreactable move completely useless. the game needs to get rid of the 50/50s that are currently in the game and do a complete rebalance.

step 1: remove all unblockable 50/50s
step 2: create heavies so that they do really good and actually substantial damage on block not like what they actually do and what they tried to do.
step 3: make it so parrying heavies negates all chip damage
step 4: balance all characters around this meta

its really not that hard this would create a fun and exciting game easily. there would be a real reason to go for a parry instead of just blocking everytime and then this would lead to the intended meta of punishing parrys on read with feints into grabs or reversal parries. there would be a fair and fun meta and risk and reward to both offense and defense and would even create a new playstyle of hybrids of defensive play with quick pokes that catch people only going for heavies and a hybrid of both defensive and offensive where you actually play both. instead what is now is just a braindead mess of either pure offense or pure defense.

 

[Cursa]

the problem isnt necessarily the 50/50s its the risk and reward of the 50/50s. going for parrys is a 50/50 but the risk far outweighs the reward. the game needs to get rid of the 50/50s that are currently in the game and do a complete rebalance.

step 1: remove all unblockable 50/50s
step 2: create heavies so that they do really good and actually substantial damage on block not like what they actually do and what they tried to do.
step 3: make it so parrying heavies negates all chip damage
step 4: balance all characters around this meta

its really not that hard this would create a fun and exciting game easily. there would be a real reason to go for a parry instead of just blocking everytime and then this would lead to the intended meta of punishing parrys on read with feints into grabs or reversal parries. there would be a fair and fun meta and risk and reward to both offense and defense and would even create a new playstyle of hybrids of defensive play with quick jabs and a hybrid of both defensive and offensive. instead of what is now which is just a braindead mess of either pure offense or pure defense.

Agreed, something that punished defensive players if all they do is block and punish. Chip damage is a good option since you shouldn't be punished for blocking in general, but it stacks up if blocking is all you do. Parrying was in a pretty good spot when I last played the game, which was towards the middle of season 2 I think? But maybe a few small changes to it would be good.

I think the only thing that would have to be careful around this is keeping characters fresh. I think some characters should have unblockables just to mix the bag a little in terms of characters, like the shugoki has a high risk/high reward unblockable which can kill if he makes a very hard read. The mixup of his charge/no charge or whatever it was (I didn't look too hard into it) deserved to be removed, but I think his unblock able is fine, There isn't really a mixup since it's slow as balls but it has uses such as hitting it off wall stuns and whatnot. Stuff like that is what every character needs.

Nobushi has her range and should be played in a way that prevents enemies from being able to counter after an attack is blocked, or make it difficult to do something off of a parry.

Warden has his vortex which is a little too easy to get going I think but it's whatever to me really.

Raider has his charge which I find kind of trash if his charge mixup is no longer a thing.

Berserker just has his thing going with his armour and feints and whatnot.

Etc etc etc.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Agreed, something that punished defensive players if all they do is block and punish. Chip damage is a good option since you shouldn't be punished for blocking in general, but it stacks up if blocking is all you do. Parrying was in a pretty good spot when I last played the game, which was towards the middle of season 2 I think? But maybe a few small changes to it would be good.

I think the only thing that would have to be careful around this is keeping characters fresh. I think some characters should have unblockables just to mix the bag a little in terms of characters, like the shugoki has a high risk/high reward unblockable which can kill if he makes a very hard read. The mixup of his charge/no charge or whatever it was (I didn't look too hard into it) deserved to be removed, but I think his unblock able is fine, There isn't really a mixup since it's slow as balls but it has uses such as hitting it off wall stuns and whatnot. Stuff like that is what every character needs.

Nobushi has her range and should be played in a way that prevents enemies from being able to counter after an attack is blocked, or make it difficult to do something off of a parry.

Warden has his vortex which is a little too easy to get going I think but it's whatever to me really.

Raider has his charge which I find kind of trash if his charge mixup is no longer a thing.

Berserker just has his thing going with his armour and feints and whatnot.

Etc etc etc.

yea no this is the problem you cant leave that stuff in youd have to take it out and then completely redesign the unblockable system after the new changes are implemented. why would i ever play nobushi over warden if he had the chip buff and the 50/50s if all nobushi has is the chip buff. its would need to be completely redesigned.

youd need to see how the characters preform with the new meta change and then add new layers not keep the layers and see what happens.

 

[Cursa]

yea no this is the problem you cant leave that stuff in youd have to take it out and then completely redesign the unblockable system after the new changes are implemented. why would i ever play nobushi over warden if he had the chip buff and the 50/50s if all nobushi has is the chip buff. its would need to be completely redesigned.

youd need to see how the characters preform with the new meta change and then add new layers not keep the layers and see what happens.

Well if they made range an actual tool in the game then nobushi would have a reason to be picked over warden. If you space yourself correctly it would make being punished hard, some characters already can't get a guard break off of a parry against a well spaced nobushi. If they buffed that aspect of her so that it is an actually useful tool that could be effective enough to warrant changing characters for a certain matchup. Like Wardens vortex is nice and all, but maybe if you were getting bodied by a good berserker you might pick nobushi if her range was useful enough to be more useful for that particular matchup.

This is just one example, the shit characters need something powerful that warrants using them over the current top characters.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Well if they made range an actual tool in the game then nobushi would have a reason to be picked over warden. If you space yourself correctly it would make being punished hard, some characters already can't get a guard break off of a parry against a well spaced nobushi. If they buffed that aspect of her so that it is an actually useful tool that could be effective enough to warrant changing characters for a certain matchup. Like Wardens vortex is nice and all, but maybe if you were getting bodied by a good berserker you might pick nobushi if her range was useful enough to be more useful for that particular matchup.

This is just one example, the shit characters need something powerful that warrants using them over the current top characters.

range is already a factor in this game and its clearly noticeable if you play nobushi. but clearly range is not enough and again its not like im saying get rid of unblockables completely im saying get rid of them until they can sort out the balance and adjust them all accordingly. im saying this for all the characters tools too not just unblockables. but something they have failed to do is adjust the unblockables with attempted meta changes and when they dont take them out when looking over the meta it always leaves the characters without them in a huge disadvantage. the point of using the example was to show that clearly warden vortex is much better than nobushi sometimes not getting heavily punished on her heavies. of course theyd need to balance them both but when forming the meta you form it and then build upon it not form it around a mechanic that was added in.

 

[GAV]

I'm very glad @Cursa and @Basic Stupidity aren't the developers.

 

[GAV]

 

[Basic Stupidity]

friendly reminder that this game could have been good and was ruined into a complete casual mess

 

[GAV]

 

[Saboteur-6]

@GAV So what's the state of the game these days? I've been curious to check out the new characters. Did the 4v4 mode evolve any? Any news on character balancing? How big of a disadvantage would I be with my low level shit gear trying to play?

 

[Cursa]

@GAV So what's the state of the game these days? I've been curious to check out the new characters. Did the 4v4 mode evolve any? Any news on character balancing? How big of a disadvantage would I be with my low level shit gear trying to play?

4v4 is still pretty much a gankfest, at least in terms of dominion which is my most player game mode. Because of that I can't say much on the character balance for 1v1 but pretty much anyone with good CC abilities is pretty good in 4v4.

 

[GAV]

@GAV So what's the state of the game these days? I've been curious to check out the new characters. Did the 4v4 mode evolve any? Any news on character balancing? How big of a disadvantage would I be with my low level shit gear trying to play?

The game seems pretty balanced to me. Shaman is OP, but everyone else is relatively even. As far as playing with no gear, its definitely a disadvantage - but not like it was early on. Most players go with no D builds because defense penetration negates defense anyway, so you'll be doing less damage - but you can still kill by just landing one extra heavy or two lights. Just play more defensive and avoid Conquerors, Warlords, and Lawbringers because they run defense builds. I rolled through no gear easily with Raider, because of his damage, and Shaman, because she's OP.

 

[GAV]

4v4 is still pretty much a gankfest, at least in terms of dominion which is my most player game mode. Because of that I can't say much on the character balance for 1v1 but pretty much anyone with good CC abilities is pretty good in 4v4.

Whenever I run into a gank squad, I go to a few select revenge builds and that stops that in its tracks.

 

[Saboteur-6]

The game seems pretty balanced to me. Shaman is OP, but everyone else is relatively even. As far as playing with no gear, its definitely a disadvantage - but not like it was early on. Most players go with no D builds because defense penetration negates defense anyway, so you'll be doing less damage - but you can still kill by just landing one extra heavy or two lights. Just play more defensive and avoid Conquerors, Warlords, and Lawbringers because they run defense builds. I rolled through no gear easily with Raider, because of his damage, and Shaman, because she's OP.

I have like 0 gear and it went somewhat ok. Trying to learn Valkyrie, Shinobi, and then Centurion. How do Berserker and Peacekeeper fair?

 

[GAV]

I have like 0 gear and it went somewhat ok. Trying to learn Valkyrie, Shinobi, and then Centurion. How do Berserker and Peacekeeper fair?

Valkyrie has great mixups on offense. Shinobi plays the best keep away. Centurion has the best stand-and-bang. Berzerker is played by side dodging light into his mixups and using feints to land GBs and deflects. Peacekeeper is the best at hit and run. All of your character choices are straight damage dealers. None of them involve attacking stamina before going in, so just be patient and you will do just fine - even without gear.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

4v4 is still pretty much a gankfest, at least in terms of dominion which is my most player game mode. Because of that I can't say much on the character balance for 1v1 but pretty much anyone with good CC abilities is pretty good in 4v4.

IMO For Honor has never been a good fighting game and I wish the community at large would stop trying to compare it to traditional fighting games. The team modes are always where everything actually works, but everyone just fucking complains about duels.

 

[Cursa]

IMO For Honor has never been a good fighting game and I wish the community at large would stop trying to compare it to traditional fighting games. The team modes are always where everything actually works, but everyone just fucking complains about duels.

I don't play duels that much but if all the stuff I've heard about unlock tech and what not have been removed then I can imagine it isn't terrible. Like yeah some characters are obviously much better than others and it's not the best balanced game but it's better than when it first came out imo

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

I don't play duels that much but if all the stuff I've heard about unlock tech and what not have been removed then I can imagine it isn't terrible. Like yeah some characters are obviously much better than others and it's not the best balanced game but it's better than when it first came out imo

Unlock tech is fixed, people will keep complaining about duels though. Since some characters can't "open up" turtling opponents in duels, they're viewed as irredeemably terrible. There's still a tier list for characters in the team modes, but everyone is viable. In team modes "turtling" isn't a thing you need to worry about that much because you have so many external pressures (other players, objectives, time). Looking at how the game is designed (very short time-to-kill relative to traditional fighting games, some characters with very limited offensive options) it seems like it was designed for Dominion from the ground up, they must have thrown in Duels as a fun distraction but the community took it way too seriously.

 

[freerf245]

This game was so close to being amazing. I still think its fun to play.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

This game was so close to being amazing. I still think its fun to play.

Oh for sure, it's one of my favorite games of the past few years for sure. It scratches so many of my itches: nice combo of MOBA teamplay with just enough depth in the fighting system to support a high skill ceiling. Started out rough but stabilized after a few months. I resent the community more than anything.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Oh for sure, it's one of my favorite games of the past few years for sure. It scratches so many of my itches: nice combo of MOBA teamplay with just enough depth in the fighting system to support a high skill ceiling. Started out rough but stabilized after a few months. I resent the community more than anything.

Where's the bulk of the community located at? Like who should I get with to level up?

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

Where's the bulk of the community located at? Like who should I get with to level up?

I'm not entirely sure. I play on PC and I troll r/ForHonor (mostly circle jerk posts, lots of highlights, but the devs are more active there) and r/CompetitiveForHonor (more "serious" discussion of gameplay but just as much misinformation). Don't know if there's any big Discord communities or the like.

 

[GAV]

Where's the bulk of the community located at? Like who should I get with to level up?

Dominion...

If you're on XB, join For Honor Legends - the community.