follow-ups shorter than the first attack, that's why we have whiffing issues

[Rathalos]

If anything they should reduce the hitbox on the first hit.

 

[CrazyFingers]

If anything they should reduce the hitbox on the first hit.

Nah the second hit should have that range too

 

[omooba]

That is why most scrubs though MKX string mechanics were fine lol.

There is nothing wrong with scarecrow's follow-up, as far as i saw, its working as intended.
The character has a disjointed hitbox which he uses to fight mid range and has advancing strings from it, its only natural that you can't just throw them out there and expect to hit without no space calculations.

Love the concept, lets just hope NRS stick to their design rules.

dude i literally have no words at this point. you're acting like the move goes 3/4 of the screen and is unavoidable so you just have to hold it. there's no mkx string you couldn't deal with. tremor's was probably the worst and you still couldn't throw it out against good players. this shit is dum because it doesn't actually accomplish anything. the only time you would notice this whiffing is on hit and you can account for that by option selecting a special. so if this really is a design choice(doubt it) it's pretty stupid cus it's just a nuisance. not even saying make the whole string advance just make the shit connect jeez. how is this even something we have to argue about? so d'vorah's f1,1 whiffing when you use it to catch a backdash that's fine too right? bruh

Reminds me of Kung Jin's b14 string, first hit has way more range than the second making the string miss if you do it a max range. This forces you to either commit to a cancel early by simply doing b1 xx whatever, or you do the string from a closer distance that you know b14 won't miss in.
Ofc there was a third option of going Shaolin and having b12 which reaches from max range b1 but that's another story.

Point is, I think it's intentional which is why he does a small range stationary uppercut, you're supposed to cancel the first hit into breath/spin sickle or do the whole string when you're a bit closer and not at max range.

There's also the fact that I'm sure they're still working on adjusting the hitboxes, there's already a few moves that don't really hit the way they look like they should like Fate's b2 i think? the anti-air beam that whiffed in all their attempts to show how it can AA. There's also Firestorm's fire circle thing that only hits in front of him where it "should" hit all directions.

kung jin's b1,4 gave you a 50/50 big diffirence.

 

[omooba]

If anything they should reduce the hitbox on the first hit.

i would damn near take reducing the hitbox over leaving this whiffing shit. but nah screw that lol gimme the broke

 

[P3irce]

i'm a huge fan of pre-release discussion but don't yall think this specific topic being shown, on most likely an old build is a poor representation of what the game will be? They haven't even adjusted what the scaling for combos let alone something like whiffing certain string at specific ranges which comparatively is a smaller issue. If it is a bug then it will most likely be adjusted by the time the game comes out / when playerbase actually has game and can provide feedback

imo that gif looks like scarecrow not spacing correctly

 

[Madog32]

i'm a huge fan of pre-release discussion but don't yall think this specific topic being shown, on most likely an old build is a poor representation of what the game will be? They haven't even adjusted what the scaling for combos let alone something like whiffing certain string at specific ranges which comparatively is a smaller issue. If it is a bug then it will most likely be adjusted by the time the game comes out / when playerbase actually has game and can provide feedback

imo that gif looks like scarecrow not spacing correctly

Right? The logical "fix" for this is to reduce the range of the first hit. But I'm sure that wouldn't pass for anything less than a nerf here, upsetting even more ppl. Scarecrow mains should be happy its working the way it does right now, and hope its not "fixed" in final release, because I doubt anyone will like the alternative either.

But we'll see

Edit: @Shaka sorry - dunno why it said I quoted you when I quoted P3irce

 

[P3irce]

Right? The logical "fix" for this is to reduce the range of the first hit. But I'm sure that wouldn't pass for anything less than a nerf here, upsetting even more ppl. Scarecrow mains should be happy its working the way it does right now, and hope its not "fixed" in final release, because I doubt anyone will like the alternative either.

But we'll see

it's a bit interesting case anyways with scarecrow's special with the swinging hook that makes a long range move like this already semi hit confirmable as the special can be meterburned and you can also walk back which may make it safer. that being said this is all speculation so only time will tell

frankly i'm just excited that we as a community have another opportunity to grow and expand with this next game coming out, something that i feel is overlooked on TYM

 

[omooba]

i'm a huge fan of pre-release discussion but don't yall think this specific topic being shown, on most likely an old build is a poor representation of what the game will be? They haven't even adjusted what the scaling for combos let alone something like whiffing certain string at specific ranges which comparatively is a smaller issue. If it is a bug then it will most likely be adjusted by the time the game comes out / when playerbase actually has game and can provide feedback

imo that gif looks like scarecrow not spacing correctly

i would agree if we didn't still have this issue rampant in mkx. and even damage scaling was an issue for a while with multiple patches to fix moves that 'weren't scaling properly'. at this point i don't think anything is too small to overlook

 

[P3irce]

i would agree if we didn't still have this issue rampant in mkx. and even damage scaling was an issue for a while with multiple patches to fix moves that 'weren't scaling properly'. at this point i don't think anything is too small to overlook

I agree to a certain degree, i'm sure everyone here could find something they hate about NRS games whether that be related to design choices we disagree with or mechanic issues, but it's so difficult to make accurate predictions when the game isn't out and we know that these streams are run on old builds. Think about how much change has gone from the first tidbits of gameplay to now, the game is significantly difficult.

that being said having discourse about topics like this is important but it creates a situation where people who are very passionate about this game they love end up being very aggressive about their opinions and create this negative back and forth response cycle that doesn't resolve anything because we don't have the actual game yet. I think as a community we need to understand that this game will change and just be open to the possibility that the mechanic we are seeing and possibly disagreeing with may be completely revamped by release date, lets be positive ya know. I've enjoyed Mk9 - MKX and i expect to enjoy inj2 so lets trust the company that we have enjoyed these past years if at the end of the day it is a real issue then we have the ability to communicate this once the game is released

 

[omooba]

having discourse about topics like this is important but it creates a situation where people who are very passionate about this game they love end up being very aggressive about their opinions and create this negative back and forth response cycle that doesn't resolve anything

yeah you're right i'm out piece p3irce

 

[Eddy Wang]

dude i literally have no words at this point. you're acting like the move goes 3/4 of the screen and is unavoidable so you just have to hold it. there's no mkx string you couldn't deal with. tremor's was probably the worst and you still couldn't throw it out against good players. this shit is dum because it doesn't actually accomplish anything. the only time you would notice this whiffing is on hit and you can account for that by option selecting a special. so if this really is a design choice(doubt it) it's pretty stupid cus it's just a nuisance. not even saying make the whole string advance just make the shit connect jeez. how is this even something we have to argue about? so d'vorah's f1,1 whiffing when you use it to catch a backdash that's fine too right? bruh


kung jin's b1,4 gave you a 50/50 big diffirence.

Now you know how Kung Lao F23 felt all these years.

 

[x TeeJay o]

I mean it could be intentional and that would be fine but still it's nrs so who knows lul shoutouts to scarecrow players explore this terror guise lul

I fucking laughed way too hard at this lmfao I can't stand you

 

[omooba]

Now you know how Kung Lao F23 felt all these years.

that shouldn't be in the game either. u can't use the fact that this shit is bad to justify shit just being bad from now on. and lao had options like f2,1 d'vorah didn't have anything to account for f1,1 whiffing especially cus brood mother can't combo f2,2 at max range

 

[Eldriken]

After watching the gif that was posted, why would ANYONE expect the second hit of the string to land when it's THAT far away from the opponent?

People bitch and moan about the phantom hitboxes and such in NRS games, yet when it comes down to their character or a potential character of theirs, oh my fucking God, you had best not let something like this go without a massive phantom hitbox.

The second hit didn't make contact due to improper spacing, so it should not count as a hit. Why is that wrong? If it whiffed when you were point blank or your arm goes straight through the character, then yes, bitch, rant and rave all you want. But that clearly did not happen here.

His hand = no contact with the character = the hit shouldn't count.

Maybe this is "working as intended" or maybe it isn't and it will get fixed. We have to wait and see. But if this is how it's supposed to be, well, suck it up and get over it like an adult.

 

[omooba]

After watching the gif that was posted, why would ANYONE expect the second hit of the string to land when it's THAT far away from the opponent?

People bitch and moan about the phantom hitboxes and such in NRS games, yet when it comes down to their character or a potential character of theirs, oh my fucking God, you had best not let something like this go without a massive phantom hitbox.

The second hit didn't make contact due to improper spacing, so it should not count as a hit. Why is that wrong? If it whiffed when you were point blank or your arm goes straight through the character, then yes, bitch, rant and rave all you want. But that clearly did not happen here.

His hand = no contact with the character = the hit shouldn't count.

not bitching about not having a phantom hitbox. bitching about the string whiffing. that's not the same thing. and people keep throwing out "improper spacing" when it really isn't. not only can you still combo from that range with a special it's probably less minus on block cus that shit looks slightly meaty. the 2nd hit whiffing is just an unnecessary nuisance it does nothing else literally nothing else

 

[LaidbackOne]

Now you know how Kung Lao F23 felt all these years.

Lol, this comment is derp gold.

 

[trufenix]

How is there an argument for if the first hit lands the second should hit always no matter what spacing. Why even have hit boxes?

 

[navaroNe]

so, watching the scarecrow's breakdown from yesterday's night stream in this video, 49 seconds in:

youtu.be/nLxpKN0lGFE?t=49

we can clearly see the second time it's executed, the mid starting string hits but whiffs on the second hit
now, it's clear that the third hit can still be blocked because the combo counter does not increase

this is the same exact problem we have in mkx with a few characters, situations, attack

the problem might be that the followup of a long range attack has shorter range/hitbox than the previous with obvious consequences
this alone would fix a lot of problems in mkx and apparently even in injustice2

please spare me the bs:

- it's a beta
- might be an older build
- let's see on release

we have these problems since forever and probably still will

Couldn't agree more. I have a big problem with strings that share this issue , such as batmans 223 string which for some reason has a high for the second hit causing it to be very inconsistent. What really bothers me is when they give a character only one decent mid starter but the starter has problems such as this so you are forced to use more consistent high starter strings. I hate inconsistencies in fighting games, shouldn't have to worry about your second hit whiffing and I can only imagine how annoying it will be against some of the smaller hit box characters so I'd definitely like to see this problem addressed across the board

 

[Eddy Wang]

that shouldn't be in the game either. u can't use the fact that this shit is bad to justify shit just being bad from now on. and lao had options like f2,1 d'vorah didn't have anything to account for f1,1 whiffing especially cus brood mother can't combo f2,2 at max range

F21 its not a natural combo starter either which is the whole point of MKX lol.

Just look at the range guys, doesn't that F2 looks like max ranged on the second example, like it went an entire dash distance and the tip of the range has hit batman making the second stage of the string whiff.

How is this a bug? It looks fine to me. #WorkingAsIntented

*Getting more popcorn* LMAO

 

[omooba]

k

 

[SHAOLIN]

People have played NRS games for so long that think hitbox & hurtbox issues, glitches & bugs are "intentional". . .

 

[Marinjuana]

People can frame this different ways if they want but the bottom line is that this sort of stuff is wonky. It doesn't matter if it comes off a t-rex-arm normal or a fullscreen mid. If this is the only case then sure no big deal, but there were multiple cases of this stuff in MKX and Injustice 1 and it didn't benefit gameplay.

 

[Madog32]

"space it better"

> slightest move backwards or forwards determines the outcome

> is a neutral button so your opponent will always be able to do either, when used at the range its meant to be used at


this is, at best, intentional, so giving the benefit of the doubt there that just makes it poor design, involving more random factors instead of consistency in a freaking fighter

inb4 I'm whining for scarecrow buffs, nope this character looks lame as shit to me, slow ass buttons and that chain swing as a starter, ehhhhhh af

I don't care whether the response is fixing the second hit or buffing the first, just make it consistent. Having a wildcard guess on how the spacing ended up connecting as to your optimal follow-up/response on both offense AND defense is dumb as fuck

I hear ya. And I honestly won't be playing this guy either. I just think there could be a line drawn between normals and combos that would require better spacing from the user in order to implement. What you are defining as an inconsistency just doesn't seem to apply. It will consistently whiff at max range, and consistently hit at the proper range. If he was swinging through his opponent every time but whiffing randomly, then id say its more of a johnny-esque situation. To me, it can clearly be defined as a spacing issue.

But to each his own

 

[Tony at Home]

From what I can see, the second hit whiffed because it should have whiffed.

I don't recall it ever being a gaurantee that first hit means every single option afterwards will hit.

Sonya's 121 middle hit whiffs on block at max range.

Its a legitimate way to balance a string.

 

[God Confirm]

I hear ya. And I honestly won't be playing this guy either. I just think there could be a line drawn between normals and combos that would require better spacing from the user in order to implement. What you are defining as an inconsistency just doesn't seem to apply. It will consistently whiff at max range, and consistently hit at the proper range. If he was swinging through his opponent every time but whiffing randomly, then id say its more of a johnny-esque situation. To me, it can clearly be defined as a spacing issue.

But to each his own

i disagree but i respect the candour in which you deliver your perspective