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(un)balanced_kenshi

(un)balanced_kenshi

NJP-Spammer
I GOT HANDS said:
Possessed is my last familiar variation of Kenshi but I'm not completely unfamiliar, I've learned all the buttons and combos (for what it's worth). I feel like looking at him saying "oh his specials go straight through clone" is alright in theory, but it forgets that a good Sub is never going to clone at mid to half screen, and Sub still controls the space and gets in way to easily with Slide and Ex Slide against Kenshi, and just like Balanced he gets wrecked up close by Sub. A good Sub is never going to even consider throwing a Clone up anywhere but in counter-poke range or in the corner, he's just going to do what every other character does and try get in if he's full screen, and that's somethin he does way better than most other characters. Kenjutsu I think is probably slanted in Kenjutsus favour, but think the other two are 7-3 stomps for Sub tbqh. I know Balanced is a stomp, as I said I'm less familiar with Possessed, does he have anything Balanced doesn't for this match up?
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sickle lift is a better anti-air and safer than rising karma. teleport makes it impossible for sub to use iceball behind clone or throw clone. i dont know about "good subs", i haven't played madzin or lord brady yet, but i played rvb, and he isn't that bad. i find possessed to be a better choice than my go-to sorcerer
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
(un)balanced_kenshi said:
sickle lift is a better anti-air and safer than rising karma. teleport makes it impossible for sub to use iceball behind clone or throw clone. i dont know about "good subs", i haven't played madzin or lord brady yet, but i played rvb, and he isn't that bad. i find possessed to be a better choice than my go-to sorcerer
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Why... Why would you even try playing a full screen game against Kenshi tho? Or hiding behind a Clone? You use your Slide to get in against his zoning, armoured if necessary, and then wreck him up close.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I GOT HANDS said:
Raiden maybe, Sonya possibly - Reptile and Kitana, no chance. But even with all four you still need 1 more for him to even be breaking into the very cusp of the top half of the roster.

Takeda, absolutely no chance in my mind. Takeda is top 10 to me and quite possibly top 5. And this is from someone who called him the worst character in the game not long ago, the patches have been incredibly kind to him. As time goes on, we'll be seeing more of this character. His footsies are freaking amazing.
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Ok. Ill educate myself more on takeda before talking about him but ill take your word for it. The only characters i can think of that are easily better are in no order:
1. Lao(temp mabye buzz)
2. Liu(barely)
3. Tanya(kobu)
4. Cassie(maybe not brawler)
5. Predator(not warrior)
6. Shinnok
7. Takeda
8. Erron
9. D'vorah(swarm maybe venom)
10. Quan Chi
That was only the grandmaster varient i was talking about, cryo helps make 3-7s like dvorah and quan closer to 4-6. I straight up think hes better than kitana unless people love to jump. Even though he might be bottom half he still shares a tier with a bit of the characters who are better, so hes still competitive with those characters.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
@I GOT HANDS yeah, I think if SZ gets the corner, he should win. The throw/ clone trap and armor breaking techs together limit an opponents options so severely. That and his corner damage is just so high off a 50/50... When the dust settles, Quan gets his nerfs, Sub gets his fixes, he'll be top 10.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Kitana isn't just a gimmick that catches people who like to jump. She's an excellent top tier character even if your opponent never jumps once. I think she definitely belongs on your list. I also think Reptile belongs up there without a doubt, as does Tremor, I would put both above characters like Tanya and Erron.

Other than that I actually agree. They ARE the characters that are hands down better than Sub. Sub sits at a power level of the ones slightly below those ones, like Jax, Scorp, Sonya, etc. He may actually be better than a couple of them. I just don't think he's better than enough of them to be top half of the cast. Maybe "undeniably" top half was a very strong term to use, I can see the argument for, I just can't agree with what I personally know and believe.


Ree301 said:
@I GOT HANDS yeah, I think if SZ gets the corner, he should win. The throw/ clone trap and armor breaking techs together limit an opponents options so severely. That and his corner damage is just so high off a 50/50... When the dust settles, Quan gets his nerfs, Sub gets his fixes, he'll be top 10.
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I mean, it's still a punishable 50/50 off the better option, it's also one of the easiest 50/50s to fuzzy... But I think it's important to remember that with a Clone up, it's not a 50/50, it's genuinely a 33/33/33 because Throw is legitimately a combo starter. This is where his strength lies IMO. His corner game is undeniably strong, and his wallcarry, space control and options to get in and very plentiful, maybe you are right. Quan however was a terrible match up before the buffs and will still be able to nerfs. He will get out every single time on a single correct read of the 50/50. Maybe time will tell on Sub as a whole however. He can definitely win even against his worst match ups.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
@Dankster Morgan yeah dude definitely take a closer look at Takeda, specifically Ronin. He has an Overhead that is the same frames as Kung Lao's F2, reaches further, second hit is a low, and goes into excellent pressure on block. He has what Lao doesn't have, in a great backdash to support it. That's only part of what makes this character awesome. He is top 5 to me top 10 at worst.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I GOT HANDS said:
@Dankster Morgan yeah dude definitely take a closer look at Takeda, specifically Ronin. He has an Overhead that is the same frames as Kung Lao's F2, reaches further, second hit is a low, and goes into excellent pressure on block. He has what Lao doesn't have, in a great backdash to support it. That's only part of what makes this character awesome. He is top 5 to me top 10 at worst.
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Iv always been entriuged by SR and i was looking for a third character so ill try takeda.
 
RagingRicans

RagingRicans

NetBattles
Sub zero is definitely better than Sonya and scorpion on my opinion.

Sorry, I'm not really reading everything just skimming through comments lol
 
RVB

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
I GOT HANDS said:
Why... Why would you even try playing a full screen game against Kenshi tho? Or hiding behind a Clone? You use your Slide to get in against his zoning, armoured if necessary, and then wreck him up close.
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It's because I'm bad at playing GM lol plus I have no familiarity with Kenshi apart from a few games vs @Immortal and now recently @(un)balanced_kenshi
It will get better as time passes by I guess.

BUT me being shit at the game does not excuse the following:

Thanks to @Ree301 for reminding me of this crap that has been going on for a long time yet no one said a thing about it, I'm talking about how autoblock happens when you try and do a close klone shatter with a regular or EX version of Ice Burst from b33, f33 and 12 strings.
WARNING DUMB SHIT HAPPENS IN THE VIDEO BELOW!!!

Pretty funny huh and to continue the funny streak here's what happens if you somehow decide to EX Slide your opponent into EX Klone.

@Tom Brady :DOGE
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
No doubt, wasn't a shot at you in any way RvB, I'm just saying how playing like apthat is how you lose a winning match up against Kenshi and I don think the experience you guys had is accurate representation of somethin hat should be all rights be a stomp for Sub ASSUMING both players know the match up properly, so I don't Uni his explanation for why Kenshi goes even with Sub actually works
 
RVB

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
I GOT HANDS said:
No doubt, wasn't a shot at you in any way RvB, I'm just saying how playing like apthat is how you lose a winning match up against Kenshi and I don think the experience you guys had is accurate representation of somethin hat should be all rights be a stomp for Sub ASSUMING both players know the match up properly, so I don't Uni his explanation for why Kenshi goes even with Sub actually works
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oh don't get me wrong no offense taken I was just letting everyone know that they shouldn't be judging how good their character is when they win vs me lol.
I'm the guy that does klone then EX Slide just to shout out KOBE when I do it JUST SAYIN'!!! :DOGE
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
RVB said:
It's because I'm bad at playing GM lol plus I have no familiarity with Kenshi apart from a few games vs @Immortal and now recently @(un)balanced_kenshi
It will get better as time passes by I guess.

BUT me being shit at the game does not excuse the following:

Thanks to @Ree301 for reminding me of this crap that has been going on for a long time yet no one said a thing about it, I'm talking about how autoblock happens when you try and do a close klone shatter with a regular or EX version of Ice Burst from b33, f33 and 12 strings.
WARNING DUMB SHIT HAPPENS IN THE VIDEO BELOW!!!

Pretty funny huh and to continue the funny streak here's what happens if you somehow decide to EX Slide your opponent into EX Klone.

@Tom Brady :DOGE
Click to expand...
...lol

I think it's a result of the clone being too close and there's some weird interaction on hit? I have no idea why that would cause auto-block, though...
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
And that auto block makes MB frost bomb very punishable in that situation (@M.D. would have you believe otherwise:DOGE). Imagine that, we're punishable on a hit confirm that we spent a bar for no less... What a time to be alive.
 
HuttonMD

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
@I GOT HANDS

This isn't the place to get into MU so I won't get into it to much but kano definitely is not a loosing MU to GM.

Kano knives in cyber blow up clone and exknives go through and hit sub zero and kano can armor through the clone in corner pretty easy. I think its either 5-5 or 6-4 in kano favor but that's just my opinion
 
STB BroZki

STB BroZki

Don’t know what to put here
HuttonMD said:
@I GOT HANDS

This isn't the place to get into MU so I won't get into it to much but kano definitely is not a loosing MU to GM.

Kano knives in cyber blow up clone and exknives go through and hit sub zero and kano can armor through the clone in corner pretty easy. I think its either 5-5 or 6-4 in kano favor but that's just my opinion
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I dont know man. I havent lost a set to a Kano player. I mean if mb ice ball destroys knives. Even if you ex my ex destroys it. Yeah he can armor though clone but armor shred. i feel like its 7-3 Sub
 
RVB

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
ARITE i'm working on uploading the vids from EU WEEKLY if anyone has more stuff that I need to add to the OP lemme know.
 
HuttonMD

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
STB BroZki said:
I dont know man. I havent lost a set to a Kano player. I mean if mb ice ball destroys knives. Even if you ex my ex destroys it. Yeah he can armor though clone but armor shred. i feel like its 7-3 Sub
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Really? I've never had a problem with sub only your sub really and that because your a better player lol. I just feel that cyber knives just destroy clone as soon as its set up. The corner is a little trickier but you can punish unsafe clone set ups easy and exupball can at least get you full screen again and you have to work your way back in and ex iceball can be baited but so can knives. I just Dont think its 7-3 sub
 
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