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Breakthrough - Kano FINALLY, The Kano Community Speaks Up. Save Kano's Relevance With Needed Fixes And Reasonable Buffs

ando1184

Warrior
Did you not think to maybe ask everyone on their thoughts first and maybe bugs they were aware of that needs fixed before making this thread? Lol. I mean for example in Cybernetic F4~DB1 completely whiffs on hit if it's done from max range or even if it's done up close I've had DB1 whiff on crouch blocking opponents. Also Cybernetics variation~specific launching strings (B132+4MB/B232+4MB) getting a damage buff is pretty much all he needs in that variation in my opinion.
@Kano community, do we all agree on this? If so @SaltShaker add it to the OP.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Lol at all the hypocritical Kano mains that just days ago said "level up braaaAaaaaaaaah he's top miiid maybe top" smh
Quote me this abundance of players that actually said that besides maybe Coach Steve who, you know, actually goes out and places.
 

Plop

Kombatant
I may be wrong, but doesn't every other grappler in the game have an overhead?
...
..
.

I feel like commando is where its at due to the damage on counter, if that's the case, lower the damage and give me them ticks and an OH... its not like counter can be thrown out for free, if it misses we'll get blow up easily

add standing reset as a hidden buff
Doesnt every zoner have an overhead too?...






(and a vortex)
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
-EX Knives close range in Commando and Cutthroat leave you close range. With the non existent hitbox of Cutthroat B1 and style of Commando, spending a bar for the frame advantage on block shouldn't leave you out of the striking range you are trying to achieve. It would be like Lao spending a bar on hat plus frames just to be out of range to hit you. He even steps forward when he does the move. It should leave him forward so he can apply pressure the same way the other characters in the game do in these two variations.
-Commando's Command Grabs. This has to be the most disrespectful of all glitches. How can a variation designed around grappling have it's grabs whiff and trade? How can Erron Black Command grab you out of damn near anything while Kano whiffs and trades? To add insult to injury, sometimes your excellent read is rewarded by a loss of one bar and whiffed grab. The worst of all bugs.
The knives i think leave u at a fine distance. Ive never had a problem with my b1 hitting afterwards. The frames are good enough where i get a free command grab as kano. And if a command grab will whiff or just trade his choke will do the right job. I think kano is fine as is imo
 

VoyagersRevenge

AUGMENTED
I support the Kano community in putting themselves out there and asking for changes/buffs.

As a Kitana main who felt like the 23rd of June was Christmas, I hope you guys get whatever you feel he needs.

Plus Kano is hot and I love SaltShaker.
Yes! We're just helping NRS balance out the game basically by pointing out problems that don't seem to be intentional and I encourage every other member of this community to respect that. Aside from the ignorant comments and any buffs NRS may feel he deserves, it's obvious that our character has some flaws that should be fixed. I don't care who dislikes this scumbag, he's still the augmented cybernetic madman we all love deep down inside. Just imagine how his son's going to turn out... Bad ass
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Not really going to condone this. I've always said Kano is fine, and by "fine" I meant that in at least two variations all of his tools worked and made up a solid character who's probably just not as strong as others. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; someone has to be in the lower end of the cast, and Kano just kind of is.

A big problem I have is that there hasn't been a lot of growth in the kano side of things for awhile because of all the tearing. I just saw in the cutthroat discussion that, just now, armored power up was being discussed. That's week 1 stuff, and I feel they could've already moved on to applications if the cyber mains weren't busy bitching about how bad he was. It's embarrassing.

I'm all for goofball things like 112 completely whiffing and the two hits of upball not hitting, but the other ones I'm not even sure why they are being suggested. The more frames on EN knife, for example; what does that serve? It neither buffs his offensive game nor strengthens his defensive game, so what the hell is the point? Why not boost his offense by making knives 8%? Why not improve his defense by making EN laser blast a mid? Commando is worse still, since Kano has a bunch of tick options and because they aren't EB good he needs more. Silly. He just got a safe special to cancel into, which is huge, but no one's exploring it, they just want more buffs. The EN knives idea is dumb too; lazy buffs to an offense that is already okay.

I feel like Cutthroat is already a solid competitor that can do insane damage to end a round, yet everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it because they're too busy chucking knives and getting pissy when that's not the end all. Play around, go to big tournaments, win or lose, but just don't bs out a list and blame all your problems out on Kano. We're all bad, we need to get better and you guys can do better.

Tl;dr: Get up off your damn knees and start using the character less one dimensionally. Play with all the variations and stop suggesting whack buffs that aren't going to solve anything.
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
There's nothing inherently wrong with that; someone has to be in the lower end of the cast, and Kano just kind of is.
There is absolutely something wrong with a character being at the lower tier of the cast. It means that they are not suitable for high level play, thus created an imbalanced roster. Being okay with Low tier and bad characters means you're okay with super broken characters, because you don't give a damn about balance. NRS, and every other developer should strive for the most balanced roster they can. Did you say the same thing about any other lower tier characters?
 

VoyagersRevenge

AUGMENTED
Not really going to condone this. I've always said Kano is fine, and by "fine" I meant that in at least two variations all of his tools worked and made up a solid character who's probably just not as strong as others. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; someone has to be in the lower end of the cast, and Kano just kind of is.

A big problem I have is that there hasn't been a lot of growth in the kano side of things for awhile because of all the tearing. I just saw in the cutthroat discussion that, just now, armored power up was being discussed. That's week 1 stuff, and I feel they could've already moved on to applications if the cyber mains weren't busy bitching about how bad he was. It's embarrassing.

I'm all for goofball things like 112 completely whiffing and the two hits of upball not hitting, but the other ones I'm not even sure why they are being suggested. The more frames on EN knife, for example; what does that serve? It neither buffs his offensive game nor strengthens his defensive game, so what the hell is the point? Why not boost his offense by making knives 8%? Why not improve his defense by making EN laser blast a mid? Commando is worse still, since Kano has a bunch of tick options and because they aren't EB good he needs more. Silly. He just got a safe special to cancel into, which is huge, but no one's exploring it, they just want more buffs. The EN knives idea is dumb too; lazy buffs to an offense that is already okay.

I feel like Cutthroat is already a solid competitor that can do insane damage to end a round, yet everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it because they're too busy chucking knives and getting pissy when that's not the end all. Play around, go to big tournaments, win or lose, but just don't bs out a list and blame all your problems out on Kano. We're all bad, we need to get better and you guys can do better.

Tl;dr: Get up off your damn knees and start using the character less one dimensionally. Play with all the variations and stop suggesting whack buffs that aren't going to solve anything.
The "safe special" up ball is only safe when it wants to be. It ignores the -5 frame block advantage and push back randomly. I've explored it, when it does work like it's suppose to it gives that right amount of spacing for our sick neutral game and almost forces respect. When it works, it feels godlike. Thanks to NRS! Ex knives for cybernetic can stay the same in my opinion. I only use them during pressure to open up with mix ups when my opponent has given up meter and it destroys probably any armor wake up.
 

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
There's only two buffs as a Day 1 Cutthroat Main that I recommend: Increase the hitbox on D1 (preferably jab range) and Kano's Upball needs to actually function what it's true purpose is... An anti-air. It needs to have priority it hitting enemies who try to jump over you and whatnot.
 

VoyagersRevenge

AUGMENTED
There's only two buffs as a Day 1 Cutthroat Main that I recommend: Increase the hitbox on D1 (preferably jab range) and Kano's Upball needs to actually function what it's true purpose is... An anti-air. It needs to have priority it hitting enemies who try to jump over you and whatnot.
Don't know how many times I have to abandon up ball and either backdash or run under to then follow up with my action. It's sad.
 

LOCO

DADDY BARAKA
Not really going to condone this. I've always said Kano is fine, and by "fine" I meant that in at least two variations all of his tools worked and made up a solid character who's probably just not as strong as others. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; someone has to be in the lower end of the cast, and Kano just kind of is.

A big problem I have is that there hasn't been a lot of growth in the kano side of things for awhile because of all the tearing. I just saw in the cutthroat discussion that, just now, armored power up was being discussed. That's week 1 stuff, and I feel they could've already moved on to applications if the cyber mains weren't busy bitching about how bad he was. It's embarrassing.

I'm all for goofball things like 112 completely whiffing and the two hits of upball not hitting, but the other ones I'm not even sure why they are being suggested. The more frames on EN knife, for example; what does that serve? It neither buffs his offensive game nor strengthens his defensive game, so what the hell is the point? Why not boost his offense by making knives 8%? Why not improve his defense by making EN laser blast a mid? Commando is worse still, since Kano has a bunch of tick options and because they aren't EB good he needs more. Silly. He just got a safe special to cancel into, which is huge, but no one's exploring it, they just want more buffs. The EN knives idea is dumb too; lazy buffs to an offense that is already okay.

I feel like Cutthroat is already a solid competitor that can do insane damage to end a round, yet everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it because they're too busy chucking knives and getting pissy when that's not the end all. Play around, go to big tournaments, win or lose, but just don't bs out a list and blame all your problems out on Kano. We're all bad, we need to get better and you guys can do better.

Tl;dr: Get up off your damn knees and start using the character less one dimensionally. Play with all the variations and stop suggesting whack buffs that aren't going to solve anything.

I don't care if Kano is bottom or not, I've actually always enjoyed using lower tier characters

BUT

that doesn't change his tick options have to be fully committed too which really seems "silly" compared to the other shit other characters got
and the lack of an OH is ridiculous, command grabs aren't an excuse to not have OHs, if so explain the rest of the grapplers

is it so absurd to think he should already of had these in his arsenal?
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
And another thing, why is it "fine" for this character to be at the lower end, but it was a damn travesty for Kitana or Kenshi again? How about Jaqui? Takeda? Can I get reasons as to why it's so damn horrible for those low end characters, that they needed to get buffs(for the most part), but god damn when this group feels their character needs some help, he's "fine" where he is?
 

Error

DF2+R2
And another thing, why is it "fine" for this character to be at the lower end, but it was a damn travesty for Kitana or Kenshi again? How about Jaqui? Takeda? Can I get reasons as to why it's so damn horrible for those low end characters, that they needed to get buffs(for the most part), but god damn when this group feels their character needs some help, he's "fine" where he is?
Came here to say this, it's not like we're asking for a new patch just for Kano here, there's going to be like 3 more patches and other characters will be getting changes, but "oh not Kano, he's fine he's meant to be low tier, level up :^)"

Gtfo
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
D3 on hit doesn't give enough advantage to actually jail into CT b1/b3, I think d1 gave more advantage but I never use it since it's 1 frame slower than d3/d4. I primarily counterpoke with d4... but anyway I do think that CT b1 should have enough range to connect after a d1/d3 on hit at all times, but no more than that. In my opinion being able to connect b1 without running from a bladeslice or f4 on hit would be overpowered. I also agree with all the suggested fixes to Commando.

A hitbox buff on all ball attacks is absolutely mandatory for the survival of the character. Even if all ball attacks were completely invincible to all normals during their animation they still wouldn't be overpowered. As Kano players, we can space out, punish for less damage than everyone else and AA(?) all we want, but one mistake and our life lead goes down the shitter in seconds due to how strong other characters offensive options are.

I do think that if you choose to leave your feet against Kano, you deserve to eat a ball attack EVERY SINGLE TIME. How are we supposed to play a footsie character if we have to respect Cum Jim's jumping 2's with a million active frames, random NJP's, divekicks and Tanya teleports and just let people go full retard with bunny hopping? Commando/Cyber b1 is nice for AA'ing, but it still loses to a ton of jumping attacks, making uppercut the most reliable AA. Cyber AA laser is useless. Meanwhile we have Kung Lao that can just spin every jump-in into a full combo every time, but we may or may not get our 10% upball to connect? It's ridiculous. Eating a knife while in the air also doesn't mean shit, we still have Scorpion who can spear empty jumps into full combos and guaranteed pressure every time, a character who himself can bunny hop with little consequences given his jumping 3 and tele shenanigans. Kano has a shitty jump and shitty jumping attacks, clearly the character is not designed to leave his feet regularly, air ball is crap compared to divekicks and teleports, so what do we do? We stay on the ground, chuck knives and out-footsie the opponent, but if we can't reliably AA for shit damage when our opponent decides to not give a fuck and just jump at us then what is the point of playing Kano? Knives, d4's and f4's won't get you to top 8 in a major.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
i like how we start off with this big dramatic opening and in the end its just asking for glitch fixes and like 3 tiny buffs. Kano community is still the kano community

for commando id love to get his air throw back and for f4 to be tick throwable.
Well that's the point. The strong majority of us aren't saying he needs an army of buffs like Kenshi and Kitana got, we're saying he needs his bugs fixed to play at full capacity and a few minor buffs to be relevant in the current iteration of MKX. Seems like very rational suggestions imo but you're more than welcome to let me know how they are unwarranted.

And now every character has a buff thread.
The characters that need them have them, as they should.

Cybernetic F4~DB1 completely whiffs on hit if it's done from max range or even if it's done up close I've had DB1 whiff on crouch blocking opponents.
@Kano community, do we all agree on this? If so @SaltShaker add it to the OP.
Happens to me all the time. Happened when I played you Ando lol. Will add to the OP.

The only reason people think Kano is good is because people think Kano is good.
People who play (played since everyone is dropping him) Kano no longer think he's good outside of a few select people. That's week 1 carrying over.

I support the Kano community in putting themselves out there and asking for changes/buffs.

As a Kitana main who felt like the 23rd of June was Christmas, I hope you guys get whatever you feel he needs.

Plus Kano is hot and I love SaltShaker.
:u:rolleyes: :cool:

You of all people know what it's like when people tell you how "fine" your character is when they aren't. We are only asking for a few minor things as a community, things that wouldn't even make him top tier, yet it's guaranteed some people will come in making snarky comments as if we asked for a 5 frame OH, 30% command grabs, and a laser guided teleport. -.-

Kano is fine, and by "fine" I meant that in at least two variations all of his tools worked and made up a solid character who's probably just not as strong as others. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; someone has to be in the lower end of the cast, and Kano just kind of is.

I'm all for goofball things like 112 completely whiffing and the two hits of upball not hitting, but the other ones I'm not even sure why they are being suggested. The more frames on EN knife, for example; what does that serve? It neither buffs his offensive game nor strengthens his defensive game, so what the hell is the point? Why not boost his offense by making knives 8%?

I feel like Cutthroat is already a solid competitor that can do insane damage to end a round, yet everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it because they're too busy chucking knives and getting pissy when that's not the end all. Play around, go to big tournaments, win or lose, but just don't bs out a list and blame all your problems out on Kano. We're all bad, we need to get better and you guys can do better.
First thing first. If I remember correct, you are one of like 3 Kano main's left who thinks he's fine right? Oh wait that's right, you literally just said in the thread that you "won't be playing Kano anymore going forward". Strong words from someone who dropped the character like 85% of the community has by now.

Now that that's out the way, on to the content of your post. I question if you actually read the thread with an open mind or looked at what to criticize. Nowhere did I suggest buffs for Cutthroat at all other than B1 hitbox issues which is a bug. It's a bug when I have someone cornered and can whiff a B1 or land a point blank D1 or D3 and whiff B1. If it needs a millimeter extra of reach or a hitbox adjustment, it needs something. Even the haters agree this needs to big fixed and it is the only Cutt suggestion I made, with only like 3-4 buff request in the entire OP, so I have no idea where "everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it" comes from.

Also, you said what purpose does extra +frames on EX Knives in Cyber serve? Really? You play, I mean played the character so I'm sure you've been escaped and armored when doing EX Knives on block up close. Adding a few more +frames will make it a legit frame trap so you can mix in grabs. Like Lao's hat, Cage's fireball, insert 5 other characters, etc. Kano is like the only one who spends a bar of meter for pressure while the opponent still has options to escape. He doesn't even have an OH I'm Cyber so the grab/string mixup will be for real, as it is for other characters. If you think "8% knives" would be better I don't know what to say.

Lastly, your definition of fine, go play, and don't blame Kano is beyond me. I'm glad you explained what you meant, but I can never agree. We should aim to bring the weak characters up, not leave them down because they're fine not being good. What? An example, when Tyrant made the thread in Injustice saying Grundy was ass, and 80% of TYM attack HIM, Tyrant of all people, saying he was a washed up FG player and couldn't "adapt", maybe he was doing something wrong and not playing the character right, etc. The thread is still there, they killed him, but he's worshipped again now. Was he wrong? Grundy was "fine" supposedly, received like 1 buff through all patches combined, and ended up being a lower mid tier counter pick for one match option at best. If Tyrant didn't get respect for saying the truth I don't expect much, but it still needs to be said.