"Final" UMK3 Tier List before UMK3:TE?

[ded]

Every character gets GJ's though, not just the ones with "great jabs" get moved up, and people with average or weak jabs stay the same or go down, it doesn't work like that... Your not going to beat any top player only using jabs, regardless of what character they are...... They have been known for a very long time. If you want to make a jab tier list go ahead but this is a real tier list.

Well said, man. That's what i meant basically, i guess it's a language barrier for me @Shock

 

[Juggs]

Every character gets GJ's though, not just the ones with "great jabs" get moved up (Jade would get better too SHE HAS THE SAME JABS, ONCE AGAIN YOUR NOT SAYING HOW SHE IS NOW BETTER THAN JADE, this is based off of Hanzo Clearly)

At this point it feels like you're trolling, or severely lack reading comprehension skills. I said verbatim "Based on Mileena's jabs alone, it isn't possible she's the worst character in the game". At no point did I ever say "Mileena is better than Jade because of her jabs", that again, makes ZERO sense. Stahp trolling me.

and people with average or weak jabs stay the same or go down, it doesn't work like that.

It's not about the jabs themselves, but how they affect certain characters. The best example is Kung Lao. Because of glitch jabs against Kung Lao, he goes down on the tier list. Because of how well Kitana does against glitch jabs, she goes up on the tier list. It is not a difficult concept.

Your not going to beat any top player only using jabs, regardless of what character they are..

If the top player isn't using them or doesn't know how to beat them, of course you are going to beat them.

And the statement that based on her jabs alone she isn't the worst in the game alone, is just your opinion, and that's fine, but it is completely invalid and not how a tier list works (which the record must show). And the point is that even though Mileena has great Jabs, that doesn't bump her up to 13 alone and past Jade.

Again, her having good jabs is irrelevant in regards to why she's better than Jade, you're going to HAVE to stop bringing it up. And tier lists are 100% opinion bro, what in the actual fuckery are you talking about?

The fact is you can post your opinion, but when debating it you clearly needed Hanzo to do it for you because you had no valid points on why she is all of a sudden higher, and higher than Jade who has the same jabs and is simply a better character in this game. All you did was take my points about Jade, and say them about Mileena lol. It doesn't change things as drastically as your implying. They have been known for a very long time. If you want to make a jab tier list go ahead but this is a real tier list. Its the iAF that really moves Kitana up so drastically, not the GJ's.

In most tier lists, that are at all credible, it takes multiple people to comprise them. Not a single person can ever be the best with every character or know every match-up. I consulted others before posting my tier list, and used other tier lists as bases for my own. I have no problem admitting that @MKK hanzo can better explain Mileena's tier placement than I can, so that indeed was a "glitch jab".

And agaaaain, I didn't say Mileena in any way is "drastically" better or that her moves effect MU's "drastically" in comparison to Jade. Numerous times I've said it's close, but I feel Mileena has the edge, so does one of the best Mileena players, so do many others including @R.E.O.

 

[dubson]

*a Top player wouldn't be a Top player, if he could not figure out how to beat or play against GJ's, or use them himself.

Sorry, but you will never beat a "Top" player only using jabs ever, regardless of character, so seriously you can just stop man. This also is only one piece of the pie, and not how a real tier list is made.

Basically, you have no understanding or experience on how a real tier list is made or what it even stands for.

Your very wrong in many of your above statements, and the statement that Mileena is not the worst character in the game based on her jabs alone is completely Invalid and Wrong.

 

[tehdrewsus]

I mean, OK? BRB QUICK Lemme record a Match with Marv so I can make absurd claims. You think your the only one who has played Marv or something?

 

[Juggs]

*a Top player wouldn't be a Top player, if he could not figure out how to beat or play against GJ's, or use them himself.

Sorry, but you will never beat a "Top" player only using jabs ever, regardless of character, so seriously you can just stop man. This also is only one piece of the pie, and not how a real tier list is made.

Basically, you have no understanding or experience on how a real tier list is made or what it even stands for.

Your very wrong in many of your above statements, and the statement that Mileena is not the worst character in the game based on her jabs alone is completely Invalid and Wrong.

I guess that's why most people agree with my list (including a lot of top players), and the 2 best Mileena's in the world agree with me (REO and Hanzo). I guess we all don't know what we're talking about, and don't know how to even spell "teer lisp".

 

[dubson]

Well, it seems more like Hanzo and REO's list than yours, I guess thats all I was getting at.

And I wouldn't say most. They liked your list but hitting the like button on it and agreeing that yours is right are 2 separate concepts. So your speaking and assuming for others there, again.

 

[REO]

Kitana is top five. Mileena is top ten (right at #10). Jade is top 15.

 

[Juggs]

Kitana is top five. Mileena is top ten (right at #10). Jade is top 15.

Oh look, another top Mileena player again ranks Mileena higher than I did. The madness!

 

[ded]

@Juggs i know you value my opinion:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/how-glitch-jabs-affect-umk3.2113/page-4#post-41587

so be it, here is *some* stuff for lao:

just something to at least think about it: i've been bringing this since 2-3 years already, yet i have not seen anyone doing this: otg JPs/JKs is devastating strat. as you said, you value @MKK hanzo's opinion, he is one of the few pro players outside of europe, whom i showed example of this strats, and he agrees it should be exposed more. if you sweep for example, nightwolf with kabal and try to karajab him, he can otg and autocombo instantly. just an example. now, when it comes to lao, his otg jps/jks are insane. + if you get risky with the jump you can always bring the div kick to change the direction. not very useful against kabal or air throwers of course, but kitana is very helpless against this. the possibilities of this are unlimited, from interrupting karajab pressure with c.LK and then otg JPs auto combo, to unescapable (i have this recorded) throws and just random early otg JPs mixed with the div kick to confuse the opponent. again, this is not very useful against characters who can punish crossovers like kabal.

as for the div kick. if kitana does not have frame advantage, which can be easy noticed in a karajab conflict between the two players, the only punisher she can do against accidentally blocked low div kick...is HK, even the uppercut will require perfect timing to hit, i know @Shock knows what i mean, some of you may heard of the so called button loss.

kung lao also has throw traps, amazing long range sweep, knee jabs/mixups, and really low c.LK.

dont forget that the spin can punish blocked jump kicks, interrupt sweeps and sometimes even delayed autocombos.

you CANNOT corner trap lao, as all he has to do is buffer Down, Up to escape.

The teleport is a unique mind trap move, which can be used in so many ways as well. there is a difference if you press the kick/punch earlier if you just teleport and etc. of course that all is punishable, but thats why mind games are for.

you also said something, that i need to bring again: it's not the inf, what makes lao that good, it's the fear to not catch you with that inf that force you to play differently against him.

It is just funny to post "i can beat everyone" in a tier list thread, m8...

 

[dubson]

Oh look, another top Mileena player again ranks Mileena higher than I did. The madness!

That's fine, lol. It's one man's opinion, and I disagree with all of it. At least he can explain himself…. maybe he will? He has also had ample opportunity to chime in for ample time now to elaborate on why he feels Mileena is better than Jade. I sure would like to fight his Jade, if noone else, which would give me a personal, better understanding of his validity.

 

[Juggs]

you also said something, that i need to bring again: it's not the inf, what makes lao that good, it's the fear to not catch you with that inf that force you to play differently against him..

Uh, wut? I've always ALWAYS said Lao's infinite isn't what makes him good, and what I've had to defend from these guys. I also said verbatim that it was the threat of the infinite more than the infinite itself on why it is good.

Dunno if you are just remembering it wrong or what.

 

[ded]

No, i was just quoting you that this is very important part of Lao's game and you know it, so we agree at least for something about him.

 

[dubson]

@ded @Juggs Infinite itself or threat of the infinite. There really is no difference in the grand scheme of things. It all factors in. Without the infinite, there would be no fear, so just stop with that.

 

[Juggs]

No, i was just quoting you that this is very important part of Lao's game and you know it, so we agree at least for something about him.

Oh gotcha, I thought you were trying to say I said Lao's infinite is what makes him good, my bad.

@dubson whatever dude, lmfao. I've explained multiple times now why I place Mileena where I did, and why she's better than Jade, it's not my fault you cannot comprehend what I'm saying or that you disagree with it. I'm done talking to you forever, you're impossible to reason with, it's giving me actual aids at this point. I'll just let my play do the talking, which is what I should have done to begin with.

 

[dubson]

You didn't explain shit. All you did was make a bold statement for 2 other people, no personal experience playing with the character only against, incorrect views on how tier lists are formed and what they stand for, took my points about Jade and said them about Mileena, and turned a comparison from Mileena and Jade to Mileena and Kung Lao. LOL.

When a character jumps from basically dead last to #10 expect some questioning.

 

[ded]

It is sad, that few of the good players who still keeps this game alive rage in an internet site. Thats the reason some of the OG dont play the game anymore, i suppose it's just how high level umk3 scene works...

What can i do is record some matches with Lao vs @HrZ and upload them somewhere, probably somewhere in the next week. Everyone is free to discuss, troll or whatever. It just probably wont be uploaded on youtube, as there are too many haters out there.

 

[dubson]

Its not that big of a deal to me. Someone is letting it get to them too much. Im just saying, when a character magically jumps from dead last to #10 you better have some strong, clear reasons why. Thats all.

 

[ded]

@ded @Juggs Infinite itself or threat of the infinite. There really is no difference in the grand scheme of things. It all factors in. Without the infinite, there would be no fear, so just stop with that.

just saw that haha good stuff, man. i will tho lol

 

[Konqrr]

@Juggsotg JPs/JKs is devastating strat. as you said, you value @MKK hanzo's opinion, he is one of the few pro players outside of europe, whom i showed example of this strats, and he agrees it should be exposed more. if you sweep for example, nightwolf with kabal and try to karajab him, he can otg and autocombo instantly. just an example. now, when it comes to lao, his otg jps/jks are insane. + if you get risky with the jump you can always bring the div kick to change the direction. not very useful against kabal or air throwers of course, but kitana is very helpless against this. the possibilities of this are unlimited, from interrupting karajab pressure with c.LK and then otg JPs auto combo, to unescapable (i have this recorded) throws and just random early otg JPs mixed with the div kick to confuse the opponent. again, this is not very useful against characters who can punish crossovers like kabal.

I read that three times and I still don't understand what you are saying. what is an otg jp/jk?

Like this:

if you sweep for example, nightwolf with kabal and try to karajab him, he can otg and autocombo instantly.

I can't even picture what you are saying is happening. The way I picture from reading that is "if kabal sweeps nightwolf and tries to karajab him, he can otg and autocombo instantly." It does not compute! lol ... where is the jp/jk otg there? What am I missing?

Could you please elaborate? I want to know what this stuff is.

 

[ded]

haha sorry man, here ya go:

1. Kabal sweeps Nightwolf
2. Kabal runs into Nightwolf after the sweep so he can karajab pressure him.
3. Nightwolf instantly jumps away or forward with early Jump Punch linked to auto combo, interrupting the recovery from the sweep animation/frames.

That was just an example of the possibilities with the otg. With Lao it's even more fun.

 

[Mgo]

@Konqrr

3:43

46:25

 

[Konqrr]

@ded @Mgo Ah, I see... I was confused by the usage of otg as that usually refers to the attacker doing it after an attack or combo to hit the opponent before they can get up.

 

[Juggs]

Hey @dubson, the legendary MrIGotBass wants to play you on PSN for me. And any other PSN player in this thread or otherwise. Will you play him ft10 or ft whatever and then post the results honestly? He's banned from here so he can't issue the challenge himself, so I'm helping a brotha out.

Bass's PSN is: DOCTOR_CC

 

[dubson]

Hey @dubson, the legendary MrIGotBass wants to play you on PSN for me. And any other PSN player in this thread or otherwise. Will you play him ft10 or ft whatever and then post the results honestly? He's banned from here so he can't issue the challenge himself, so I'm helping a brotha out.

Bass's PSN is: DOCTOR_CC

He can play me, sure. But for himself, not you. What is all that?

I've played him a million times. Dude loves to creep. He is a great player. IDK who will win, it will depend. IDK what he has told you but I have many stories about that guy.

What is the challenge? FT10 random, straight up, what?

Will you play him and post your results as well?

Why is he banned from here?

Since you wanted to show this publicly and not by PM, let the record show, he is a better player than you.

 

[DWednesday]

I've played him a million times. Dude loves to creep. He is a great player.

Saying he's a great player is like saying Mileena is top tier.