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Discussion Final MKXL Tier List (post yours!)

B

Basic Stupidity

Noob
Kooron Nation said:
@Basic Stupidity Cutthroat Kano is not better than Commando or Cybernetic, they're all even, or if not the other two are better than Cutthroat.
His B1 mid in those two variations is a massive tool that Kano relies on, which he loses access to in CT.
It's easily one of the best anti-airs in the game and can be cancelled for a tick-throw in Commando.
Also Piercing is not better than Ravenous, they are equal.
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Cutthroats overhead is still mostly safe cuz it's a difficult punish and he still gets great damage. I think he might be even with commando but I don't feel cybernetic is as good. Piercings zoning/ counter zoning is still very good and her b1 is still a great tool hard to say she's not better.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I'm thinking about moving Ronin Takeda and Shotgun Jacqui up to A+, not sure though A seems safer. I'm also considering adding an A- tier because there are a few outliers in B+ and A that I don't feel comfortable with.
 
JGillette

JGillette

My thirst for knowledge cannot be quenched
Dankster Morgan said:
I'm thinking about moving Ronin Takeda and Shotgun Jacqui up to A+, not sure though A seems safer. I'm also considering adding an A- tier because there are a few outliers in B+ and A that I don't feel comfortable with.
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I hope Dragon Naginata isnt one of them :p
 
DoDaMuSiC

DoDaMuSiC

Ermac ftw
Mystic and Spectral are equally good, both S tier
IMO Ermac loses to Crystalline, Hellfire and Ethereal.. maybe Smoke and Ravenous, but I would say its a 5-5
 
Roy Arkon

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I would say that Reptile is in A+ with both Noxious and Nimble, while Deceptive is on a borderline between A+ and A. Reptile is a very versatile character across all of his very Variations, but Noxious gives Reptile a bigger room to use his universal tools without sacrificing anything for the Poison Gas while he can still get a great use from the Poison Gas, and Nimble might require a lot more execution and meter, but the payoff is so much worth it in terms of what it gives you in return. Deceptive is still good, but the payoff is not that much worth it like with Noxious and Nimble, and you can't really use Deceptive invisibility without sacrificing meter that you could've use for Reptile universal tools, and that Variation might be simpler then Nimble, but not as simple as Noxious.

That's my take on it.
 
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callMEcrazy

callMEcrazy

Alone is where to find me.
2 seasons of kombat cup has made it clear to me that Ermac is a very over-hyped character. The way I see it, match-ups and tiers only apply at the highest level of play where the game is extremely tight and very few frames are left on the table. In that setting Ermac doesn't seem nearly as good as it seems in this forum.

In years gone by most good players just had one character that they played at any given period. These days that's no longer the case. Most good players seem to have 2-3 characters/variations that they are comfortable playing at a tournament. This makes it even more obvious to me that Ermac is average.

Fox has like 5-6 variations ready to go at any time.
Dragon has 5
Semij has 2
Rewind has like 4
Illusions has 2
Tweedy has...just 1 I think
Yungmonster has 2-3
Revetleafing has 3
Destroyer has 2
Scar has 2
Deoxys has like 4

Not one of those variations is Ermac.

Mystic and Spectral are S tier ? Give me a break !
 
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Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
callMEcrazy said:
2 seasons of kombat cup has made it clear to me that Ermac is a very over-hyped character. The way I see it, match-ups and tiers only apply at the highest level of play where the game is extremely tight and very few frames are left on the table. In that setting Ermac doesn't seem nearly as good as it seems in this forum.

In years gone by most good players just had one character that they played at any given period. These days that's no longer the case. Most good players seem to have 2-3 characters/variations that they are comfortable playing at a tournament. This makes it even more obvious to me that Ermac is average.

Fox has like 5-6 variations ready to go at any time.
Dragon has 5
Semij has 2
Rewind has like 4
Illusions has 2
Tweedy has...just 1 I think
Yungmonster has 2-3
Revetleafing has 3
Destroyer has 2
Scar has 2
Deoxys has like 4

Not one of those variations is Ermac.

Mystic and Spectral are S tier ? Give me a break !
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So you think Ermac isn't S tier because no people that you've seen play him? Lol what??? Tier isn't decided by how played he is, it's decided by matchups.
 
callMEcrazy

callMEcrazy

Alone is where to find me.
Youphemism said:
So you think Ermac isn't S tier because no people that you've seen play him? Lol what??? Tier isn't decided by how played he is, it's decided by matchups.
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LOL what?? Ermac is S tier and not one top player is gonna use him to try and win all the cash that's on the line in tournaments?

It's common sense. If a character/variation is that good and has so many good match-ups that it is S tier, it WILL be abused by professionals to win tournaments. Heck people even abused Alien, which is not even an original MK character and has very little loyal following in this community. Ermac has tons of fans. Yet he is never played at the sharp end. That is a clear indication to me that he is nowhere near S tier.

You wanna talk match-ups ? Spectral probably belongs in the bottom half of the list so lets talk about Mystic. Mystic has better match-ups than Sorcerer Quan ? Better than Kenshi Possessed ? Better than Ravenous Mileena ??? All those are listed as A+ (which is probably ok). It's Ermac that's listed way too high.
 
Roy Arkon

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
callMEcrazy said:
LOL what?? Ermac is S tier and not one top player is gonna use him to try and win all the cash that's on the line in tournaments?

It's common sense. If a character/variation is that good and has so many good match-ups that it is S tier, it WILL be abused by professionals to win tournaments. Heck people even abused Alien, which is not even an original MK character and has very little loyal following in this community. Ermac has tons of fans. Yet he is never played at the sharp end. That is a clear indication to me that he is nowhere near S tier.

You wanna talk match-ups ? Spectral probably belongs in the bottom half of the list so lets talk about Mystic. Mystic has better match-ups than Sorcerer Quan ? Better than Kenshi Possessed ? Better than Ravenous Mileena ??? All those are listed as A+ (which is probably ok). It's Ermac that's listed way too high.
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Big D and Beyond Toxin use Ermac, and Big D made it to top 8 at EVO last year.

And yes, it does make sense that people will use strong characters, but not everyone is gonna use that character just because it is strong. Like @xKhaoTik just said, only HoneyBee used D'Vorah in all of the majors in the US (I know another player who uses her, his name is Hidra, and he's extremely good) despite the fact that she was an S tier at one time. A character can be strong and still not have that many players to use it.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
callMEcrazy said:
LOL what?? Ermac is S tier and not one top player is gonna use him to try and win all the cash that's on the line in tournaments?

It's common sense. If a character/variation is that good and has so many good match-ups that it is S tier, it WILL be abused by professionals to win tournaments. Heck people even abused Alien, which is not even an original MK character and has very little loyal following in this community. Ermac has tons of fans. Yet he is never played at the sharp end. That is a clear indication to me that he is nowhere near S tier.

You wanna talk match-ups ? Spectral probably belongs in the bottom half of the list so lets talk about Mystic. Mystic has better match-ups than Sorcerer Quan ? Better than Kenshi Possessed ? Better than Ravenous Mileena ??? All those are listed as A+ (which is probably ok). It's Ermac that's listed way too high.
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LOL at "it's common sense". You are trying to say that Ermac is not top tier because there are few people playing him in tournaments that you've seen, which is untrue and nowhere near anything resembling "common sense" lmao. I guess Possessed Kenshi is bad then by your logic since only Tweedy plays him? Impostor is bad because only Dragon is using him right now? Crystalline is bad? Bone Shaper is bad? Sonya is bad?

"Spectral probably belongs in the bottom half of the list" LMFAO dude stop, you're killing me here. I'd suggest you jump in the lab for a bit and work out why Spectral is considered good because if you honestly believe he's in the bottom half of the cast you're either playing vanilla MKX or don't know what you're talking about.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Ermac is fine where he's at, even MoS his worst variation is still pretty good. Ermac has:
-very consistent anti air
-unreactable launching 50/50(which is actually a really good and standout tool in this version of the game)
-fast pokes
-broke jump ins
-launching teleport

And that's just some of his variationless tools, Mystic gets one of the best armor moves in the game and a strong grip on the neutral, Spectral gets even better safe mixup options, and MoS wins every projectile trade in the game and has a vortex.
 
callMEcrazy

callMEcrazy

Alone is where to find me.
Youphemism said:
LOL at "it's common sense". You are trying to say that Ermac is not top tier because there are few people playing him in tournaments that you've seen, which is untrue and nowhere near anything resembling "common sense" lmao. I guess Possessed Kenshi is bad then by your logic since only Tweedy plays him? Impostor is bad because only Dragon is using him right now? Crystalline is bad? Bone Shaper is bad? Sonya is bad?

"Spectral probably belongs in the bottom half of the list" LMFAO dude stop, you're killing me here. I'd suggest you jump in the lab for a bit and work out why Spectral is considered good because if you honestly believe he's in the bottom half of the cast you're either playing vanilla MKX or don't know what you're talking about.
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Even if only Tweedy plays Possessed that's one more than Ermac. I've seen Rewind pull out Possessed as well. It just so happens Rewind also has an Imposter (which he used in the KC season 2 finale against Semij), besides Dragon.

Crystalline is played by Destroyer who regularly makes top 8. Sonya is played by Scar, Boneshaper by Dragon.
Anyway lets not argue about this anymore. I stand by my original point - the top 10-12 players of today combined have about 30 variations at their disposal. Not one of those is Ermac. Personally I would expect a variation that strong to pop up at least once. But it never does.

To me Mystic at least is a strong variation, but not S tier material.
 
callMEcrazy

callMEcrazy

Alone is where to find me.
Roy Arkon said:
Big D and Beyond Toxin use Ermac, and Big D made it to top 8 at EVO last year.

And yes, it does make sense that people will use strong characters, but not everyone is gonna use that character just because it is strong. Like @xKhaoTik just said, only HoneyBee used D'Vorah in all of the majors in the US (I know another player who uses her, his name is Hidra, and he's extremely good) despite the fact that she was an S tier at one time. A character can be strong and still not have that many players to use it.
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A patch came out after Evo 2016, so that example is dated in more ways than one.

I can see why D'Vorah may be underused despite being strong - she has an ugly character design and has never really garnered any fan following. You can't compare that to Ermac. Ermac could be popular enough to be top 5 fan favorite. (Edit: I just realized Ermac is in my profile pic :D)

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I just find it extremely hard to believe that Mystic and Spectral are S tier in the current patch and yet not one top level player uses either of them.
 
Nausea

Nausea

Soul Ascended
How many times do you fools gotta be told?

Tier lists consist of MU charts NOT who the fuck plays them and where they place. Spectral and Mystic don't have a lot of losing MU's hence the high tier. If I was a bit more confident in myself, I could have took Ermac to the top in EU. (Spectral and Mystic cover about 95% and the other 5% MoS can have.)

I've also went toe to toe with many a top player with Spectral and his tools make him hard to deal with when played correctly.

For anyone who is still giving it "oMg mOm sPeCtRal iSnt ToP tIeR cOs IvE nEvEr sEen hIm uSeD iN A tOuNeYmEnT"

Please, stop.

Have a lovely day, and roll on I2 :)
 
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