F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

[Marlow]

but my post was agreeing that it shouldn't be either or, we should work to promote individual responsibility while making it more possible for everyone to reach their potential.

I see. I totally agree with this 100%.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

The issue is that there's tons of evidence showing that people don't actually start with an equal playing field. And that a lot of success doesn't actually depend on how smart you are and how hard you work. There were systems setup in this country to abuse the hard work and innovation of others for someone else's great financial gain. So while it has the illusion of being a merit-based system, that hasn't actually been the history in this country. It's not how capitalism works.

So rather than being super extreme in our talking points "Either everybody needs to make exactly the same amount, or we shouldn't help anyone at all", it makes more sense to focus on helping people who need assistance getting around that roadblocks that are here.

If we're going to claim that this country is great and has a high quality of life, the bare minimum should be getting what you need to live and be healthy if you work an honest day's work. And beyond that, the opportunities to achieving the highest heights should be the same for everybody, regardless of what you look like, your gender, where you live etc. A few people breaking through the odds isn't justification for pretending these issues don't exist. Just like a few people escaping slavery and gaining freedom didn't mean that slavery was fine.

A society exists as a whole.. Not just as a bunch of separate individuals. We are all connected in some way. That's why we need to make sure there are basic standards for everybody. This shouldn't be hard to understand, and most of the modern first world, as well as the countries with the highest quality of living, are doing this ALREADY.

My response to Marlow pretty much applies here, I definitely don't disagree with any of this, I only meant to say that we shouldn't have to choose between emphasizing both the individual and society as a whole.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Many excellent points have been made.
I enjoy watching the "everything HAS to be labeled" argument die a slow and deserved death.

I'm just waiting for the part where it gets turned around into the eventual "see? You're all ganging up on me, which means I'm right, which means you're all leftist extremists whose opinions mean nothing" twist in the debate. That train is never late.

 

[trufenix]

If only there was like a core human rights issue we could get behind, and not be distracted by all the politics. )=

 

[M2Dave]

You don't think White Privilege exists?

White Privilege is a nonsensical term invented by far-left scholars whose objective is to shame people for their achievement. If you are white and successful, you have privilege. If you are a person of color and successful, you are acting white. This narrative is consistent with the preposterous infographic that you keep defending.

To continue the current discussion, people are obviously born into circumstances that are beyond their control. The key question is: Does the system proffer an equality of opportunity in order to experience upward social mobility? In America, the answer is evidently yes. There is no such thing as the Chinese, British, Norwegian, German, or Swedish Dream, but there is the American Dream, the belief that no matter who you are and where you come from, you can succeed. For this reason, America is the number one destination for immigration irrespective of the so-called systemic racism, sexism, and xenophobia that the far left claims exists.

Those aren't "labels" like left, right, liberal, or conservative. Those are specific traits of the Republican platform. I'm not even saying every citizen who is a Republican is actively for those things (I have a gay mentally disabled brother who lives with my Republican dad). But those are core aspects of the Republican political agenda. I'm not even sure if that's debatable. Why not tack on "anti religious freedom" while we're at it. Ooh, and "anti critical thinking", "anti sex education", and "pro birth" since Covid really shined a light on what a load of bs "pro-life" really was.

You are a partisan liberal no different from a partisan conservative who would claim that the Democratic Party is anti-American, anti-capitalism, anti-law and order, anti-military, etc. You, much like Crimson, adore labels as long as they serve to smear the people with whom you disagree politically.

 

[kabelfritz]

To put it in FGC terms, imagine that instead of being able to choose a character, you're just assigned a character at random, and that's who you play as for the life of the game. Now, clearly if you take personal responsibility and hit the practice mode to lab your character, work on your fundamentals, and do your best, you can probably still succeed. But when looking at your tournament success, shouldn't the tier level of the character still matter, and wouldn't it be better if over time the game was patched to provide more balance?

id like to stress that FG picture:

capitalism: sonic fox uses his prize money to pay NRS for making an S+++ character only he can use.

 

[Marlow]

White Privilege is a nonsensical term invented by far-left scholars whose objective is to shame people for their achievement.

Completely false. It has absolutely nothing to do with shaming people.

If you are white and successful, you have privilege.

White privilege isn't about success or being unsuccessful and it's not trying to guilt people or take away their accomplishments. It's about recognizing the inherent advantages that white people have in the US. If we can recognize these issues, then we can fix them and start to address systemic racism, and then we have a better system of equal opportunity.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a32752175/white-privilege-everyday-examples/

If you honestly don't realize the benefits of being white in America, I don't know what else to say.

 

[M2Dave]

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a32752175/white-privilege-everyday-examples/

Unsurprisingly, you link to a highly bizarre article that engages in stereotypes such as that every white person is an insecure maniac who is obsessed with race in all aspects of life, all white people are wealthy while all black people are destitute, and all black people feel oppressed and victimized every day, minute, and second of their lives.

White privilege is scientifically immeasurable because people are individuals. For example, I am white, yet my family and I lost everything, including family members, because of the Yugoslav Wars. I am sure that many black people in American were born into superior circumstances than I was while some others were not. White privilege paints every white person in America with a broad brush, which is why the term ought to be a joke to any sane human being.

 

[Marlow]

Unsurprisingly, you link to a highly bizarre article that engages in stereotypes such as that every white person is an insecure maniac who is obsessed with race in all aspects of life, all white people are wealthy while all black people are destitute, and all black people feel oppressed and victimized every day, minute, and second of their lives.

White privilege is scientifically immeasurable because people are individuals. For example, I am white, yet my family and I lost everything, including family members, because of the Yugoslav Wars. I am sure that many black people in American were born into superior circumstances than I was while some others were not. White privilege paints every white person in America with a broad brush, which is why the term ought to be a joke to any sane human being.

That's not at all what the article says, and again not at all what White Privilege is about. White Privilege does not mean that white people don't have to face hardship, or that white people are only successful because of their skin color, or that black people can never be successful. What it does do is examine how being white affects things like being able to live in a neighborhood where people predominantly look like you, being able to work in a work environment where people predominantly look like you, being able to operate in a society where the majority of people share your same social norms and customs, how the color of your skins affects your outcomes within societal institutions like school, housing, the justice system, and the economic system.

Obviously people are individuals, so these things may or may not apply exactly to all people, but no duh. That doesn't discredit that on the whole, based on the outcomes we're seeing in our society today, white privilege is very much is a thing, as is systemic racism.

 

[Marlow]

One way to describe White Privilege is this:

Would you notice if an NBA team started 5 Black players, or is it the kind of thing you wouldn't think about until it was brought to your attention? What if it was 5 white players? This sort of default assumption is almost like breathing manually or being aware of what our tongue feels like in our mouths: you can MAKE yourself aware of it, but usually it's just background noise. White privilege is the default setting of being normal: a flesh colored crayon is white. Bugs Bunny is white, and he's a cartoon rabbit. If I asked someone to picture a bank CEO, or a doctor, or a lawyer in their head, odds are for all of those they'd picture a white man, even if I never specified race or gender. If I'm making a TV show about super powered mutants that travel through time solving crime that includes the President of the United States, I'm probably casting a white man as the President because that's what is considered "normal". If I'm making a movie about space samurai who have magic powers and fight with laser swords the lead character is likely a white male, because if I was to have a female or a person of color I'd be called out by the fan base for trying to be too woke.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

White Privilege is a nonsensical term invented by far-left scholars whose objective is to shame people for their achievement. If you are white and successful, you have privilege.

It's hard to take your arguments seriously when you make boldfaced statements that, in actuality, are contrary to fact. This is one of them.

While it's convenient to try to rewrite the narrative and reframe it in the context of modern money-driven political debate, that's actually not what the term means or where it came from. It's hard to have a fact-based discussion when all of your arguments are based on Youtube videos and propaganda.

Just like night is the absence of light when the sun is opposite the earth, White Privilegde is the natural result of racism in a system that systematically subjugated and handicapped people due to being nonwhite. It's simply the other side of the same coin, and that's extremely easy to understand.

Furthermore, when the concept was first illustrated by W.E.B. DuBois, he was not describing 'successful' white people -- he was describing poorer whites who should have much in common with a marginalized African-American population, but were psychologically separated from cooperating with them by the realities of discrimination based on skin color.

And the term is intended not for 'guilt' but for awareness of social conditions. You can't make it what it is not.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

White privilege is scientifically immeasurable because people are individuals. For example, I am white, yet my family and I lost everything, including family members, because of the Yugoslav Wars. I am sure that many black people in American were born into superior circumstances than I was while some others were not. White privilege paints every white person in America with a broad brush, which is why the term ought to be a joke to any sane human being.

Dave, that's not what white privilege means. It doesn't mean nothing bad can ever happen to white people or that white people can't be born into terrible circumstances. It means that, at least here in America, if you are white then you have certain privileges over other people in your circumstances who are not white. That's it. It's not even meant to "shame" white people; it's just a fact of life that peope need to be aware of. You can disagree that those priveleges exist, sure, but your current definition of white privilege is incorrect.

To continue the current discussion, people are obviously born into circumstances that are beyond their control. The key question is: Does the system proffer an equality of opportunity in order to experience upward social mobility? In America, the answer is evidently yes. There is no such thing as the Chinese, British, Norwegian, German, or Swedish Dream, but there is the American Dream, the belief that no matter who you are and where you come from, you can succeed. For this reason, America is the number one destination for immigration irrespective of the so-called systemic racism, sexism, and xenophobia that the far left claims exists.

"The American Dream" is a phrase invented by author James Adams in his book, Epic of America. It's essentially just an ad slogan to boost immigration. Just because other countries don't have a romantic slogan doesn't mean you can't make it in those countries, especially now in 2020.

You are a partisan liberal no different from a partisan conservative who would claim that the Democratic Party is anti-American, anti-capitalism, anti-law and order, anti-military, etc. You, much like Crimson, adore labels as long as they serve to smear the people with whom you disagree politically.

I mean, come on, for someone who hates labels, you're quick to label anyone who disagrees with you as something that's easy to dismiss. You literally started that comment with "you are this label". I think in every response, you have labeled someone a liberal, Marxist, leftist, or something similar. I may have a lot of negative things to say about the modern Republican Party, but I don't think I've ever claimed someone was "just a Republican who would do this and that and this" as a way to discredit their argument.

A partisan conservative could make those claims, sure, but they know they would be in bad faith or based on incorrect information from Fox News. Either way, that's not refuting any of my claims, it's just trying to discredit me so you don't have to refute them. Mine are also concrete accusations. Claiming I'm "anti-American" is just nonsense; it's literally just a buzzword used to make someone an enemy. It's also a tactic from the alt right's blogger manifesto, as a way to maintain moral superiority.

I wish we could get off this notion that people are just smearing people who they "disagree with politically". It's dangerous and reductionist. Technically, America disagreed with the Nazis politically. It's this weird idea that Democrats put their partisan ideals above everything else, like assuming we don't want Bill Clinton arrested if he's implicated in the Epstein case. Every dem I know thinks Clinton should be arrested if implicated. But then look at how the Republican party behaves when it comes to wrongdoers in their own party. They'll just scream "fake news" and look the other way while criminals and pedophiles get off scott free (no pun intended...). Like most things they accuse the dems of, it's just projection. It's really pretty twisted.

 

[Onryoki]

Why can’t people just be on the side of politics they want to these days? It’s like “be left wing or you’re the devil”. Everybody has the right to have their own beliefs and political standpoints. It doesn’t matter wether or not someone is right or left wing.

Seriously, it’s just stupid that people end friendships, etc. Over who they voted for. I remember people getting publicly humiliated and get labelled as so many negative things simply because they voted for trump. Its more starting to look like the left is a hive mind instead individuals voting for what they believe in.

Dave, that's not what white privilege means. It doesn't mean nothing bad can ever happen to white people or that white people can't be born into terrible circumstances. It means that, at least here in America, if you are white then you have certain privileges over other people in your circumstances who are not white. That's it. You can disagree that those priveleges exist, sure, but your current definition of white privilege is incorrect.


"The American Dream" is a phrase invented by author James Adams in his book, Epic of America. It's essentially just an ad slogan to boost immigration. Just because other countries don't have a romantic slogan doesn't mean you can't make it in those countries, especially now in 2020.


I mean, come on, for someone who hates labels, you're quick to label anyone who disagrees with you as something that's easy to dismiss. I think in every response, you have labeled someone a liberal, Marxist, leftist, or something similar. I may have a lot of negative things to say about the modern Republican Party, but I don't think I've ever claimed someone was "just a Republican who would do this and that and this" as a way to discredit their argument.

A partisan conservative could make those claims, sure, but they know they would be in bad faith or based on incorrect information from Fox News. Either way, that's not refuting any of my claims, it's just trying to discredit me so you don't have to refute them. Mine are also concrete accusations. Claiming I'm "anti-American" is just nonsense; it's literally just a buzzword used to make someone an enemy. It's also a tactic from the alt right's blogger manifesto, as a way to maintain moral superiority.

I wish we could get off this notion that people are just smearing people who they "disagree with politically". It's dangerous and reductionist. Technically, America disagreed with the Nazis politically. It's this weird idea that Democrats put their partisan ideals above everything else, like assuming we don't want Bill Clinton arrested if he's implicated in the Epstein case. Every dem I know thinks Clinton should be arrested if implicated. But then look at how the Republican party behaves when it comes to wrongdoers in their own party. They'll just scream "fake news" and look the other way while criminals and pedophiles get off scott free (no pun intended...). Like most things they accuse the dems of, it's just projection. It's really pretty twisted.

oh lord not the “white privilege argument”. Honestly in what way are white people more privileged than black people? This whole “white privilege” nonsense has to die. People should stop defining themselves or others by the colours of their skin because it literally says nothing about one’s capabilities. Also “white privilege” is also very strange. You think a white woman would have more privileges than Oprah Winfrey, or the Obama’s? This “white people are more privileged that POC” argument only divides people more and make POC think they should work harder to achieve something opposed to white people.

Me as a black person has never experienced white people getting more privilege than I. If I don’t get a job I’m most likely unqualified for the job. I don’t blame others for not hiring me because I’m “black”. Employers shouldn’t hire people based on if they’re black or white but if they’re suited for the job or not. People need to quit behaving like victims and act like they’re less worth than a white person simply because they’re white and supposedly have more “privilege”. I don’t see myself as less than a white person simply for being black.

 

[Marlow]

White privilege is scientifically immeasurable because people are individuals.

Think of it in terms of probabilities. You can never know if your coin is fair, and every toss is an individual event. Yet every individual event is hinting at some sort of statistical distribution behind the scenes.

 

[Marlow]

Honestly in what way are white people more privileged than black people?

Do you like comic books?

 

[M2Dave]

One way to describe White Privilege is this:

Would you notice if an NBA team started 5 Black players, or is it the kind of thing you wouldn't think about until it was brought to your attention? What if it was 5 white players? This sort of default assumption is almost like breathing manually or being aware of what our tongue feels like in our mouths: you can MAKE yourself aware of it, but usually it's just background noise. White privilege is the default setting of being normal: a flesh colored crayon is white. Bugs Bunny is white, and he's a cartoon rabbit. If I asked someone to picture a bank CEO, or a doctor, or a lawyer in their head, odds are for all of those they'd picture a white man, even if I never specified race or gender. If I'm making a TV show about super powered mutants that travel through time solving crime that includes the President of the United States, I'm probably casting a white man as the President because that's what is considered "normal". If I'm making a movie about space samurai who have magic powers and fight with laser swords the lead character is likely a white male, because if I was to have a female or a person of color I'd be called out by the fan base for trying to be too woke.

Seven out of ten NBA players are black so an average person is likely to elicit a picture of a black player if basketball comes to mind. Likewise, all but one president have been white so an average person may imagine the president to be white. Furthermore, Asians are over-represented in STEM so an average person may assume an engineer to be Asian. These perceptions are based on statistics, not on racism or any particular malice. I have been trying to get you liberals to understand that not everything in America revolves around race.

I don’t see myself as less than a white person simply for being black.

Many white liberals see black people as an incompetent other who ought to be treated like a toddler. Meanwhile, sane white people see black people as individuals, their equal, and as competent as anyone else.

 

[Swindle]

Why can’t people just be on the side of politics they want to these days? It’s like “be left wing or you’re the devil”. Everybody has the right to have their own beliefs and political standpoints. It doesn’t matter wether or not someone is right or left wing.

Seriously, it’s just stupid that people end friendships, etc. Over who they voted for. I remember people getting publicly humiliated and get labelled as so many negative things simply because they voted for trump. Its more starting to look like the left is a hive mind instead individuals voting for what they believe in.



oh lord not the “white privilege argument”. Honestly in what way are white people more privileged than black people? This whole “white privilege” nonsense has to die. People should stop defining themselves or others by the colours of their skin because it literally says nothing about one’s capabilities. Also “white privilege” is also very strange. You think a white woman would have more privileges than Oprah Winfrey, or the Obama’s? This “white people are more privileged that POC” argument only divides people more and make POC think they should work harder to achieve something opposed to white people.

Me as a black person has never experienced white people getting more privilege than I. If I don’t get a job I’m most likely unqualified for the job. I don’t blame others for not hiring me because I’m “black”. Employers shouldn’t hire people based on if they’re black or white but if they’re suited for the job or not. People need to quit behaving like victims and act like they’re less worth than a white person simply because they’re white and supposedly have more “privilege”. I don’t see myself as less than a white person simply for being black.

Like, how Black are we talking? Me, I’m “pool hustler” Black. My brother, he’s “air traffic controller with a grudge” Black. My sister Chloe, she’s “Lonesome Dove” Black.

 

[KingHippo]

The fact of the matter is that discriminatory actions come for us all, eventually. Highly discriminatory housing and loan practices against blacks eventually just became the norm for everyone until the system collapsed and we went through a terrible recession that never really saw an increase in regulation. Policing that specifically focused on the poor and minority communities has now just become mainstream, with police forces acting like occupying forces to stop even the slightest restrictions on their power.

Hell, even Israeli apartheid practices against Palestinians are taught to US police officers as a means of control. Discrimination is a deeply ugly thing that infects all of society, and one can look no further than the police riots over this summer to see that it's always only a matter of time until the target becomes everyone else, too.

The conservative, right-wing belief is inherently that the rule of law is not binding to everyone equally because there is an inherent inequality in life. We are now seeing the fruits of that fundamental truth, as years of right and center-right policy have done little to correct the undemocratic elements of our system that already existed so much as expand upon that and make that the norm

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Seven out of ten NBA players are black so an average person is likely to elicit a picture of a black player if basketball comes to mind.

And what percentage of NBA comissioners and team owners? That's where white privilege comes into play.

Unless someone makes the argument that African-Americans simply aren't qualified to own and run the key units of a league that features 70% American-Players, or somehow just don't want to have the power (and both of those are pretty ridiculous arguments), it's pretty obvious.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Why can’t people just be on the side of politics they want to these days? It’s like “be left wing or you’re the devil”. Everybody has the right to have their own beliefs and political standpoints. It doesn’t matter wether or not someone is right or left wing.

Seriously, it’s just stupid that people end friendships, etc. Over who they voted for. I remember people getting publicly humiliated and get labelled as so many negative things simply because they voted for trump. Its more starting to look like the left is a hive mind instead individuals voting for what they believe in.

People are free to be on either side that they like. The issue is what the different sides represent. We have literal Nazis trying to make a comeback here in the US. That can be considered a political affiliation. Should we not judge people who identify as Nazis?

I don't think it's usually the differing views that end friendships, but the subsequent arguments. It's tough to remain respectful and constructive when you're passionate about something, and politics brings out that passion in people.

oh lord not the “white privilege argument”. Honestly in what way are white people more privileged than black people? This whole “white privilege” nonsense has to die. People should stop defining themselves or others by the colours of their skin because it literally says nothing about one’s capabilities. Also “white privilege” is also very strange. You think a white woman would have more privileges than Oprah Winfrey, or the Obama’s? This “white people are more privileged that POC” argument only divides people more and make POC think they should work harder to achieve something opposed to white people.

Me as a black person has never experienced white people getting more privilege than I. If I don’t get a job I’m most likely unqualified for the job. I don’t blame others for not hiring me because I’m “black”. Employers shouldn’t hire people based on if they’re black or white but if they’re suited for the job or not. People need to quit behaving like victims and act like they’re less worth than a white person simply because they’re white and supposedly have more “privilege”. I don’t see myself as less than a white person simply for being black.

There is enough evidence easily available that if you really wanted to know "in what way are white people more privileged than black people" then you would have found plenty of answers by now. So nothing we post here will change that.

You also have an inaccurate definition of what white privelege is. Please see my response to Dave.

Odds are, you have experienced it, you just weren't aware of it, kind of like when an attractive person receives special care and they don't realize not everyone is treated that way. But even if not, personal anecdotes are never a good source of information as opposed to peer-reviewed research.

"People need to quit behaving like victims and act like they’re less worth than a white person simply because they’re white and supposedly have more 'privilege'. I don’t see myself as less than a white person simply for being black." Again, that's not what white privelege means. And that's what's so frustrating about debating these issues. Most of the disagreements stem from a misunderstanding of the subject matter. Based on your post you want the same things as most people, like skin color not mattering, equality when it comes to hiring, and people being treated like they're equal. That's what I want too. But here we are arguing because the term "white privilege" have become politicized and mischaracterized.

 

[Marlow]

Seven out of ten NBA players are black so an average person is likely to elicit a picture of a black player if basketball comes to mind. Likewise, all but one president have been white so an average person may imagine the president to be white. Furthermore, Asians are over-represented in STEM so an average person may assume an engineer to be Asian. These perceptions are based on statistics, not on racism or any particular malice. I have been trying to get you liberals to understand that not everything in America revolves around race.

All of those instances are ones in which the demographics are wildly out of step with the total population and you have to posit a sociological reason for this. Are you saying that black people have a special gene that makes them good at basketball? Or that white people have a special gene that makes them more susceptible to becoming President?

NFL is another example. Almost 70% of the NFL is black, but only 17% of QB's are black. Are black athletes just not as good at QB?

White Privilege has little to do with racism or malice. The issue is that it's the kind of thing that just sits in the background and goes unnoticed, but it can end up having big ripple effects throughout society.

 

[kabelfritz]

White privilege is scientifically immeasurable because people are individuals. For example, I am white, yet my family and I lost everything, including family members, because of the Yugoslav Wars. I am sure that many black people in American were born into superior circumstances than I was while some others were not. White privilege paints every white person in America with a broad brush, which is why the term ought to be a joke to any sane human being.

finally its possible to understand you better on a personal basis. to me it seems that the USA have brought great improvements to your life, but sadly this has impressed you so much that you cant see that it doesnt work for everyone and there are still better systems out there.

 

[scarsunseen]

"White Privilege is a nonsensical term invented by far-left scholars whose objective is to shame people for their achievement."

@M2Dave This is straight up NOT the definition, objective, intent, etc behind the term in any way at all.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

@M2Dave @Onryoki if white privilege is nonsense, can one of you respond to the house appraisal article I linked earlier on ITT please? Conveniently, those of you who don’t acknowledge the FACT (it literally is one) of white privilege existing ignored that post. I wonder why.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

@M2Dave @Onryoki if white privilege is nonsense, can one of you respond to the house appraisal article I linked earlier on ITT please? Conveniently, those of you who don’t acknowledge the FACT (it literally is one) of white privilege existing ignored that post. I wonder why.

The same reason my points keep getting ignored in favor of ones that are slightly easier to pick apart and turn on their heads.

I will say again: if your argument relies on tearing people down and belittling your opponent rather than the reality of the situation and the facts of life of the people who live in it, then your argument sucks.