Erron Black General Discussion Thread

[Circus]

I apologize in advance for being a scrub, but I have a quick question on string startup frame data. So when looking at black's 1 normal it's 8 startup and -3 on block. When looking at black's 11 string it's 13 frames of startup. Are the 13 frames of startup in the 11 string for the second hit in the string or the collective startup frames for both moves (8 frames for 1 and 5 frames for the second 1)? In the past Ive seen string startup data look much lower indicating it's for the last move in the string listed, is that the case here? Not sure if I'm overthinking it, but since 1 is -3 on block, does that mean there's an 8 frame gap between 11? In general, how does one calculate string gaps? Just trying to learn more on frame data

The startup it shows on strings is the amount of time from the first hit to the second hit; the time between.
So if 1 starts in 8 frames and 12 says the startup is 13 frames, that means that there is a 11 frame gap between the standing 1 and the 12.

For example:

The startup on Baraka's F4 in the beta was 12frames. The startup on F44 was 6 frames.
This is why the animation for the move looked like two rapid kicks in quick succession. The gap between the F4 and the F44 was really small.

Hope this helps!

 

[SquidlyB]

The startup it shows on strings is the amount of time from the first hit to the second hit; the time between.

So if 1 starts in 8 frames and 12 says the startup is 13 frames, that means that there is a 11 frame gap between the standing 1 and the 12.

Looking at a three hit string like 114 the startup is 23 frames. Is that the time between the first and third hit, or second and third hit? 23 frames between consecutive hits seems really punishable if its the time between the second 1 and 4.

So the 11 frame gap is the 8 frames of startup plus the -3 block advantage? What is the general formula for gaps ? Startup + block advantage? Startup + active frames + block advantage?

Is it possible to use a 6 frame poke to hit your opponent after the first move of their string (assuming you block it) that has an 11 frame gap? Or is the reaction window to slim? Thanks again!

 

[Circus]

Looking at a three hit string like 114 the startup is 23 frames. Is that the time between the first and third hit, or second and third hit? 23 frames between consecutive hits seems really punishable if its the time between the second 1 and 4.

So the 11 frame gap is the 8 frames of startup plus the -3 block advantage? What is the general formula for gaps ? Startup + block advantage? Startup + active frames + block advantage?

Is it possible to use a 6 frame poke to hit your opponent after the first move of their string (assuming you block it) that has an 11 frame gap? Or is the reaction window to slim? Thanks again!

If 114 has 23 frame startup, that means that there is a 23 frame time-frame gap from 11 and 114. It applies from the move right before it, not the first move in the string.

And as far as your second question about poke-able gaps. This is completely new territory for me too, so I'm not 100% sure. Generally though, because of the blockstun from the previous hit in the string, a second hit of a string won't have a poke-able gap even though it has an 11 frame time-frame from the first and second move.
If there is a formula to determine if something is a poke-able gap, I'd LOVE to know too.

 

[HeroesNZ]

The start-up frames always refer to the start-up of that move. So in Erron's 114, if it says the start-up is 23 frames then what it's referring to is the last hit of that string, the 11(4) having 23 frames of start-up.

This lets you see what is a 50/50. Let's say Sub-Zero has a B12 string. If under B12 in the movelist it says Overhead and 16f startup then the OH part of that string - the B1(2) - starts in 16f which is unreactable, thus, he'd have a 50/50 between that and slide. If next to B12 it said like 28f then you know that's reactable and B12/B1 xx Slide is not a 50/50.

Unfortunately there is no way from the available frame-data to see how large a gap in a string is because that's about blockstun. That's something that needs to be done through testing. That's why for grapplers you can't see which attacks allow tick throws through the frame-data provided, because if there's too much blockstun you can't tick

 

[SquidlyB]

The start-up frames always refer to the start-up of that move. So in Erron's 114, if it says the start-up is 23 frames then what it's referring to is the last hit of that string, the 11(4) having 23 frames of start-up.

This lets you see what is a 50/50. Let's say Sub-Zero has a B12 string. If under B12 in the movelist it says Overhead and 16f startup then the OH part of that string - the B1(2) - starts in 16f which is unreactable, thus, he'd have a 50/50 between that and slide. If next to B12 it said like 28f then you know that's reactable and B12/B1 xx Slide is not a 50/50.

Unfortunately there is no way from the available frame-data to see how large a gap in a string is because that's about blockstun. That's something that needs to be done through testing. That's why for grapplers you can't see which attacks allow tick throws through the frame-data provided, because if there's too much blockstun you can't tick

This clears up gaps in strings quite a bit, thanks! More so about feeling out stun and testing it out in the lab.

 

[NewMK11Player]

Saw this variation on Twitter, Ill have to run with this in ranked for a while. Figure out some TNT toss setups aswell, sucks that he cant use his locked and loaded gun in this one, I saw some combos with it and it looks dope.

 

[ienjoywinning]

So I had some time with him today and I labbed his other variation (the one with the rifle moves , scud shot , and his 32 move from mkx) I personally liked this one waaaay more than the other , it gave you access to so many more strings for starters , including one for your advancing mid(s) which is safe and some high damage enders , it also gave your rifle some more shit like that including a launcher which combos off his long string (21212 or something like that) into 30%+ meterless. And it gave him a prone shot which low profiles like crazy and it does 20%+ if amplified and you also reload much faster in this variation. He also gets his scud shot (one where he shots his gun at projectiles ) and its honestly amazing for counter zoning any projectile "fireball" , even low ones and you can ex on reaction to punish their fireballs or if someone like kang decides to do something like his dragon kick you can also punish it on reaction. So overall it's his counter zoning and zoning that stands out the most to me , he has good forward advancing mids but his f3( one shown in stream) has a gap so it's not as good as I thought it would be , but he has better ones for sure. As for combo/damage potential it's kinda ass but I didnt get too much, one of your crushing blows off of 21212 launches and also I only managed to link rifle stance into 2 on his 21212 string. I'll have more time tommorow

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

If 114 has 23 frame startup, that means that there is a 23 frame time-frame gap from 11 and 114. It applies from the move right before it, not the first move in the string.

And as far as your second question about poke-able gaps. This is completely new territory for me too, so I'm not 100% sure. Generally though, because of the blockstun from the previous hit in the string, a second hit of a string won't have a poke-able gap even though it has an 11 frame time-frame from the first and second move.
If there is a formula to determine if something is a poke-able gap, I'd LOVE to know too.

I am fairly certain the formula for cancel block advantage is startup + active + recovery - cancel advantage + block advantage

So Erron Black's 1,1 would be 13 + 2 + 20 - 18 + 0 = 17

Since 1,1,4 startup is 23 frames there should be a 6 frame gap

 

[Circus]

It looks like Sonic Fox has settled on wanting to main Erron Black btw. Pretty cool that he's committing again to him. Apparently he's a pretty great pick.

Updated Frame Data with both variation specials thanks to @ShepherdOfFire btw:

 

[SaltShaker]

It looks like Sonic Fox has settled on wanting to main Erron Black btw. Pretty cool that he's committing again to him. Apparently he's a pretty great pick.

Updated Frame Data with both variation specials thanks to @ShepherdOfFire btw:

Erron Black has a 6F D1 that's -3 on block in MK11??? Is this the only character with such??? 7F D3 and 8F D4 all safe lol wow.

Not a surprise Sonic, not a surprise. -.-

 

[ruskor]

launcher which combos off his long string (21212 or something like that) into 30%+ meterless.

I can't get this to work. not after his 2nd hit or his 3rd hit. and I can't cancel after the 4th.

Spoiler: here is my take.

 

[lionheart21]

Just noticed that his F4 can be amplified and turned into a low. Since his F4 can be a Krushing Blow when used twice in a row, I wonder that if you can use the F4 and then use an amplified F4 (or vice versa) and have that work.

 

[ienjoywinning]

I can't get this to work. not after his 2nd hit or his 3rd hit. and I can't cancel after the 4th.

Spoiler: here is my take.

The timing is weird, dont input it instantly but rather wait for his 4th hit I think , one of them will link into the launcher. Also errons prone shot low profiles liu kangs low fireballs.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Erron Black has a 6F D1 that's -3 on block in MK11??? Is this the only character with such??? 7F D3 and 8F D4 all safe lol wow.

Not a surprise Sonic, not a surprise. -.-

Jax has a 15f forward advancing mid thats +6 on block ( think his f3 or f4 in mkx , dont remember which) and has a 0 on block 8f d1.

 

[ruskor]

The timing is weird, dont input it instantly but rather wait for his 4th hit I think , one of them will link into the launcher. Also errons prone shot low profiles liu kangs low fireballs.

Yeah my timing was off, damn it's easier than I tought. Thanks alot man.

 

[ruskor]

Just noticed that his F4 can be amplified and turned into a low. Since his F4 can be a Krushing Blow when used twice in a row, I wonder that if you can use the F4 and then use an amplified F4 (or vice versa) and have that work.

His F4 amp only works on whiff, it resets the krushing blow counter. If I understand correctly what you meant. But for example F4 hits, F4 whiff, next F4 will still krush. Anytime you used amp it resets so you need to hit 2 again.

 

[NewMK11Player]

So for those of you who have the game, what is your preferred variation so far? Ranked and tourney versions only

 

[ienjoywinning]

Couple things ive noticed so far , f21 and b122 and f32 are definitely gonna be your go to strings/mids in the neuch, f21 has a shit ton of range is 15f , -6 on block with pushback and it also behaves like 32 in mkx where the second part of the string shoots a bullet that goes fullscreen , so to get whiff punished theyll have to do it before that happens. b122 is basically the same except it's faster with slightly less range, its -8 but it has more pushback and the shots also come out and block. F32 is good ,-5 but it has a gap. His pokes are great , d1 is 6f on startup and -3 on block. While his d4 low profiles alot of shit(lots of d4s do that in this game for some reason) and also comes out at 9f. Overall I think hes solid but playing vs any character with a tele or something like a nomad dash will be aids since reloading is a problem.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Also 21212 is your highest damage punisher around 27% meterless with acid so pretty decent

 

[nightcrawlers]

soo whats the deal with none of the pro-players/streamers messing around with Aaron?

Maybe just missed it, but not seeing him get a ton of attention.

 

[M2Dave]

Also 21212 is your highest damage punisher around 27% meterless with acid so pretty decent

In the first variation, 2,1,2,1,2 xx (cancel before the last hit) b,f+4, 2, 1,1,1 xx slide works for 30% of damage, but you have to hit 1,1,1 high enough for the slide to connect. 1,1,4 is the easier alternative that does 27% of damage but provides a +35 knockdown advantage.

In the second variation, I have found nothing that ticks into command throw aside from all the low pokes (i.e., d+1, d+3, and d+4).

soo whats the deal with none of the pro-players/streamers messing around with Aaron?

Maybe just missed it, but not seeing him get a ton of attention.

Sonic Fox is using him on stream right now along with D'Vorah.

 

[nightcrawlers]

just saw sonic's stream.. erron looking great!

 

[ienjoywinning]

In the first variation, 2,1,2,1,2 xx (cancel before the last hit) b,f+4, 2, 1,1,1 xx slide works for 30% of damage, but you have to hit 1,1,1 high enough for the slide to connect. 1,1,4 is the easier alternative that does 27% of damage but provides a +35 knockdown advantage.

In the second variation, I have found nothing that ticks into command throw aside from all the low pokes (i.e., d+1, d+3, and d+4).



Sonic Fox is using him on stream right now along with D'Vorah.

From what I've seen doing f32 into db1 after the 21212 bf4 pop up is the most consistent and nets you good damage you can also do slide just for meterless damage , amplified slide is really strong you get up really fast after you throw the acid. In the corner the highest I've found is : 21212 bf4 u2 , 1 , 21 ,21212 for around 35% meterless and oki , also his dd3 is probably his best special atm as it makes your strings waay less minus if you cancel and also has very little recovery which let's you move pretty quick. you can abuse this with f32 and b2u4 like sonic was doing. I definitely think his f32 string is better now and overall he looks rock solid in his second variation with some ridiculously good counter zoning and zoning along with good normals

 

[SaltShaker]

Lol Sonic making Erron look Godlike.

 

[M2Dave]

From what I've seen doing f32 into db1 after the 21212 bf4 pop up is the most consistent and nets you good damage you can also do slide just for meterless damage , amplified slide is really strong you get up really fast after you throw the acid. In the corner the highest I've found is : 21212 bf4 u2 , 1 , 21 ,21212 for around 35% meterless and oki , also his dd3 is probably his best special atm as it makes your strings waay less minus if you cancel and also has very little recovery which let's you move pretty quick. you can abuse this with f32 and b2u4 like sonic was doing. I definitely think his f32 string is better now and overall he looks rock solid in his second variation with some ridiculously good counter zoning and zoning along with good normals

You are right. f+3,2 is the best option after 2,1,2,1,2. I still think 1,1,4 is good too.

I also noticed the slighter better frames on the canceled d,d+3, but I was not entirely certain so I did not want to spread any misinformation.

Speaking of d,d+3, you can do b+2,2,2 xx d,d+3, d+1 xx fatal blow mid screen. LOL.

Can the second hit of b+2,u+4 be flawless blocked? I can flawless block f+3,2.

The acid puddle seems to be the best round closer at the moment and 2,1,2,1,2 has to be one of the best jab strings. The full screen 10 frame fatal blow is amazing. I agree that he is looking solid.

By the way, we need a shorter name for 2,1,2,1,2. Typing the numbers takes too long. LOL.