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Erron Black General Discussion Thread

Art Lean

Noob
Anyone else noticed that his 'Confederate' skin (the khaki-coloured variant of his civil war uniform skins) has been renamed to 'Outworld Drifter' at some point recently? I'm not trying to open a can of worms for opinion on that though, just a little observation and I get why but can't see any reference to it on the internet (must be really recent as "Outworld Drifter" as a search title into Google has no exact matches to the subject matter), and I don't recall there ever having been any outcry that it was called 'Confederate' in the first place... but, ya know, I get it.
 
Hi Errongang, there’s not a ton of activity in this general discussion so instead of starting a new thread I just wanted to list out a few underrated, underappreciated, or just things that I find notable about Erron. I don’t pretend to be some great player but I have a lot of experience with the cowboy and mostly just think he deserves some extra conversation – after over a year I still can’t quite quit him, even as I’ve picked up others. Here are a few things I encourage any Erron player to at least fool around with, even if they seem obvious, counterintuitive, or even (god forbid) unsafe.

This is mostly relating to the Erron variation that fits my playstyle the best, 52 Kard pickup aka basic biotch Erron. This is primarily because:

V1 Erron can be played ridiculously lame, and imo should be, most of the time. I will go so far as to say that if you are going in with Erron and have anything close to a lifelead, you are making a pretty big mistake. This is of course situational and doesn’t apply to every MU. The reasons are pretty simple; it’s tough to advance against scud shot. It can snipe jumpers and any advancing move, and freezes anyone with a brain cell in place. By its very nature, you are slowing the game down which gives meter time to recharge, which gives you more scud.

I’ll talk about the acid more shortly but this synergizes very well here as a keep-out tool. They obviously can’t projectile you so it comes down to this; scud shot gives you a great chance of doing damage without them being able to damage you, and that’s invaluable, especially for a character that doesn’t do mindblowing damage (at face value – he actually melts lifebars as everyone knows).

The other component here are his actual zoning tools, which I have found many v1 errons underrate or don’t use properly. It’s true they take a lot of time to come out – but scud shot buys you that time. Being full screen definitely buys you that time. And each of his ‘ghetto zoning’ strings have specific purposes. Real quick run-down:

B122 – the double hitting high. This does decent chip but most importantly is pretty active (for jumpers) and honestly for a game that’s this far into it’s lifecycle, too many people forget it’s a double hit and let go of block.

F2121 – jump on me about terminology all you want but I consider this a legitimate projectile stagger. F21 will get you a full-screen check, valuable, and catch a ton of people in start-up or trying to move if you finish the screen.

Both of these strings are unfortunately built into advancing mids so they’re not great for anything but long-distance but the reality is people get frustrated trying to get in on erron and they connect. A scudshot here, a gunstring there, mix in a little acid or rifle and by the time the monsters of the Kombat League get in on you they are missing a big chunk of their life.

The king of all these strings is 32. I don’t know how this doesn’t get more love – I guess the damage really sucks. But it’s damage in concert with all his other tools, and space control, because this gunshot hits mid which lets you buy time while your meter is empty and provides a very hard knockdown. s3 is something you can throw out without much risk either so you can play head games without committing to the shot.

I personally feel pretty naked without the gunstrings – they whittle lifebars down and most people just don’t seem to expect them. Let’s move on.

B1 and F2 are pretty forgotten buttons, even by a lot of Erron mains. They’re not hit-confirmable (F2 debatable but I can’t do it consistently) but they work great in a lot of scenarios – F2 is a great punishing tool when b2 or even f3 can’t reach, and can obviously go into LnL combos on a read.

b1 is sneakily a mediocre antiair but more importantly, if you’ve established b122 in any way, I don’t think there’s a player in the world who is looking out for b1>throw. F2 is similar but I think the word might be out a little more. Although F21 gives you a strong strike/throw mindgame to throw out there as well, it will get you big time punished if blocked, whereas b122 is safe with its pushback. Since b1 is an advancing mid with pretty good range for 13 frames, you can get a throw in pretty much whenever you want, which is pretty handy considering erron has a great throw game including a KB.

Brief interlude on throws: no one in the game has better pokes than Erron for my money, so the opportunity to throw is there a lot. If you’re playing lame, you are going to sneak in d4s and d3s on advancing opponents quite a bit, and thus get your throws. Erron’s pokes of course jail into the b222 string for anyone who decides to duck or press on hit like a complete animal.

The classic Erron stagger, 21, is still alive, I don’t care that it supposedly got nerfed. Playing by the book, the stagger is now just s2 and that is very effective as well, just not as safe as good old 21. You will still find people holding block and getting thrown either out of muscle memory or because it is just too big a risk to eat the full combo/21212 KB into okie.

Oh yeah and if you didn’t know for some reason, erron has incredible throw range, no one is safe. Forward throw puts them at full screen where they can eat scud/acid/rifle/strings and back throw leads to huge frame advantage.

Unfortunately frame advantage on knockdown is horrible in this game. If I had a gun to my head, I would say I have probably eaten more damage off trying to get wakeup pressure than anything else, just because erron has dial-in strings as his main tools. In keeping with the ‘lame’ mentality, I recommend okie pressuring with d3, d1, sweep (only -1) or for the sake of your gameplan, backdash backdash backdash.

More random things that aren’t appreciated enough:
Erron’s AAs are not stellar, but s1 will get you there on a read. This is important if you’re backing up all day, because they will jump in on you.

Errons j1 is an excellent air-to-air and will connect with the f32slide, again great on a read. Making reads against jumps is probably the toughest part of playing Erron and these are very helpful. Otherwise, there’s no real harm in trying to flawless block u2 or just holding your block and waiting for an opportunity to get a poke in.

Stagger game layers:
S2>throw will work quite often, but if they start to pick up on it, s2 into b2 is pretty funny. When b2 trades, you will almost always have more hit advantage so go ahead and throw another one out to beat their follow-up poke or jump. I’m talking about single b2 here which, yes, is an unsafe button. However, MK11 players have been conditioned to expect so many follow-ups from b2, including slide shenanigans, that b2 on its lonesome has become a stagger in my book. You can throw after it, 21, poke, or even another b2 and people will struggle to get a button out. If they do, that’s fine too – it just increases the chances they will press after the first hit of b222.

I’m not going to get into slide mix stuff because everyone knows it, it’s there if you really need it, I don’t recommend it. It is funny against sub zeros and sindels because screw em. I don’t even think it’s that cheap given what other characters can do off unsafe mixes, we just get a little reward, but it’s of course the frame advantage afterwards and your ability to do whatever you want that is the real prize.

Errons d2 is underrated but not as an AA – you get some good spacing out of it on block. A blocked d2 and a backdash puts you at a range where you have a lot of options.

Playing lame also puts you in the position of not needing f4 very much, and almost never raw slide. This is great because your opponent seeing an erron at ¾ or more screen is almost definitely looking for one of those, so they will eat more chip, acid, and bullets willingly. This of course is a great set-up for when you do pull the trigger on f4.

The f4 kb can be held forever by the way if you want to disguise your movement/blocking to not be obvious that you’re hanging onto it. This will work sometimes but generally is not a great idea.

Finally let’s talk about your best friend and mine, acid. Unless I’m playing someone throwing out crazy shit like wakeup flying kick, acid after every throw or hard knockdown is usually a good move. It gets people moving when they don’t want to be. It does decent damage. It keeps people away. It’s the game’s best finishing move and really reinforces the lame gameplan. Seeing someone ducking while in the acid as you fire off rifle shots above them is a hilarious way to end a round. It of course synergizes with the backthrow to a ridiculous degree. It’s Erron’s best move.

Thanks for reading – this is obviously not a guide and more just a random collection of thoughts and notes because I personally think Erron is the game’s most fun character – yet people seem to disrespect him and his players for playing cheap, relying on mixups, or not having a strategy. I posted this here because I like the idea of anyone else appreciating him too, in a world of lius and scorpions and a shockingly high number of kotal’s recently. Anyway, have fun out there everyone.
 
I haven't put significant time into this game in a minute but I still spent a shitload of time on this character. I felt like a lot of people didn't understand how the character works so it's cool to see this post. I guess I'll just go point by point and comment on what I think is interesting or discussion worthy.

This is mostly relating to the Erron variation that fits my playstyle the best, 52 Kard pickup aka basic biotch Erron. This is primarily because:

V1 Erron can be played ridiculously lame, and imo should be, most of the time. I will go so far as to say that if you are going in with Erron and have anything close to a lifelead, you are making a pretty big mistake. This is of course situational and doesn’t apply to every MU. The reasons are pretty simple; it’s tough to advance against scud shot. It can snipe jumpers and any advancing move, and freezes anyone with a brain cell in place. By its very nature, you are slowing the game down which gives meter time to recharge, which gives you more scud.

I’ll talk about the acid more shortly but this synergizes very well here as a keep-out tool. They obviously can’t projectile you so it comes down to this; scud shot gives you a great chance of doing damage without them being able to damage you, and that’s invaluable, especially for a character that doesn’t do mindblowing damage (at face value – he actually melts lifebars as everyone knows).
I primarily play Barking Irons but I think V1 is necessary for some matchups. They're both viable imo but I always saw V1 as the more stable variation while V2 had the higher ceiling. That is, V1 is really consistent and can do the same thing pretty much every game, which is like you said being lame and annoying with puddle and scud. (I would throw rifle shot in there too. More on that later) V2 on the other hand has rounds where you just get in once and smoke them and rounds where you get a command grab D2 Kb'ed and don't have defensive meter for breakaway. This volatility is exacerbated imo by the slightly higher execution requirement to play V2, as it's really easy to mess up a micro-dash command grab or command grab out of a slide cancel and just lose the round on the spot (though my execution sucks and I don't practice it). V1 doesn't have this problem but also has those blowout rounds less frequently since the offense is less threatening. In my experience, V1 only straight melts the opponent if you get lucky with a 21212/D2 KB or catch them in the corner without meter. In that sense, the scud nerfs really shifted the focus of the variation. Now it just wins by dominating the midrange with his broken pokes and forcing people to play around acid and scud. And of course V1 is still the king of making checkmate end-of-round situations.

The other component here are his actual zoning tools, which I have found many v1 errons underrate or don’t use properly. It’s true they take a lot of time to come out – but scud shot buys you that time. Being full screen definitely buys you that time. And each of his ‘ghetto zoning’ strings have specific purposes. Real quick run-down:

B122 – the double hitting high. This does decent chip but most importantly is pretty active (for jumpers) and honestly for a game that’s this far into it’s lifecycle, too many people forget it’s a double hit and let go of block.

F2121 – jump on me about terminology all you want but I consider this a legitimate projectile stagger. F21 will get you a full-screen check, valuable, and catch a ton of people in start-up or trying to move if you finish the screen.

Both of these strings are unfortunately built into advancing mids so they’re not great for anything but long-distance but the reality is people get frustrated trying to get in on erron and they connect. A scudshot here, a gunstring there, mix in a little acid or rifle and by the time the monsters of the Kombat League get in on you they are missing a big chunk of their life.

The king of all these strings is 32. I don’t know how this doesn’t get more love – I guess the damage really sucks. But it’s damage in concert with all his other tools, and space control, because this gunshot hits mid which lets you buy time while your meter is empty and provides a very hard knockdown. s3 is something you can throw out without much risk either so you can play head games without committing to the shot.

I personally feel pretty naked without the gunstrings – they whittle lifebars down and most people just don’t seem to expect them. Let’s move on.
I actually never thought too highly of the V1 specific strings, except maybe for 32. I just always thought at that the distances that these strings are useful (or at the very least, not punishable), Erron just has better options. At anything more than half screen, any opponent with a decent projectile is tempted to use it. Of course they have to consider amp scud but honestly, trading 7% to get Erron off a bar of meter is something I would take any day of the week if I'm the opponent. So when it comes down to these fullscreen. projectile vs. projectile situations, I really think comitting to these slow strings for medicore projectiles is not a good idea. It always seemed like if I used these strings, I was at best trading with a projectile and getting hit before the gunshots the other times. B122 shots being high is a deal breaker for me, and I'm not sure if I've ever used F21 1+2 on purpose. 32 is actually pretty decent since it's relatively fast and the shot is mid, and it's the only one I actually used.

Which brings me to the real zoning tool of this variation in imo, which is the rifle. Playing keepaway is really enabled by a combination of scud and enhanced LnL, specifially the fast reload and to a lesser extent, low shot and drop shot. My current opinion is that fast reload is the most impactful part of enhanced LnL, as it legitimately adds another dimension to the variation. Fast reload allows you to load at least 2, probably 3 or 4 bullets after any landed straight shot or low shot knockdown. This is provided you're ok with trading some health for bullets, as you might eat a projectile at the end of your reload depending on the character. But considering how powerful the bullets are, this is a trade I am willing to take in almost any situation. Rifle stance can also just straight up outzone certain characters depending on their projectile, as you can just stay in rifle stance and low profile bad projectiles with low shot/drop shot on reaction, reload on knockdown, and keep going. This is something I do at lot in some matchups, specifically Joker comes to mind. So while I agree with you that the zoning is decent, I think the rifle is the real star and everything else compliements it.

B1 and F2 are pretty forgotten buttons, even by a lot of Erron mains. They’re not hit-confirmable (F2 debatable but I can’t do it consistently) but they work great in a lot of scenarios – F2 is a great punishing tool when b2 or even f3 can’t reach, and can obviously go into LnL combos on a read.
I've been on the "F2 is great" train for a while now and I think it has some great uses. Having a 15 frame far-advancing mid (except against Liu) that's only -3 is sick. I think it's best utility is checking an advancing opponent like if you read a dash up or something. You can always do F2 xx amp scud if you're not confident in your confirms, but the reward for F2 xx LnL in V1 is so high that I think it's important to be able to do consistently. Even if the F2 is blocked, you can confirm and put away rifle and it's still pretty hard to punish. Your opponent really has to be on top of the situation to cleanly punish it. But yea F2 is amazing. B1 I can take it or leave it. I feel like its just outclassed by B2 and F2 outside of random okie doke situations like you mention.

The classic Erron stagger, 21, is still alive, I don’t care that it supposedly got nerfed. Playing by the book, the stagger is now just s2 and that is very effective as well, just not as safe as good old 21. You will still find people holding block and getting thrown either out of muscle memory or because it is just too big a risk to eat the full combo/21212 KB into okie.
I think the 21 nerf is the most significant one the character has experienced and it kind of came out of nowhere. I think you're right in that s2 stagger effectively serves the same purpose but having the second hit mid to catch D2 mashing was nice. I think 21 is just not good anymore since it effectively ends your offense if you use it, but this could just be me seeing it through a V2 lens where I try to get maximum offense every time I touch them. I hate using 21 because it's such an obvious chance to take their turn back and not really a pressure tool anymore imo. I've almost stopped using it entirely.

Erron’s AAs are not stellar, but s1 will get you there on a read. This is important if you’re backing up all day, because they will jump in on you.

Errons j1 is an excellent air-to-air and will connect with the f32slide, again great on a read. Making reads against jumps is probably the toughest part of playing Erron and these are very helpful. Otherwise, there’s no real harm in trying to flawless block u2 or just holding your block and waiting for an opportunity to get a poke in.
Agree on his anti airs being booboo. I think s1 is awful and in V1 at least he has the option of s2 xx rising stock for a decent combo, though s2 really only catches really bad, far jumps. Honestly, I've almost just given up on his normals as AAs and just try to flawless block U3 every jump in now. I never U2 because it's really inconsistent and doesn't have invincibility. U3 leaves them standing and you get a mixup if it lands, but I think this comes down to the variation. V1 can get a meterless puddle so I guess U2 is usable, but I still don't trust the hitbox of it.

Something you didn't mention is his anti-crossup game. I think it's at least above average since he has a few good options. D1 has a great hitbox, is fast, and connects with F32 on most heights. D3 low profiles a decent amount of attacks or can even snipe them out of the air, so it's definitely worth using. V1 has the privilege of D+F3, which low profiles literally almost everything since the hurtbox is almost non-existent, so it's actually a very relevant move if using V1.

S2>throw will work quite often, but if they start to pick up on it, s2 into b2 is pretty funny. When b2 trades, you will almost always have more hit advantage so go ahead and throw another one out to beat their follow-up poke or jump. I’m talking about single b2 here which, yes, is an unsafe button. However, MK11 players have been conditioned to expect so many follow-ups from b2, including slide shenanigans, that b2 on its lonesome has become a stagger in my book. You can throw after it, 21, poke, or even another b2 and people will struggle to get a button out. If they do, that’s fine too – it just increases the chances they will press after the first hit of b222.
One thing I wanted to expand on here that I think is very, very relevant is B2 trading during pressure. The hit animation for B2 is crazy long since they sort of stagger backwards. If you manage to trade a B2 with a poke, you'll recover in time to combo the B2 into another B222. This acutally comes up pretty regularly, so it's something I think is important to be mindful of during staggers.

Playing lame also puts you in the position of not needing f4 very much, and almost never raw slide. This is great because your opponent seeing an erron at ¾ or more screen is almost definitely looking for one of those, so they will eat more chip, acid, and bullets willingly. This of course is a great set-up for when you do pull the trigger on f4.

The f4 kb can be held forever by the way if you want to disguise your movement/blocking to not be obvious that you’re hanging onto it. This will work sometimes but generally is not a great idea.
This suppose this is because I play V2 but F4 is my most used move haha. It's just to force the issue and make them deal with Erron at close range. Also holding the F4 KB is such a big brain move. One of my personal favorites is winning a round with F4, then F4 immediately at the start of next round for the KB.

Finally let’s talk about your best friend and mine, acid. Unless I’m playing someone throwing out crazy shit like wakeup flying kick, acid after every throw or hard knockdown is usually a good move. It gets people moving when they don’t want to be. It does decent damage. It keeps people away. It’s the game’s best finishing move and really reinforces the lame gameplan. Seeing someone ducking while in the acid as you fire off rifle shots above them is a hilarious way to end a round. It of course synergizes with the backthrow to a ridiculous degree. It’s Erron’s best move.
I feel like I see people say Acid is his best move a lot but I'm not sure I agree with it tbh. V2 being viable without it makes me want to say it's not true, and he has 3 pokes that are all in the running for the best move in the game imo. I feel like if people knew how to play around acid it would make V1's job a lot harder. Most people fall into the trap of letting it dictate their movement and force them into bad choices like jumping, when really if you just show you don't care about it or walk forward it loses a lot of its impact. Of course its round-closing utility is top tier and it's not bad in the corner.

Overall great post mate. I love seeing actual insight into the character.
 
Love it man. I 1000% agree that the b2 trade with a poke is a hugely important part of Erron. V2 is a wild beast, I have never fully wrapped my head around it but seeing it at a high level is always a pleasure. Seeing the mention of the F4 kb lasting through rounds reminds me of some other weird wild erron maneuvers that no one should try but work anyway:

D4 slide. Yes it's low>low so it shouldn't work,, but the hit advantage on d4 is so wonky that people try to press, jump, etc. All the time. This is the crack addict cousin of d4 scud shot, but not as fun.

Short hop 2 -- errons is shockingly good and considering he doesn't have an OH starter, you should try to have this in your bag because everyone in the world is looking for his low pokes, especially in okie situations.

The non-mixup rifle mixup -- b22 into lnl into...3?? (The quick OH bop). This should not work but my theory is people see action in the middle of a combo and react like you've gone to slide. The OH hitting lets you do whatever you want, including emptying the magazine. Alternatively, you can get low shot in here. I am not super well versed in rifle melee craziness but players like JoshTQ work miracles with them.

D3 is such a universal button that it antiairs relatively effectively.

The classic b4 into d3 works well. Most people don't realize sweep is only -1 so i don't even really consider following up with a loe profiling poke 'mashing' since its there for you.

B4 generally is a tech-focused button, going under things like barakas 112, geras f212, jaxs f33throw, etc. D4 low profiles many mids, most especially liu's f43.

Also no one erases johnny like erron. We have great tech against f344 and low profile his bs, negate the fireballs, etc.