Combo List - Erron Black Erron Black Combo Thread (Updated 15.05.15)

[NQuad1Zero]

I know Marksman is dead (EB in general is dead EDIT:Gunslinger's good I guess, but he's still not that great imo. Too many issues with mids and being unable to open up opponents) but incase anyone likes to see marksman B1 and B2 antiair swag, I've labbed some optimal combo routes for antiairs (and three 3-bar combos. Combos are in descriptions)

 

[24K]

Why do you think EB is dead.

 

[JDM]

gunslinger is legit good

 

[Gofer_MK]

gunslinger is legit good

Well, he is good but not overly good. And has some big MU problems. But then again I might suck donkey balls and my grinding for the past two weeks has no merit.

 

[SpecOps2013]

Erron Black's lack of a mid is starting to annoy me. Maybe I am a noob for asking this question, but what the hell am I supposed to do after a d1 on hit? 21122 is a high so the opponent can just mash out his low poke. I can't do f13,f242,b33,grab or 112 either. So can someone please enlighten me on this? Thanks

 

[Gofer_MK]

Erron Black's lack of a mid is starting to annoy me. Maybe I am a noob for asking this question, but what the hell am I supposed to do after a d1 on hit? 21122 is a high so the opponent can just mash out his low poke. I can't do f13,f242,b33,grab or 112 either. So can someone please enlighten me on this? Thanks

I grab people. Only reasonable choice. You can also try B33/B31 as people tend do push buttons after your D1, but you have to be frame perfect. Most comical bullshiet is the range which EXSand Granade leaves opponents on block. You are +6 but can't do shiet.

Also, EB has gaps all over the place and people are starting to jump out SOS3 more often than not... or armroring through... a couple of dudes even poked me out of it after a string...

 

[Gofer_MK]

Oh, and the fing slide... He jumps so people can catch him, and EXSlide loses armor at some point.

 

[JDM]

Erron Black's lack of a mid is starting to annoy me. Maybe I am a noob for asking this question, but what the hell am I supposed to do after a d1 on hit? 21122 is a high so the opponent can just mash out his low poke. I can't do f13,f242,b33,grab or 112 either. So can someone please enlighten me on this? Thanks

21122 jails off of a D1 on hit mang. Just gotta tighten up your execution. (Can't check right now but I'm pretty sure it jails on hit)

 

[Ghosty1981]

21122 jails off of a D1 on hit mang. Just gotta tighten up your execution. (Can't check right now but I'm pretty sure it jails on hit)

Pretty sure d1 doesn't link with 21122, but I'm not near the console at the moment. Anyone able to check the frame data?

If d1 linked into 21122 you wouldn't see many people complaining about Erron Black at all.

 

[21122]

Pretty sure d1 doesn't link with 21122, but I'm not near the console at the moment. Anyone able to check the frame data?

If d1 linked into 21122 you wouldn't see many people complaining about Erron Black at all.

D1 links with 21122

Uh, not true. 21122 isn't that good anymore.

 

[Ghosty1981]

D1 links with 21122

Uh, not true. 21122 isn't that good anymore.

Wouldn't think so.

That would essentially make 21122 a mid starter, the one thing folks on this forum have been asking for since the game came out.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Erron Black's lack of a mid is starting to annoy me. Maybe I am a noob for asking this question, but what the hell am I supposed to do after a d1 on hit? 21122 is a high so the opponent can just mash out his low poke. I can't do f13,f242,b33,grab or 112 either. So can someone please enlighten me on this? Thanks

The only thing you can really do with d1 is a YOLO grab and hope they block. If you hit them with d1 then of course they blow you up when you wiff the grab. Sure, you might land the grab, but miss and you eat a full combo. Nice trade, eh?

Decent poke, nothing to do with it.

 

[Ghosty1981]

I realize now I may have misunderstood the prior post about jailing.

Yes, after a d1 hit you can go into 21122 and they must block, but that doesn't give EB much to work with either.

You have 211~grab and you are in the same spot you were with a d1~grab, with the same risk of a full combo punish. 21122~exSG is easily blocked (or jumped in the case of 2112, at the cost of a knockdown and minimal health lost) and gives EB nothing but a burned bar. 21122~SoS3 gets jumped and punished hard.

So d1 into 21122 on hit leaves you more likely to get a full combo punish than to damage them, and if they know how to play and you guess right on your grab that is 13% and chip damage at best.

When EB had multiple tick throws out of 21122 it was a nice tool. Now, not so much.

 

[24K]

I still love 21122. You have 3 or 4 places in that string to end it. Into a few options. You only really have to worry about it on block anyway. Hit stun somebody and go ham with 21122.

I find, on block, a quick cancel into up shot or whatever SOS that is, catches most people. And thats only if they guess right on when you are going to cancel out of 21122. They can't do much on reaction becaus by the time they start pressing buttons the upshot is active. With some character specific knowledge you will learn whhich to go with, the upshot, or the 3 low 1 mid shooty shooty bang bang thing. It's been a while since I have looked at the move names.
If they guess wrong your smilling anyway. Then just condition them to never know when it will happen.
On a side note you dont have to even cancell it. I often just let the whole string fly and then go in for some mix up love. And I may be wrong but after the whole against a blocking opponet you can just back dash. But I havent tried that in months. It might just have been working with the people I was playing against. And I am 6% sure coin off ceiling head drill fuck you shot comes out quick enough to trade with any non armour move. Again, could have just been against the people I was playing with. Which just makes some space between you and you can tech roll to safety if their hit was a knock down.

EB is my fave character and I find Gunslinger to be to much fun. I feel he is an odd character that a lot of people don't get. He has "zoning" tools, but he isn't a zoning charatcer. I use the zoning stuff to entice my opponets to put more movement into their game. Instead of just standing around zoning me. Then when they move I just go into a footsie heavy play and make an opening. Obviously a lot easier said than done. But EB is so versatile you can either control a certain part of the screen or use what he has to take the match in a different direction.

That magic coin hip shot to much money here have some move is to tits as well. Anti air with that and you can combo off of it. If I recall correctly you can even catch them with the last bit of the 21122 string. Not the best option, but when learning to catch them after that coin its quick and easier.

He breaks armour like mad if you know which tricky slick shots to use on the specific character you are playing against.
And he reminds me of Denis from Spongebob. Hands down the coolest character in the game. And when you know how to irritate with his tools you will 9 out of 10 times irritate your opponent into playing your game.


PS, can somebody tell me what the names of his dam moves are.

 

[24K]

Excuse the spelling mistakes. I was trying to type that while my boss was sneaking around.

This is a bit daft, and I probably shouldn't ask this for fear of looking retarded after playing fighting games for so many years. But whats the fuss about the mid. It can be blocked crouching or standing. Seems to be a bit useless to me. Highs and lows put your opponent in the position to have to know how you play to make the read on what you will do. And you can tell if your opponent is a crouch blocker or not.

And with his throws, I am terrible at getting a normal throw. So I don't use them that often. Other when I am trying to practice them. I generally just hit confirm off a poke into comand grab.

But having said all of this. Has there been a new patch recently. I havent played online in a while and this all may be null and void. But I doubt anything I have posted would have been nerfed. Its all he has.

 

[24K]

He can still tick throw almost anywhere in the 21122 string. Or special cancel anything really.

I think its:
21.
211.
2112.
21122.

Those are the points I feel I have been doing them at. I never really pay attention to it. Since I only decide what I will do after I see if the 21 hits or gets blocked. You don't even need to rush the string. You can do 211 and then 22. So if you are wanting to stop it early you aren't rushing to get the next commands in before he passes the point you wanted to cancel out of it. I play on a stick so maybe its easier for me. The one thumb on a pad might make it tough to concentrate on hit confirming the string and then deciding what your next step is and then still having to get back work.

On top of that. There aren't many EB's I see in tournaments. Or even online anymore. So people aren't always clued up on what others think are his flaws. The fact that 21122 has gaps makes it a great mind game tool for us. People feel to safe against that string.

 

[Ghosty1981]

He can still tick throw almost anywhere in the 21122 string. Or special cancel anything really.

I think its:
21.
211.
2112.
21122.

He can only tick throw off of 21 in that list. He can't even burn meter to get grabs on the others.

He can special cancel, sure, but only the lows are moderately useful (and easily blocked or punished). If the opponent isn't sure when you will make a move in 21122 all they have to do is block low and they will only eat 14% damage plus chip at worst, or take the advantage if you don't grab on 21.

As for cancelling into SoS2, there is no reason for your opponent to ever be standing and not blocking, so it is only useful as a gimmick against someone that always tries to jump over SoS3. It will wiff on a neutral or blocking crouch, and the worst thing a crouch blocking opponent has to worry about is 21~grab.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

That would essentially make 21122 a mid starter, the one thing folks on this forum have been asking for since the game came out.

No. Don't bunch me up with such radicals.

 

[cambros22]

Erron Black's lack of a mid is starting to annoy me. Maybe I am a noob for asking this question, but what the hell am I supposed to do after a d1 on hit? 21122 is a high so the opponent can just mash out his low poke. I can't do f13,f242,b33,grab or 112 either. So can someone please enlighten me on this? Thanks

11 jails from a d1. It has always been that way

 

[cambros22]

I realize now I may have misunderstood the prior post about jailing.

Yes, after a d1 hit you can go into 21122 and they must block, but that doesn't give EB much to work with either.

You have 211~grab and you are in the same spot you were with a d1~grab, with the same risk of a full combo punish. 21122~exSG is easily blocked (or jumped in the case of 2112, at the cost of a knockdown and minimal health lost) and gives EB nothing but a burned bar. 21122~SoS3 gets jumped and punished hard.

So d1 into 21122 on hit leaves you more likely to get a full combo punish than to damage them, and if they know how to play and you guess right on your grab that is 13% and chip damage at best.

When EB had multiple tick throws out of 21122 it was a nice tool. Now, not so much.

His command grab is way better than prepatch. and those ticks were easier to option-select since his grab was way slower ( I think 17 frames). Now that its 13 frames he gets to actually use it in neutral since its range is so far. Hell it catches some backdashes depending on the spacing. I get more mileage out of it now than I did prepatch.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Erron Black's lack of a mid is starting to annoy me. Maybe I am a noob for asking this question, but what the hell am I supposed to do after a d1 on hit? 21122 is a high so the opponent can just mash out his low poke. I can't do f13,f242,b33,grab or 112 either. So can someone please enlighten me on this? Thanks

d1 is +13 on hit meaning you can jail anything that's under 13f startup so 21122 does jail

 

[24K]

He can only tick throw off of 21 in that list. He can't even burn meter to get grabs on the others.

He can special cancel, sure, but only the lows are moderately useful (and easily blocked or punished). If the opponent isn't sure when you will make a move in 21122 all they have to do is block low and they will only eat 14% damage plus chip at worst, or take the advantage if you don't grab on 21.

As for cancelling into SoS2, there is no reason for your opponent to ever be standing and not blocking, so it is only useful as a gimmick against someone that always tries to jump over SoS3. It will wiff on a neutral or blocking crouch, and the worst thing a crouch blocking opponent has to worry about is 21~grab.

Oh man. I was not aware of that. Has ot been that way for a while. I haven't bothered using the command grab any time other than after the 21 since he stopped being able to grab them out of the air on the launch in that string. So I haven't ever noticed if it was nerfed. I can say I haven't had many people just block it low. But then SOS3 normally gives me enough push back to keep me safe against most. And only armoured moves or metered burned moves will get through the gap. In which case you will more often then not end the string on the 21 when your opponent is blocking and has meter. Which will teach them you end early. And you can then throw in an SOS3 and catch them with it.

The upshot works great. If they are crouch blocking and want to poke you there isn't much many characters can do in the way of real damage. So its worth the risk on a crouching opponent. I mostly see people jump or stand and try poke anyway. But the only thing to worry about is armoured or meter burned moves and 9 out of 10 times those moves are standing and up shot breaks most of the faster moves and SOS3 is quick enough to get the rest. Except the odd exception. I very often just back dash. Or jump back and buffer SOS3 in the air. Can we still buffer things in the air after this latest patch. The thing is though unless they ride out the whole string before making a move, they will have to make a read on when you will cancel out of it. And that's the magic. And of course we can block after the string ourselves. I often see people eat shit because they are trying to get massive damage combos with EB. I play him as a lots of short burst attack type characters. He has some cool mobility options that help us keep the space we want. So we can pick when we are going on. The way I see it is 21122 should only be blocked if we miss time, yolo the dam thing raw, or they are expecting it and are waiting to grab block. And then again, command grab a few times after 21 on block. And of they never show they can defend against it you always use it as your go to if they block. And when they do learn to block it you have your other options to catch them pressing buttons.

 

[Ghosty1981]

The problem with 21122 is that the opponent doesn't have to read in order to beat the cancels. If EB doesn't grab then the opponent can just crouch block until the grenade or Stance come out. Stance, both 2 and 3, can be poked out of easily and doesn't have a flash like exSG. If they don't want to risk it then they can crouch block the whole string and never be at a disadvantage.

Sure, people that don't know the matchup (don't crouch block) can lose to EB. Anyone that knows enough to crouch block, however, has eliminated EBs gameplan almost entirely.

Furthermore, with the new stamina drain EB can't keep pushing them back and rushing in anymore, and his overhead is 23 frames now so he can't Oki. You can grab and knock them down, but you can no longer force them to read what you will do on wake-up. If you knock them back you will have to use all of your stamina to get in, and you won't be able to follow up with a combo if they get pushed back by any combos as you won't have the stamina to rush in again.

Gunslinger is better than the other variations by far, but the weaknesses are glaring and easy to take advantage of. When EB had tick throws he could force opponents to respect 21122 and all its options, but now it is pretty much just lows that push the opponent back and make EB super vulnerable to counters.

 

[24K]

I see what your saying. I was not aware he lost all his tick throws. Which kind of makes my point pointless, if they don't ever have to react then you never get to condition them and take advantage of it. If they can just crouch block everything then there is no point to bother. But you do get the chip. And SOS3 is still a good ender unless the opponent has a far reaching or fast advancing move to go through the gap. But you still have 21 command grab. Which you can hit confirm on block. Which means he still plays exactly the same except different. Same same. But different. But still same same. At worst there are a few characters you may not want to use 21122 against. And that's fine. Because he can still do damage without it. Which brings it back to how I like to play him. Lots of medium damage combos that irritate. Confirming the 21122 string. And not using the string unless I am expecting it to land. EB Gunslinger may not be top tier in many peoples eyes, but he has so many options against so many of the cast that he is top tier if played in a way that suits him. As far as I remember a well timed SOS3 or up shot in the corner breaks every bodies armoured wakeups. But its 1 AM here and I cant even remember if I got the update before the current update. Can somebody give me a quick explanation what happened to the stamina in the update. The way I see it is that he is tournament viable. And that's why I still dig him. NB: How many people play against him waiting for the 21122 string. If they are always waiting for it it means they aren't playing their game. If it never comes you are at the advantage in the mental game. I have played for hours sometimes before using the string. It fucks with peoples heads. I cant wait to update now and try figure him out again. But perhaps its time we shifted back to Outlaw and started Tarkartan Stabbing busters.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Oh man, you have been away a while. Everyone has double armor now, except on launchers which have no armor. SoS2 and SoS3 can now be armored through every time by every character.

Erron Black has chip damage and that's about it. I play him the same way you describe, but without the ability to sustain a rush-down you can only do one light Combo before your stamina is out and they get to beat on you. It is a sad time for EB in the new meta. You can still beat people, especially if they don't know the matchup, but he is very easy to neutralize if they do.

Since you may not have seen the changes, starting a run takes 25% now, and getting hit while running takes away 50% on top of that. So you can't push them back and rush in repeatedly. Also, his OH is unusable on anyone that knows the character, as it is 50% slower and obvious. If you know Leatherface, it is almost as slow as Killer/Pretty Lady's OH chop.