Match-up Discussion Ermac Matchup Discussion Thread

[Konqrr]

I realize that there might be a matchup thread already in this forum, but the point of this thread is to discuss matchups to make the Matchup Chart as accurate as possible.

The Matchup Chart thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart

When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

The current Matchup Chart for Ermac is as follows:
5-5 vs Baraka
4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
4-6 vs Cyrax
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
3-7 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Kabal
4-6 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
6-4 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
4-6 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
3-7 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker
6-4 vs Sub-Zero

Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!

6-4 vs Cyber Sub-Zero ??
5-5 vs Liu Kang ??
6.5-3.5 vs Sub-Zero ??

 

[QjonPL]

Ermac - Mileena
at least 5.5-4.5 for Ermac. Why?
Mileena can't punish full range TKP (or can she? :[ ), in fireball wars Ermac wins trades by 2% of dmg and can close the distance to get in TKP zone, punishes both her teleports and roller for >33%, her d+4 isn't very effective in this matchup because of TKS and TKP.

 

[Hagen]

according to the MU list, Mac doesnt even seem to be close to the top tier chars, as he was suppoesed to be, for quite a long time...

 

[Konqrr]

Ermac - Mileena
at least 5.5-4.5 for Ermac. Why?
Mileena can't punish full range TKP (or can she? :[ ), in fireball wars Ermac wins trades by 2% of dmg and can close the distance to get in TKP zone, punishes both her teleports and roller for >33%, her d+4 isn't very effective in this matchup because of TKS and TKP.

Very few characters, if any, can punish full range bf1.

Mileena can dash forward and roll punish projectiles right? If Ermac's fireball hits her out of her roll, then nevermind, but she can do this against nearly the entire cast.

Ermac is also one of the few characters who can punish her telekick and :en telekick heavily.

Ermac should be higher on the chart. That is the reason for these threads, to discuss matchups to come up with more accurate numbers as the game evolves.

 

[VIDA]

Very few characters, if any, can punish full range bf1.

Im pretty sure the few that can for any1 wondering are NW and Kabal with EX charge and EX nomad. Stryker can pistol punish, not a kombo punish tho.

5-5 Smoke...midscreen Ermac owns, yet full screen its Smoke, but getting Mid isnt that difficult for Ermac here. Id go 6-4. I wonder if against Sub its more than 6-4 since Ice Clone has no usage here whatsoever. His projectile is real slow and can be TP'ed easily on reaction. Ermac can afford to spam a forceball a bit, but thatll prob change once Subby's silde goes under projectiles. Altho, even if it does regular slide wont go fullscreen? EX would but its still risky and costs meter while Ermac can easily hoard his.

Slide can punish TKP when at 3/4 range but so what? Its heck for him to get in there in the first place and with his all around slowness Ermac can just dash in/jump in for a throw, f4, 31 on block or hit...etc. Feels like a 7-3.

NW might be a 7-3, NW just has an answer for everything. He's got reflect, arrow and lightning to prevent Ermac's average projectile/fullscreen game. TKP is punsihed by EX charge, and I think even regular charge will at least get him in off a blocked TKP. Def feel like playing Ermac against him is real uphill. Even Kabal is maybe a 4-6.

3-7 Cage? Is that cause of EX shadow leg? I remember when it was seen the other way around around the PDP tourney lol. Outside of using Meter Cage has heck trying to get in. Sindel should be 6-4 for Ermac since she doesnt have that much of an adv at fullscreen, esp when she starts afs that are punished on reaction to Ermac TP's into 30%. Mid screen she aint got no answer and inside he's got more tools.

 

[Ulturas]

I don't know much about this but I personally think Ermacs toughest matchup (at least for me anyway) has to be Cyber Sub against a player that knows how to play so for me it's 3-7 main reason being you literally have to recovery roll wakeup every time against his rushdowns I can never get off a wakeup attack (online), with Cyber Subs mixups and Ermacs very few safe strings I find fighting Cyber Sub the toughest matchup. Zoning is also out of the question because Dive Kick is like a freakin homing missile from across the stage... It's hard to air punish when Cyber Subs Dive kick is slightly faster than Ermacs TKP, all Ermacs wakeups are punishable if they whiff as well. This is just personal opinion though...

 

[HurlingDervish]

I don't think its 6-4 against liu kang. The only way it would be 6-4 would be if they threw out flying kicks every time you baited, but if they're not retarded, they wont.
IAF aren't punishable by teleport, and its risky at full-screen for Ermac to throw a fireball in between unless he starts first.

Liu kang has to get in close but he has many advancing combos that reach very far, so there's a much smaller space where Ermac would excel as a zoner than he would against other rush-down characters. Once you do get hit on block by his strings, he has so much advantage its hard to get back to the sweet spot, because TKP can be too slow and back dash doesn't go far back enough.

Seems at least 5-5

 

[HurlingDervish]

I don't know much about this but I personally think Ermacs toughest matchup (at least for me anyway) has to be Cyber Sub against a player that knows how to play so for me it's 3-7 main reason being you literally have to recovery roll wakeup every time against his rushdowns I can never get off a wakeup attack (online), with Cyber Subs mixups and Ermacs very few safe strings I find fighting Cyber Sub the toughest matchup. Zoning is also out of the question because Dive Kick is like a freakin homing missile from across the stage... It's hard to air punish when Cyber Subs Dive kick is slightly faster than Ermacs TKP, all Ermacs wakeups are punishable if they whiff as well. This is just personal opinion though...

set up a safe jump and do an empty jump in baiting a parry and lift or mix up when they guess the lift. Lots of cybers moves are unsafe I think too.

 

[Konqrr]

Im pretty sure the few that can for any1 wondering are NW and Kabal with EX charge and EX nomad. Stryker can pistol punish, not a kombo punish tho.

I meant on block. Can anyone punish bf1 on block from max range?

I wonder if against Sub its more than 6-4 since Ice Clone has no usage here whatsoever. His projectile is real slow and can be TP'ed easily on reaction. Ermac can afford to spam a forceball a bit, but thatll prob change once Subby's silde goes under projectiles. Altho, even if it does regular slide wont go fullscreen? EX would but its still risky and costs meter while Ermac can easily hoard his.

Slide can punish TKP when at 3/4 range but so what? Its heck for him to get in there in the first place and with his all around slowness Ermac can just dash in/jump in for a throw, f4, 31 on block or hit...etc. Feels like a 7-3.

Sub doesn't play the ranged game vs Ermac, he rushes him down with dash blocking until he is close then bullies him with 22. Once Sub gets Ermac in the corner, it gets kind of tricky because any special that Ermac does gets punished HARD. But it's very difficult for Sub to get Ermac to the corner. I also heard that 212~clone is safe to use vs Ermac because he can't punish clone off of this string, not sure though.

I don't think it's as bad as 7-3, but it is hard for Sub because clone is useless.

3-7 Cage? Is that cause of EX shadow leg? I remember when it was seen the other way around around the PDP tourney lol. Outside of using Meter Cage has heck trying to get in. Sindel should be 6-4 for Ermac since she doesnt have that much of an adv at fullscreen, esp when she starts afs that are punished on reaction to Ermac TP's into 30%. Mid screen she aint got no answer and inside he's got more tools.

Ermac's normals are SO slow. When Cage gets in, and he will, it's over for Ermac.

I don't know much about this but I personally think Ermacs toughest matchup (at least for me anyway) has to be Cyber Sub against a player that knows how to play so for me it's 3-7 main reason being you literally have to recovery roll wakeup every time against his rushdowns I can never get off a wakeup attack (online), with Cyber Subs mixups and Ermacs very few safe strings I find fighting Cyber Sub the toughest matchup. Zoning is also out of the question because Dive Kick is like a freakin homing missile from across the stage... It's hard to air punish when Cyber Subs Dive kick is slightly faster than Ermacs TKP, all Ermacs wakeups are punishable if they whiff as well. This is just personal opinion though...

You can punish Cyber Sub's Dive Kick 100% of the time with a lift. It completely nullifies the Dive Kick. Ermac wins this match handily, I don't know why it's listed as a losing match...maybe someone more experienced with Cyber Sub can explain? (REO? Tom Brady? Zepelli?)

I don't think its 6-4 against liu kang. The only way it would be 6-4 would be if they threw out flying kicks every time you baited, but if they're not retarded, they wont.
IAF aren't punishable by teleport, and its risky at full-screen for Ermac to throw a fireball in between unless he starts first.

Liu kang has to get in close but he has many advancing combos that reach very far, so there's a much smaller space where Ermac would excel as a zoner than he would against other rush-down characters. Once you do get hit on block by his strings, he has so much advantage its hard to get back to the sweet spot, because TKP can be too slow and back dash doesn't go far back enough.

Seems at least 5-5

Like the Cage matchup, once Liu gets in, Ermac's normals are so slow that he loses. Ermac has to do unsafe moves like lift or push to check the Liu player and if it gets blocked, he eats 35-40%.

 

[VIDA]

I meant on block. Can anyone punish bf1 on block from max range?



Ermac's normals are SO slow. When Cage gets in, and he will, it's over for Ermac.

I was actually talking about block as well. Pretty sure its happened at max range when Ive played with him. NW and Kabal players have told me they think its this way as well. There is a way to test in practice mode tho. I should try and check it out.

As for slow normals yeah that makes sense. Seems f4 has no use if the opp just blocks low in close I guess since its one of the slow ones, and Cage and LK for example can punish it hard on block I think.

 

[Ulturas]

You can punish Cyber Sub's Dive Kick 100% of the time with a lift. It completely nullifies the Dive Kick. Ermac wins this match handily, I don't know why it's listed as a losing match...maybe someone more experienced with Cyber Sub can explain? (REO? Tom Brady? Zepelli?)

Fair enough I'll have to try it out never knew TL did that :| learn something new everyday though I guess xD. My only issue is with the Cyber Subs rushdowns of 11, 34 slide and 21 1+2 mixup spamming (not sure if it has frame advantage or not..) but it seems very safe online I can't figure out when to punish those particular strings with Ermac. If I zone hardcore, which I'm not a big fan of even though Ermac is a particularly effective zoning character, it's around 5-5 with Cyber Sub. But with that said if TL mitigates divekick as you've said then it does make more sense that it would be a winning matchup.

 

[Konqrr]

Fair enough I'll have to try it out never knew TL did that :| learn something new everyday though I guess xD. My only issue is with the Cyber Subs rushdowns of 11, 34 slide and 21 1+2 mixup spamming (not sure if it has frame advantage or not..) but it seems very safe online I can't figure out when to punish those particular strings with Ermac. If I zone hardcore, which I'm not a big fan of even though Ermac is a particularly effective zoning character, it's around 5-5 with Cyber Sub. But with that said if TL mitigates divekick as you've said then it does make more sense that it would be a winning matchup.

If CSZ can't dive kick because you destroy him if he does, how is he getting in on you? bf1 keeps him at bay. If he does a teleport, you get a free lift. Only way he gets in is if he tricks you into thinking that he is going to dive kick and doesn't.

 

[Ulturas]

If CSZ can't dive kick because you destroy him if he does, how is he getting in on you? bf1 keeps him at bay. If he does a teleport, you get a free lift. Only way he gets in is if he tricks you into thinking that he is going to dive kick and doesn't.

I mean eventually all characters get on you man just inevitable lol just when he does those are the kinda strings he does is what I mean . But yea he does do fake dive kick teleports on me as well, the guy I vs that consistently beats me is quite a good CSZ player and I'm still fairly new to Ermac so I don't know as much as you man, thanks for the tips though it'll definitely improve my game .

 

[MKF30]

I definitely think C. Sub gives Ermac a tough time or can...but Ermac SHOULD win that match up more times then not. A big trick well...not a trick but a tactic to fighting C.Sub's is block his dive kicks, and it's a free combo for ermac, punish with TKS, into combo.

Raiden and KL by far give Ermac the roughest time...especially KL. I've come to learn to deal with Raiden's a lot better and easier then KL's believe it or not...maybe it's just me, but as hard as Raiden is, if you teleport while he does his, he eats damage every time...KL, not so much. I'd rather just anticipate his and uppercut.

I think Raiden vs. Ermac, Raiden will most likely win most but Ermac if he's good can compete with him.

Ermac vs. KL, no doubt KL will win most of those match ups...

Reptile vs. Ermac, while Reptile does give Ermac a hard time Ermac can compete with this match up if he stays far, you can outzone Reptile. Online is bs with this match up since the lag helps Reptile....

I know it's only one day, day and half but Freddy IMO does bad against Ermac....I played a few people who were doing 45%-50% combos last night with Freddy with Ermac and they were hardly touching me....his TKP has priority over Fred's teleports bigtime.

 

[Big Frog]

The only one I don't like is 5-5 Sonya. She has great pressure but Ermac's wake ups alone own this match up. Granted I'm not playing Chefs & Mortys everyday, but from what I've experienced I think it's 6-4. Some of you might disagree with that though.

 

[HurlingDervish]

I still think KL vs Ermac is a pretty even match up. Any teleport from KL can be uppercutted into a big ass combo. Just gotta watch out for dive kicks and stay away from 24hats.

 

[Big Frog]

Yeah the nullifying of teleports is huge, but it's just the up close game that gets me. If you can uberzone "His Hatness" than I agree with you. Otherwise it's pretty scary.

 

[Konqrr]

The only one I don't like is 5-5 Sonya. She has great pressure but Ermac's wake ups alone own this match up. Granted I'm not playing Chefs & Mortys everyday, but from what I've experienced I think it's 6-4. Some of you might disagree with that though.

Ermac's wakeups are nullified by crossup pressure and if you do wakeup lift or push while she is within jump distance, you lose anywhere between 35-50%. I wouldn't say Ermac's wakeups own at all against a smart player.

 

[Big Frog]

Yeah that's true.

 

[Rude]

It has been my experience, both on and offline, that Johnny Cage is probably one of the worst match-ups Ermac can have. The Kung Lao match-up, and most other match-ups, are doable but vary in degree of difficulty. Other than Mister Cage, the other problematic character is Noob Saibot. One strategy I've found that works fairly well for them is to wait until they try and zone you with running shadows, and then teleport punch before the shadow is finished running at you. This gives you a window for TKL and whatever else you fancy from there.

 

[MKF30]

I still think KL vs Ermac is a pretty even match up. Any teleport from KL can be uppercutted into a big ass combo. Just gotta watch out for dive kicks and stay away from 24hats.

Honestly, I think KL still has an edge against Ermac even with his nerfs...once he gets in close to anyone, his 12hat nonsense stuns you and he can keep rushing you down which is bs imo....from a far, I think it's more even up close though? Not even close, KL owns Ermac up close.

 

[Enenra]

Crap, a lot more bad match ups then I expected. I suspect if he gets Scorpion's ex tele, then a lot of those match ups will jump up at least a point. Well, with the rush down characters anyway. I've never struggled much against CSZ. I'd have to agree with the newer stats posted in yellow.

 

[seoulspirit]

I think Ermac vs Smoke is 6-4 atleast. 3,1 beats out Smoke's 3,D1,2 spam, and smoke's is semi-reliant on his TP, which is easily punishable

 

[MKF30]

Yeah, I agree Smoke can give Ermac trouble but I do believe Ermac has that little extra something that gives him the edge over Smoke 6-4 or 7-3 around there.

 

[Creepy00]

How you guys do against Kung lao from your experiences? Feel like Kung lao stops Ermac s game drastically. :/